Randy Holmes-Farley
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My Tank Thread
Thanks for the info. Keep us updated.
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I dose in the sump area of my AIO so it mixes via the return pump. I will try distributing the dose over 30 seconds and see if that makes a difference. Thanks, Randy!I think dosing more times per day is a fine plan.
Polyps closing is a concern. Might they be encountering ammonia before it dilutes enough?
I think that you dosing more ammonia a once is possibly the main reason for the nitrate and phosphate dropping. The ammonia distribution from ammonia dosing is very different than it coming from fish. If someone doses a tiny amount of ammonia (relative to tank size) at once enough times during a day that it adds up to a lot of ammonia, a lot of it will probably be consumed before a significant amount reaches all the corals (this is obviously true to some extent). I am leaning towards fewer larger doses of ammonia (as long as it doesn't cause any problems) instead of more smaller doses.Some observations and feedback needed.
First, I've been dosing ammonium chloride for a month, and switched to ammonium bicarb this week. When dosing, I don't see a drop in pH, where I saw a .03 drop after dosing. Nice!
Second, I swear my Bubblegum Digi is a canary coral. Mag too low? Polyps close up. Light or flow issues? Polyps close up. After changing my dose from 4 drops chloride to 1ml bicarb, polyps close up. They come back out about 4 hours later.
Third, N03 is dropping. I don't think this is related to the switch. I try to maintain 5ppm N03, and I have seen a steady drop over the past week from 5 down to 3.2. Additionally, I've had to increase my kalk dosing as Alk has been dropping, too. My corals look very happy, and I'm seeing new growth so I assume it is related to this dosing.
I have some LPS in this tank for now (it will go into another tank soon) and these corals look happy. The Duncan I have had for 10 months (which never grew a new head) has sprouted 4 new heads in the last 30 days.
Fish do not exhibit any reaction to the dosing.
Given that N03 continues to drop (P04 has been dropping as well) I have increased my dose to 2x per day at 1ml per dose. I'm wondering how many doses I can do per day, and is it the correct expectation that N03 will rise after multiple doses? Of course I don't want to upset the balance of my tank or harm the fish. And I should mention no noticeable changes to green algae growth, and the coralline growth is starting to take off rapidly.
I think that you dosing more ammonia a once is possibly the main reason for the nitrate and phosphate dropping. The ammonia distribution from ammonia dosing is very different than it coming from fish. If someone doses a tiny amount of ammonia (relative to tank size) at once enough times during a day that it adds up to a lot of ammonia, a lot of it will probably be consumed before a significant amount reaches all the corals (this is obviously true to some extent). I am leaning towards fewer larger doses of ammonia (as long as it doesn't cause any problems) instead of more smaller doses.
I think that you dosing more ammonia at once could be causing a quick enough and large enough drop (it may be partly about where the phosphate level is) in phosphate to irritate the Bubblegum Digi. I believe I have seen this before. I would recommend mixing the ammonia dose with some water and phosphate before dosing it.
Partly because I believe that more organisms that aren't nitrifying bacteria (nitrifying bacteria don't consume much phosphate) will probably get more of the ammonia, and also the organisms would likely consume a larger amount of phosphate and/or it would allow for more areas that can better support an organism that can consume larger amounts of phosphate from more ammonia, and the organisms may significantly lower the phosphate (unlike nitrifying bacteria) from the increased growth that I believe they will likely get from the ammonia that they get.Why would the size of the individual doses impact the phosphate uptake?
Partly because I believe that more organisms that aren't nitrifying bacteria (nitrifying bacteria don't consume much phosphate) will probably get more of the ammonia, and also the organisms would likely consume a larger amount of phosphate and/or it would allow for more areas that can better support an organism that can consume larger amounts of phosphate from more ammonia, and the organisms may significantly lower the phosphate (unlike nitrifying bacteria) from the increased growth that I believe they will likely get from the ammonia that they get.
I was counting corals as some of the organisms I was talking about and also as some possible end points that could accumulate phosphate. The ammonia dosing may also increase certain bacteria in the water that I believe that a lot of corals can consume.I agree that nitrifying bacteria don’t consume much phosphate, but that’s not the endpoint. The nitrate produced will go on to drive P uptake, unless you are actually accumulating nitrate.
If I'm not mistaken, I think that you believe that adding ammonia won't, at least directly, benefit corals as long as nitrate is in an acceptable range. ....
I kind of figured the time didn't matter for the corals becayse they probably don't capture it by feeding, but absorb is through tissue.I agree with the uncertainty. I do not know if corals are more likely to take up dissolved amino acids at night. It might be true, but I don’t think one should assume it based on feeding tentacles being out since they will not be taken up by the particle capturing mechanism.
I think it’ll be difficult to convince one is better than the other based solely on visual observations in this scenario. “Better” will be influenced by what we consider something to be successful.I am yet to be convinced that dosing ammonia is better than dosing nitrate, but it may be and either seems a good plan in your case.
With ammonia, I’d always spread out dosing as much as possible.
I am yet to be convinced that dosing ammonia is better than dosing nitrate, but it may be and either seems a good plan in your case.
With ammonia, I’d always spread out dosing as much as possible.
Thank you. Curious about Ammonium Nitrate. Would that give the best of both worlds?
I think it’ll be difficult to convince one is better than the other based solely on visual observations in this scenario. “Better” will be influenced by what we consider something to be successful.
The end point for either dosing scenario is going to be nitrates (one endpoint is just faster than the other). I think the big differences are going to be that ammonia dosing carries higher risk (toxicity for fish in comparison to nitrates & dosing error), but the return is that ammonia is easier to uptake by corals and it feeds the existing nitrifying bacteria in the system.
I’ve only read about carbon dosing and havent done much research on it since I haven’t needed to do it - so I apologize if this is a dumb question lol.
Would ammonia dosing act similar to carbon dosing? At a high level it seems like it’s feeding bacteria and resulting in consumption of nutrients in the water column to convert ammonia to nitrates? I imagine carbon dosing would be more efficient since it wouldn’t result in additional nitrates. Could this method be better for reducing/controlling phosphates in a high PO4/low NO3 system?
I now believe the low polyp extension of the Bubblegum Digi was related to low P04. Looking at my test results over a week, I went from 0.06 to 0.0 and didn't notice as I test P04 every other day. I've been dosing trisodium phosphate to keep in line with my N03 level and polyps have remained extended.I dose in the sump area of my AIO so it mixes via the return pump. I will try distributing the dose over 30 seconds and see if that makes a difference. Thanks, Randy!