Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Moe K]

For ostreo I micro dosed bleach as per the old dino thread. This is controversial as it can kill your fish but corals and clean up crew seem to be unaffected. Ostreo was wiped out in less than 5 days and no sign of it returning in over a month now.

Unfortunately I didnt extend the micro dosing of bleach beyond a week and waiting to see some aquabiomics testing of its effects at that time. With that, I still have LCA but the good news is that appears to be dying down with the use of heavy microbelift special blend. The first day I dosed the microbelift I injected it into the sand with a turkey baster. Looked like my LCA was near half gone after a week. Im still battling it so only time will tell but at least the tank is somewhat presentable now.

Also pods. Lots an lots of copepods. Previously in my tank there is usually no pods in site. I am making it a mission to keep them over populated now. I ran out of live phyto weeks ago but luckily there is a lot of products that are more economical and will last longer in a fridge to keep them fed. I am trying reef enhance right now to keep the population up. I also know they like to eat phytochrome by brightwell. Smells like tomato juice.

So far I have lost no animals. SPS and LPS continue to grow. The only nuisance algae I have is bubble algae that was always a problem even before the dinos. I have not seen any sign of cyano.

 

[Mickey]

Update to my posts #12,449 and 12,451...Tank is now covered in hair algae, though little on the sand and mostly on rocks and back wall. Microscope still shows dinos mixed in (LCA, small cell amph., and prorocentrum). I'm upping my silica dosing again as I had reduced it. Corals still not doing well, BTA's not happy and not expanding. Added additional clean-up crew on 4/17 including 5 Mexican Turbos and had many losses (not sure if from shipping stress or tank conditions).

Nitrates still running 20-25 and Phosphates are continuing to drop but still high. Now at .9 down from over 1.5

Very frustrating. I started trying to manually remove as much as I can but it's tough as I have to do it in-tank. Will try peroxide dip on the corals with hair algae hoping I can save some of them. I'm considering starting AlgaeFix or Brightwell's Razor as a last resort but not sure if that will make things even worse. Any thoughts?

 

[reef’r]

Alright boys and girls looks like it’s my turn… got brown stringy stuff on my substrate and for some reason it really seems to like getting on my Zoas. Of course, P03 and N04 are zeroed out which I’m trying to remedy. I believe this is ostreopsis Dino’s can anyone confirm?

 

[Chris Coulaud]

Hello everybody!

Can you help me identify which dino is taking over my reef? The hammers are suffering. I think I'm going to lose the corals. I appreciate any advice.

Microscope video:

 

[GobyGuy]

LFS showed me in microscope what looked like Osteo… they were identical to the ones in the pic, but only one or two moving, not a comcentrated sample of water.

They also recommended a JBJ nano UV and a 50gph pump, UV is 3W approved for 30 gallons, and I double confirmed it would be sufficient for these Dino’s. Am I going to need to rebuy a proper 9W as tank is 29 long with about 2’’ sand bed & not full to rim so maybe 24/26 gallons and reading 1W per 3gal :/

 

[Moe K]

I HAVE ANNHILATED MY LCA!!! Not one demon on the scope slide today.

Been dosing Reef Brite Reef Enhance for about a month and I had a pod population explosion. I believe Reef Enhance may have been the hammer. Seems to be like pod roids lol.

I also diluted 35ml of Lynn waterglass silicates into 3000ml rodi in a container and I put it on a doser to consistently dose through the day. This seemed to speed up my diatom growth significantly. Previously I tried brightwell sponge excell in my ato but it was not as good at growing diatoms as it was sponges.

While microbelift did seem to make an improvement initially it totally feels like it is not enough. I am starting to question the whole dose a lot of bacteria method. Sure it might be good for the tank but I can't really see where bacteria can outcompete aggressive dinos. Under a scope there is never a significant amount of bacteria visible in my samples no matter how much I dose. Pods are a different story.

I am not sure but by how many pods I got running around I think they might be the main reason LCA has disappeared. That is if it is true that they eat them of course. I tried to stick with tisbe pods btw.

Here is a video of my pods on the sand at night. I dose Reef Enhance 2 to 3 times a week at night. Main pump and wavemakers off for about 30 mins to let the little gremlins feast.

 

[OsciBosci]

Should I dose or stop dosing Microbe-lift Special Blend Water Care bacteria if I have PO4 0 and NO3 0?

 

[Mickey]

Congratulations! What kind of fish do you have?

