Fin rot or something else?

Zella616

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My partner and I are new to the saltwater hobby (he did freshwater aquariums some years back, so he's a bit rusty as well).

We started a nano fluval 13.5g 6 weeks ago, live sand and and live rock, Dr Tim's start up. Did the whole cycle until ammonia and nitrates were clear. We got a juvenile royal gramma basslet, and 5 days later (5 days ago now) a striped orange shrimp goby and a tiger pistol shrimp - also both juveniles.

I know the goby/shrimp decided they liked the cavern the gramma has been hiding in a few days ago, and the goby has driven the gramma out a few times (took about 3 rounds of "why is the gramma in this tiny crevasse??" to figure it out). I'm fairly sure she has an aggression nip on her back that was new yesterday evening. We already planned to switch up the tank to separate them better this weekend, but we're moving that up to this afternoon.

In the meantime, I noticed the gramma had a bit of a shredded side fin a day or so after we got her (So before the others were added). I've been keeping an eye on it, and it suddenly was worse last night. My partner noticed last night that there was white on the fin, and a patch on the back fin as well. He though ick - I went digging hard and suspect fin rot on top of the suspected aggression. No white sand-like spots anywhere, but white patches on fins. I watched the goby during the morning feeding, and I suspect he might have some of the top of his sail on his back as well. No problems with eating right now. I can't say if they are hiding more, since the fish are still newish and skiddish. I have not noticed the gramma flashing (?) Or scraping against rock per se... she does like the tiny crevasse, and she does hide against the rocks.

Tank parameters (just did a very thorough check of *everything*)
Temp - currently 76, typically was 77-78. We're fine-tuning a fan to keep that steadier and bit cooler.
Ammonia alert badge shows safe (under .02), hanna checker however said .08 (it's the first time I used this vs a chem test, is it possible I messed up?)
Nitrite: .3-8 (chemical test), 0-1 (strip test)
Nitrate: 25-50 (chemical), 25-40 (strip)
Ph: 8-8.4 (strip)
Iron: 0 (strip)
Copper: 0 (strip)
Chlorine: 0 (strip)
General hardness: 150-300 (strip)
Total alkalinity: 180 (strip)
Carbon hardness: 40 (strip)

A 50% water changed is already planned for this afternoon as well. The nitrites went up the last few days - it's been holding steady under .3, and closer to .1 before this. We're also fine tuning how much to feed, I suspect he fed a bit too much for a few days when goby/shrimp were added.

I'm adding pictures of both. Gramma has the white on the right side fin, and the top of her back fin. Goby I've only noticed on the top of his sail, but he's more elusive to see more of his body. At least he holds still better for pictures!

What would be the treatment here? We don't have a quarantine tank, nor the means to buy and set one up. We literally were discussing a second tank a few days ago, and an hour later my partners truck broke - we're looking at thousands to fix. So please be kind about the lack of QT/medical tank, this was a huge unexpected financial set back.

Thank you! I have videos as well if those are needed.

VideoCapture_20240912-104942.jpg VideoCapture_20240912-105008.jpg VideoCapture_20240912-105043.jpg
 

Jekyl

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Hard to see in the photos. Try taking more using just white lighting.
 
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vetteguy53081

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My partner and I are new to the saltwater hobby (he did freshwater aquariums some years back, so he's a bit rusty as well).

We started a nano fluval 13.5g 6 weeks ago, live sand and and live rock, Dr Tim's start up. Did the whole cycle until ammonia and nitrates were clear. We got a juvenile royal gramma basslet, and 5 days later (5 days ago now) a striped orange shrimp goby and a tiger pistol shrimp - also both juveniles.

I know the goby/shrimp decided they liked the cavern the gramma has been hiding in a few days ago, and the goby has driven the gramma out a few times (took about 3 rounds of "why is the gramma in this tiny crevasse??" to figure it out). I'm fairly sure she has an aggression nip on her back that was new yesterday evening. We already planned to switch up the tank to separate them better this weekend, but we're moving that up to this afternoon.

In the meantime, I noticed the gramma had a bit of a shredded side fin a day or so after we got her (So before the others were added). I've been keeping an eye on it, and it suddenly was worse last night. My partner noticed last night that there was white on the fin, and a patch on the back fin as well. He though ick - I went digging hard and suspect fin rot on top of the suspected aggression. No white sand-like spots anywhere, but white patches on fins. I watched the goby during the morning feeding, and I suspect he might have some of the top of his sail on his back as well. No problems with eating right now. I can't say if they are hiding more, since the fish are still newish and skiddish. I have not noticed the gramma flashing (?) Or scraping against rock per se... she does like the tiny crevasse, and she does hide against the rocks.

