DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley,

I have a 265 gallon system and would like to start dosing ammonium bicarbonate. It seems like your solution is far below the maximum solubility of ammonium bicarbonate. Is there any issue with mixing it roughly 10x stronger? Wikipedia suggests 24.8g/100mL at 25C is the maximum solubility.

I have limited sump space and it would be ideal to not have to have a gallon jug for this solution. I would be dosing in the middle of my sump so I think the odds of a high concentration solution affecting fish prior to circulation seems low.

Thanks!

It may well be much more soluble. I just picked a convenient concentration for dosing a typical tank, but making it more concentrated for a big tank seems fine.

 

[TastyScrants]

Started dosing ammonium bicarbonate today.

I’ve started with 0.1ppm ammonia a day split over 24 doses.

After the first dose within 10minutes I seemed to have more polyp extension. My stylophoras polyps looked a lot thicker than usual too.

I’ll check in with my NO3 tomorrow then check in again after a week to see if the size of the dose can be increased.

Thanks for the directions Randy, it’s helpful. Looking forward to seeing the impact to my goniapora (bottom right of FTS), which have been closed up for quite a long while (I’ve checked everything)

FTS before starting ammonium dosing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Started dosing ammonium bicarbonate today.

I’ve started with 0.1ppm ammonia a day split over 24 doses.

After the first dose within 10minutes I seemed to have more polyp extension. My stylophoras polyps looked a lot thicker than usual too.

I’ll check in with my NO3 tomorrow then check in again after a week to see if the size of the dose can be increased.

Thanks for the directions Randy, it’s helpful. Looking forward to seeing the impact to my goniapora (bottom right of FTS), which have been closed up for quite a long while (I’ve checked everything)

FTS before starting ammonium dosing.

Sounds good. Keep us updated.

 

[lucky7]

Could anyone tell me what a good starting dose ( in ml ) would be for the dr Tim’s ammonium be in a 120g system ?

 

[East1]

Randy,

If I'm switching from Ammonium Chloride to Bicarbonate, based on your intial post I've extracted from below, does this mean I need 1.48 times the dry weight to make up the same amount of ammonium added? (20/13.5 = 1.481)
If you have the time sometime are you able to explain or point me in the direction of understanding how the molecular weight might help with calculations like this?

For completeness I've been wanting to switch because on the soft coral tank I find an imbalance of alk starts to cause a calcium buildup when just dosing AFR, and I'd rather not have to start dosing alkalinity alongside on a tank that doesn't consume much to start with.

I'm also assuming that adding KNO3 to ammonium bicarbonate won't have any adverse effects in the same way as it I've been mixing it with ammonium chloride to dose both simultaenously.

13.5 grams of ammonium chloride (about 3 - 4.6 teaspoons, varies by brand) in 1 L RO/DI water.
OR
20 grams of ammonium bicarbonate (about 4 and 3/4 teaspoons) in 1 L RO/DI water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Could anyone tell me what a good starting dose ( in ml ) would be for the dr Tim’s ammonium be in a 120g system ?

Sorry, I've not done the math for that product, and as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'd also look for a food grade product as opposed to cycling products.

It should be fairly simple to take the Dr Tim directions and drop the recommendation down from 2 ppm to 0.1 ppm.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy,

If I'm switching from Ammonium Chloride to Bicarbonate, based on your intial post I've extracted from below, does this mean I need 1.48 times the dry weight to make up the same amount of ammonium added? (20/13.5 = 1.481)
If you have the time sometime are you able to explain or point me in the direction of understanding how the molecular weight might help with calculations like this?

For completeness I've been wanting to switch because on the soft coral tank I find an imbalance of alk starts to cause a calcium buildup when just dosing AFR, and I'd rather not have to start dosing alkalinity alongside on a tank that doesn't consume much to start with.

I'm also assuming that adding KNO3 to ammonium bicarbonate won't have any adverse effects in the same way as it I've been mixing it with ammonium chloride to dose both simultaenously.

Yes to the ratio question.

molecular weight of ammonium chloride (NH4Cl) is 53.5 g/mole.

molecular weight of ammonium bicarbonate (NH4HCO3) is 79.1.

Ratio of 79.1/53/5 = 1.48

I don't recommend KNO3 to be used at all, unless you know you are potassium deficient. Sodium or calcium nitrate is safer to not risk rising potassium. The sodium nitrate (or KNO3) can be put into either of these ammonium solutions. Calcium is OK in the chloride solution, but likely not the bicarbonate.

 

[East1]

Yes to the ratio question.

molecular weight of ammonium chloride (NH4Cl) is 53.5 g/mole.

molecular weight of ammonium bicarbonate (NH4HCO3) is 79.1.

Ratio of 79.1/53/5 = 1.48

I don't recommend KNO3 to be used at all, unless you know you are potassium deficient. Sodium or calcium nitrate is safer to not risk rising potassium. The sodium nitrate (or KNO3) can be put into either of these ammonium solutions. Calcium is OK in the chloride solution, but likely not the bicarbonate.

This helps a lot, thank you!
Just for my understanding, is the difference in the two molecular weights just down to the HCO3 vs CL? so by comparing molecular weights we're adding the same amount of NH4 per ml of solution while accounting for mass changes as a result of the HCO3/CL side of the ammonium salts?

