DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you think I'ts healthier to reduce or even stop carbon dosing?

What do you think about the ammonium quantity? 12x2mL a day?

What do you think about the dosing ammonium schedule with daylight preference?

When you don't do water changes, and you do ICP tests, is there any possible BAD thing accumulation in water that you can't see? Example: If you don't do water changes, you will need to use Ozone or GAC to remove some bad chemichals from water...

Any recommendation or suggestion will be very welcome!

If the goal of carbon dosing is coral food via bacteria, that's a fine plan.

I don't think there's any clear limitation on the ammonia dosed if it is adequately spread out. Of course, one can monitor ammonia, but I expect nitrifying bacteria will multiply as needed, and rising nitrate will ultimately be the limitation.

I don't have much opinion on time of day issues with respect to ammonia dosing. I don't think one needs to turn the skimmer off, and I wouldn't worry about timing it with respect to dosing, as I'm not convinced the numbers of skimmable bacteria change immediately with the dosing.

There are things that can accumulate, including organics such as toxins.

 

[BigTimeIssues]

How long before dosing the 2.3ml per 26 gallons per day might one notice a rise in Nitrate? And what amount would you increase if no response in Nitrate level is had?

Currently I'm up to 10ml per day total(130 gallons literal volume). Started slow as I've never had a lack of Nitrate issue until now. They have been zero for a couple weeks.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How long before dosing the 2.3ml per 26 gallons per day might one notice a rise in Nitrate? And what amount would you increase if no response in Nitrate level is had?

Currently I'm up to 10ml per day total(130 gallons literal volume). Started slow as I've never had a lack of Nitrate issue until now. They have been zero for a couple weeks.

If you don’t see it the next day, the organisms consumed it.

 

[BigTimeIssues]

Another question. I believe you was saying that .1 ppm ammonia could be dosed 2 to 3 times per day to achieve a result with raising Nitrates. I just want to make sure I understood that correctly.

I have 130 gallons of water. I'm dosing 30ml per day for 3 days now and my Nitrate is 1.5ppm. I'm looking to get to 5 ppm.

Fish seem normal. Ammonia test shows zero. I know it isn't gonna show .1ppm, I was making sure it wasn't accumulating in high concentrations.

I'm using amm bicarbonate. 20 grams (with a scale) in 1 liter of rodi water. (Also measured with a scale, 1000 grams) dosing 30ml Per day.

I am safe to move forward with higher doses?

Sorry if you've answered this.. I couldn't find it but I also didn't read every page.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Another question. I believe you was saying that .1 ppm ammonia could be dosed 2 to 3 times per day to achieve a result with raising Nitrates. I just want to make sure I understood that correctly.

I have 130 gallons of water. I'm dosing 30ml per day for 3 days now and my Nitrate is 1.5ppm. I'm looking to get to 5 ppm.

Fish seem normal. Ammonia test shows zero. I know it isn't gonna show .1ppm, I was making sure it wasn't accumulating in high concentrations.

I'm using amm bicarbonate. 20 grams (with a scale) in 1 liter of rodi water. (Also measured with a scale, 1000 grams) dosing 30ml Per day.

I am safe to move forward with higher doses?

Sorry if you've answered this.. I couldn't find it but I also didn't read every page.

Yes, I expect dosing more is fine.

 

[PeterErc]

Randy, I was going to bring it up in your other ammonia thread, but I believe this thread is more on point.

I have been dosing 60-80 ml ammonium bicarbonate mixed in a gallon of water every three or 4 days in 150 total gallon.

Nitrate hovers light orange on API kit. Good enough for my concerns. Whether it, s 5,10, or 50 mg/l I don’t care. If test results are yellow increase dose.

Coral response has been positive. Along with water glass, I think you are on to something. Polyp extension on SPS and LPS is best I have ever had. Zoanthids reproduce at a very good rate as well.

I was adding vinegar to top off limewater but recently stopped to see how the bio pellets handle the ammonia dosing. I do have some patches of cyano but nothing unmanageable.

Trying to get an idea in my mind of how much one would have to dose before killing inhabitants.

If my thinking is correct to reach say an LD25 in a shrimp, one would have to dose quite a bit of the ammonium solution. Plus factoring in the rate of consumption. This is just a ballpark example.

1mg/l =17.3596 NH3 + NH4

So that would be 23ml per 100L ?

That should be enough over a couple day period to cause some permanent damage as long as it isn’t metabolized which some will be.

Hope this makes sense

Thanks

 

[bishoptf]

@Randy Holmes-Farley I see you are mentioned in the article..

Is Ammonia Dosing a Possible New Way to Provide Coral Nutrition? | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Understanding Coral Diseases as well the nutritional needs of corals has been one of the shortcomings of science and the hobby since Jacques Cousteau introduced us to the coral reefs in the 1960s.

reefbuilders.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley I see you are mentioned in the article..

Is Ammonia Dosing a Possible New Way to Provide Coral Nutrition? | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Understanding Coral Diseases as well the nutritional needs of corals has been one of the shortcomings of science and the hobby since Jacques Cousteau introduced us to the coral reefs in the 1960s.

reefbuilders.com

Thanks, I hadn't seen that.