Tank parameters (just did a very thorough check of *everything*)
Temp - currently 76, typically was 77-78. We're fine-tuning a fan to keep that steadier and bit cooler.
Ammonia alert badge shows safe (under .02), hanna checker however said .08 (it's the first time I used this vs a chem test, is it possible I messed up?)
Nitrite: .3-8 (chemical test), 0-1 (strip test)
Nitrate: 25-50 (chemical), 25-40 (strip)
Ph: 8-8.4 (strip)
Iron: 0 (strip)
Copper: 0 (strip)
Chlorine: 0 (strip)
General hardness: 150-300 (strip)
Total alkalinity: 180 (strip)
Carbon hardness: 40 (strip)

A 50% water changed is already planned for this afternoon as well. The nitrites went up the last few days - it's been holding steady under .3, and closer to .1 before this. We're also fine tuning how much to feed, I suspect he fed a bit too much for a few days when goby/shrimp were added.

I'm adding pictures of both. Gramma has the white on the right side fin, and the top of her back fin. Goby I've only noticed on the top of his sail, but he's more elusive to see more of his body. At least he holds still better for pictures!

What would be the treatment here? We don't have a quarantine tank, nor the means to buy and set one up. We literally were discussing a second tank a few days ago, and an hour later my partners truck broke - we're looking at thousands to fix. So please be kind about the lack of QT/medical tank, this was a huge unexpected financial set back.

Thank you! I have videos as well if those are needed.

VideoCapture_20240912-104942.jpg VideoCapture_20240912-105008.jpg VideoCapture_20240912-105043.jpg
This is aggression damage and likely from an occupant within tank such as clown. I dont see Goby as a suspect
 
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Uncle99

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Got in a fight, took some hits.
Typical for that fish.

Pretty resilient fish the RG, I’d do nothing but watch him and identify if the aggression does not subside.

If he eats he’s fine. May take a day or two settle.

They can be insistent that a crevice is “theirs” (sometimes to their demise)

Good luck.
 
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Zella616

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This is aggression damage and likely from an occupant within tank such as clown. I dont see Goby as a suspect
We don't have a clown, and my partner said that the gramma was by herself in the tank when he bought her?
I need to cut the video down, but today after I posted this I actually caught the goby chasing her in the cave, and fairly certain nipped (mouth wide open and got right up to her - they went behind a rock right as goby caught up so I'm not 100% sure). The shrimp runs from her shadow, so that only leaves the goby for the new damage.
 
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Zella616

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Got in a fight, took some hits.
Typical for that fish.

Pretty resilient fish the RG, I’d do nothing but watch him and identify if the aggression does not subside.

If he eats he’s fine. May take a day or two settle.

They can be insistent that a crevice is “theirs” (sometimes to their demise)

Good luck.
Good to know. I'm at work, but my partner is already changing the tank to create more hidey spaces and get them separated better.
She is definitely still eating and far as I can tell acting the same - though hiding in the tiny spot more due to being chased out of the big cave.
 
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Jekyl

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We don't have a clown, and my partner said that the gramma was by herself in the tank when he bought her?
I need to cut the video down, but today after I posted this I actually caught the goby chasing her in the cave, and fairly certain nipped (mouth wide open and got right up to her - they went behind a rock right as goby caught up so I'm not 100% sure). The shrimp runs from her shadow, so that only leaves the goby for the new damage.
YouTube links work the best
 
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Uncle99

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Good to know. I'm at work, but my partner is already changing the tank to create more hidey spaces and get them separated better.
She is definitely still eating and far as I can tell acting the same - though hiding in the tiny spot more due to being chased out of the big cave.
Great idea!

They have to work it out!
 
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Zella616

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Hard to see in the photos. Try taking more using just white lighting.
Ok - my partner did a water change and changed the tank set up. Gramma hid for a while, but finally came and and was the perfect angle for a picture of the fin that I'm concerned about - the white shows up much better.
I'm sure she's quite stressed right now, but she was eating well a few hours ago according to my partner. He also went to the LFS that we bought everything from, and the LFS owner said aggression as well, but that was based off the earlier picture.
 

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Zella616

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Well, not just aggression. She's swimming strange (twirled, a few panic laps), attempted to get into a hole into the back area twice, laying on the sand when she's not hiding, hiding then coming out with the erratic swimming, and even got caught against where the water goes into the back at the top. Most of it looked like she was trying to find a more secure hiding spot and was stressed by all of the hiding spots she had found - none of them were big enough to fully hide her. We were able to herd her into her old cave (now goby/pistol shrimp free), turned off the lights and are hoping that a quiet night will help. She's actually under a bit of rock where the shrimp had originally dug before moving out of the cave... I guess we'll see. I read enough threads of erratic behavior to know not to be too hopeful.

At this point, is this something to be worried that the goby might pick up on as well?
 
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