I chose KNO3 because the only other element supplements I use is the Tropic Marin K and A elements, and these don't contain potassium, but you're right I did have issues when I used a system that included potassium in the while dosing KNO3.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This helps a lot, thank you!
Just for my understanding, is the difference in the two molecular weights just down to the HCO3 vs CL? so by comparing molecular weights we're adding the same amount of NH4 per ml of solution while accounting for mass changes as a result of the HCO3/CL side of the ammonium salts?

I chose KNO3 because the only other element supplements I use is the Tropic Marin K and A elements, and these don't contain potassium, but you're right I did have issues when I used a system that included potassium in the while dosing KNO3.

Yes, it’s just the mass difference from the chloride vs bicarbonate.

 

[Makara23]

Will ammonium chloride or ammonium bicarbonate react with kalkwasser? I currently have kalk in my ATO, and would like to add ammonium to the ATO as well.

Should I use ammonium chloride or bicarbonate for this application? I'm also trying to keep the alk stable and also not drop pH.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Will ammonium chloride or ammonium bicarbonate react with kalkwasser? I currently have kalk in my ATO, and would like to add ammonium to the ATO as well.

Should I use ammonium chloride or bicarbonate for this application? I'm also trying to keep the alk stable and also not drop pH.

Both will have potential issues in kalkwasser, especially the bicarbonate, which will cause precipitation of calcium carbonate, depleting alk and calcium.

At the pH of kalkwasser, any ammonia product will readily be able to enter the gas phase and smell bad.

 

[Makara23]

Bummer, thank you for confirming. I'll continue hand-dosing ammonia.

 

[Koleswrath]

Has adding ammonium chloride to Kalkwasser mixed with vinegar been covered yet? Does it react with the calcium acetate?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Has adding ammonium chloride to Kalkwasser mixed with vinegar been covered yet? Does it react with the calcium acetate?

Aside from being more prone to evaporate and smell bad, that is ok, with or without vinegar. Keep it well closed.

 

[Blitzrunner83]

I’ve been trying to watch this thread recently but idk if I have time to read 32 pages of comments lol. I’m doing a smaller bath. I have a glass container that’s 375ml, so I mixed in 7.5ishg of ABC. Dosing at 10ml for 100gals. Couple questions.
1. Should the liquid stay clear?
2. Should I wait a set amount of time before using? (Like mixing sea salt)
3. Is there a way to know how potent it is? ( stronger small, cloudy, etc..)
4. If I pore it in my sump, will micro algae (cheato), use it up before it reaches my tank?
5. MOST IMPORTANT. What signs should I look for in my fish to know if anything is wrong with them?

Thank you!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’ve been trying to watch this thread recently but idk if I have time to read 32 pages of comments lol. I’m doing a smaller bath. I have a glass container that’s 375ml, so I mixed in 7.5ishg of ABC. Dosing at 10ml for 100gals. Couple questions.
1. Should the liquid stay clear?
2. Should I wait a set amount of time before using? (Like mixing sea salt)
3. Is there a way to know how potent it is? ( stronger small, cloudy, etc..)
4. If I pore it in my sump, will micro algae (cheato), use it up before it reaches my tank?
5. MOST IMPORTANT. What signs should I look for in my fish to know if anything is wrong with them?

Thank you!

Let’s turn this around. Is the dosing solution not clear? Which exact product did you use? The solution is good to go right away.

I would not bother testing it, but you could add 2 or 5 ppm to a sample of seawater and test that. The kit is more likely to be off than the solution.

I doubt the chaeto will get it all, but it will get some.

Your fish will be fine, but breathing hard is one thing to watch for.

 

[klc]

I used 1 liter of rodi and mixed in 20 grams of ammonium bicarbonate and I store it in an airtight container. I've been adding 10ml every 12 hours in my 120 total gallon SPS dominant tank for a week now. I was skeptical at first but after a week of dosing I can honestly say I think the corals have better polyp extension and have darkened up a bit. A few more months will be required to really say it was due to the ammonium additions so I'll keep you folks informed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I used 1 liter of rodi and mixed in 20 grams of ammonium bicarbonate and I store it in an airtight container. I've been adding 10ml every 12 hours in my 120 total gallon SPS dominant tank for a week now. I was skeptical at first but after a week of dosing I can honestly say I think the corals have better polyp extension and have darkened up a bit. A few more months will be required to really say it was due to the ammonium additions so I'll keep you folks informed.

Thanks for the update!

 

[drawman]

I used 1 liter of rodi and mixed in 20 grams of ammonium bicarbonate and I store it in an airtight container. I've been adding 10ml every 12 hours in my 120 total gallon SPS dominant tank for a week now. I was skeptical at first but after a week of dosing I can honestly say I think the corals have better polyp extension and have darkened up a bit. A few more months will be required to really say it was due to the ammonium additions so I'll keep you folks informed.

I have to agree. I started dosing ammonium chloride 5/25/24 and several acros that were pale with no or little polyp extension have colored up and polyps are fully out. Last test of nitrate was still zero (tested last week). I'm also adding TM phos-feed FWIW.

 

[SliceGolfer]

This has become my preferred method of dosing N. Very easy to dial in once you start showing positive amounts in testing.