 

[bishoptf]

Thanks, I hadn't seen that.

At first when I skimmed through it I missed your name and was going to call foul but nope it talks about you and the thread.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I knew that article would revive this thread.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If my thinking is correct to reach say an LD25 in a shrimp, one would have to dose quite a bit of the ammonium solution. Plus factoring in the rate of consumption. This is just a ballpark example.

1mg/l =17.3596 NH3 + NH4

So that would be 23ml per 100L ?

I'm a little confused by the question.

Which shrimp LD25 are you asking about? Do you have a number?

mL of what? My dosing solution recipes?

 

[Jari]

Very interesting thread! Has anyone been able to find a place to order Ammonium Bicarbonate in Europe?

 

[East1]

This thread was fascinating.

I've been running a 'hands off' tank for about 18 months now.
It runs entirely on dosing (8 channels and a suite of ionic replmeneshment and nutrients)
and doesn't get fed anything other than the occasional flake feeding perhaps once a week.


It's a 75litre tank full of coral, with 3 damselfish and a bicolour angelfish. The tank gets fed N and P and the algae and pods sustain the fish and have done so since the tank was established, however various test periods resulted in lost corals while establishing a strong dosing regime.

I've recently switched out (in the last 5 months) from Aquavitro synthesis to just KNO3 powder and have seen a decline in the 'vibrancy' of some of the corals - after a while, Nitrate accumulated and I wasn't dilligent enoughwith water testing to recognise this. It seems that dosing nitrate has a very narrow window where the corals will start to decline from too little - or too much accumulation.

I've just switched out to ammonium chloride (as I already dose an alkalinity supplement as part of the dosing regime) and so I am extremely eager to see what difference this makes in terms of coral health and any algal population shifts.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This thread was fascinating.

I've been running a 'hands off' tank for about 18 months now.
It runs entirely on dosing (8 channels and a suite of ionic replmeneshment and nutrients)
and doesn't get fed anything other than the occasional flake feeding perhaps once a week.


It's a 75litre tank full of coral, with 3 damselfish and a bicolour angelfish. The tank gets fed N and P and the algae and pods sustain the fish and have done so since the tank was established, however various test periods resulted in lost corals while establishing a strong dosing regime.

I've recently switched out (in the last 5 months) from Aquavitro synthesis to just KNO3 powder and have seen a decline in the 'vibrancy' of some of the corals - after a while, Nitrate accumulated and I wasn't dilligent enoughwith water testing to recognise this. It seems that dosing nitrate has a very narrow window where the corals will start to decline from too little - or too much accumulation.

I've just switched out to ammonium chloride (as I already dose an alkalinity supplement as part of the dosing regime) and so I am extremely eager to see what difference this makes in terms of coral health and any algal population shifts.

Thanks for the info!

Are you tracking potassium to ensure it was not rising too much?

 

[PeterErc]

I'm a little confused by the question.

Which shrimp LD25 are you asking about? Do you have a number?

mL of what? My dosing solution recipes?

Yes sir, I believe I over thunk this one.

To simplify my question, in 1L of saltwater, using your recipe with ammonium bicarbonate. How many ml would need to be dosed to have negative effects on marine life?

Thanks

 

[East1]

Thanks for the info!

Are you tracking potassium to ensure it was not rising too much?

I did a few potassium tests over the tank's lifecycle and found it was always in the expected range. I do infrequent water changes so I assume the small dosages weren't raising it more than I could change out.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I did a few potassium tests over the tank's lifecycle and found it was always in the expected range. I do infrequent water changes so I assume the small dosages weren't raising it more than I could change out.

Ok, sounds good!

 

[InactiveAcct]

@Randy Holmes-Farley have bottomed out nitrates and .25 ppm PO4, understand carbon dosing will be ineffective for PO4 control alone.

I dose NO3PO4X (diluted 10:1), do you think it’s okay to mix ammonium chloride into this dosing container to boost NO3 with goal of lowering PO4?

From the SDS, NoPox is ethanol, methanol, and acetate, believe there is only a chance of ammonium chloride reacting with the acetate but not likely in dosing container conditions - is that correct?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The concern with mixing is making the organic matter dilute enough that bacteria may grow in it. There won’t be any reactions that are a problem.

 

[Miami Reef]

@Randy Holmes-Farley have bottomed out nitrates and .25 ppm PO4, understand carbon dosing will be ineffective for PO4 control alone.

I dose NO3PO4X (diluted 10:1), do you think it’s okay to mix ammonium chloride into this dosing container to boost NO3 with goal of lowering PO4?

From the SDS, NoPox is ethanol, methanol, and acetate, believe there is only a chance of ammonium chloride reacting with the acetate but not likely in dosing container conditions - is that correct?

It will take a VERY long time with high doses to see phosphates decline with carbon dosing.

It’s much simpler to add some GFO to the tank and call it a day.

I like to control phosphate and nitrate independently. At the doses people commonly use for NOPOX, I wouldn’t be surprised if the input from foods outpace the PO4 export from carbon dosing.

I believe carbon dosing, at best, can help maintain PO4.

That being said, if you’d like to try it out, Randy’s concern is diluting it too much.