I'm battling LCA and also SCA right now along with hair algae. I've added pods periodically over the last few years and they never seem to thrive. I think my fish snack on them too much.

 

[Moe K]

Should I dose or stop dosing Microbe-lift Special Blend Water Care bacteria if I have PO4 0 and NO3 0?

If you think it is still helping, keep dosing it. If po4 and nitrate are getting low you should dose something like brightwell neonitro and neophos to raise them. You never ever want zero with or without dinos.

Congratulations! What kind of fish do you have?

I'm battling LCA and also SCA right now along with hair algae. I've added pods periodically over the last few years and they never seem to thrive. I think my fish snack on them too much.

I have 2 large corris wrasses, 2 tangs, 3 lyretail anthias, and 2 clowns. Nothing is stopping these pods.

 

[Mwatts12]

Can someone post for me a work thread example where identification of dinos species lead to a high degree of fixes in the thread (meaning goes from dinos to clean/fixed, not dinos to cyano for six months to gha for six months then back to dinos, cyclically until we just don’t hear back from them)

This thread here is a very very very low cure rate, and a very very high tradeoff invasion rate such that it seems 80% of the after pics are still an invasion of some type

Can I see a link that shows several prorocentrum jobs completed outbound (in someone’s tank who posted in a thread, don’t want to see first person testimonies about cures in the home, those apparently don’t transfer very well when tested in 600+ page work threads so I’d like see examples where methods did work.)

How about a coolia work thread, something that shows a division in cure rates between unidentified tank invasions and identified ones

I feel the methods here are about as effective as taking no action, something has to explain the lack of simple fix pictures in a decade of work logged. There’s been time to modify means here into better methods and better outcomes than we have.

Pages 600-624 are absolutely no improvement over pages 1-10.

The reason this thread is a sticky is because of popularity gained from being a sticky; there aren’t actual cures being ran it seems literally in reading the jobs. I’m not seeing changes based on advice for this method, or an improvement in any implied outbound control of dinos for other people.

If, by page 1000 there is still no significant ability to impact dinos using the means here, will the thread still be stickied and implied as the go-to method for dealing in dinos?

There are none. No changes very little impact.

 

[Mwatts12]

Time is the key

 

[cappa43]

I wanted to share a few of my own observations after battling (and beating) Dinos over about 2 years. This is intended to add a few more pieces of data to the pile. These are things that are a bit outside the box or that I haven’t seen mentioned yet in this thread or elsewhere. I’ve spent 80-100 hours lurking on this thread and this is my first post here. I started from the beginning but I haven’t made it through all 568 pages yet, so my apologies if some of this has been discussed already.

Again, these are just my own experiences – your battle may vary.

I’ve ID’d my Dinos as Prorocentrum, so my experiences may not apply to other species.

Bacteria is Key
I know that competing bacteria is not a new concept at all. But for a notion that gets thrown around a lot, there aren’t a lot of solutions being discussed of HOW to start adding bacteria that can compete with Dinos.

Inoculation – Live Rock or Live Sand: if you’re already bored by my post, I don’t blame you. But at least read this paragraph before you leave. Aside from raising phosphates above .10 this was my primary weapon for beating Dinos.

Over an 8 month span, I’ve added:

• Wonder Mud and Live Sand Activator from IPSF.com.
• Live Rock Rubble from aquabiomics.com
• Live Rock from kpaquatics.com
• Branch rock (live rock purchased from my LFS)

I know they say nothing good happens fast in a reef tank. Well, good things happened fast for me when adding new pieces of live rock. I started up another separate new tank with KP Aquatics rock (overnight premium live rock) and had a cantaloupe sized piece of rock and some rubble leftover. I threw that into the display of my main tank (with the Dinos) before I went to bed and woke up to a tank almost entirely free dinos the next day (all day).

You could write this experience off as a coincidence, but not when you can repeat it. I could knock Dinos back over and over by simply adding new pieces of live rock. Some live rock sources were more effective than others. All sources were very fresh, and were more or less straight from the ocean to my tank. I have experienced no notable results with rock seasoned at my LFS, but that isn’t something I explored deeply. I think that very mature rock, sand or gunk from a very mature reef tank may accomplish the same thing, but it of course depends on the biodiversity – which is hard to guess at. It’s not hard to guess at the biodiversity of live rock straight from the ocean on or near reefs.

Bacteria in a bottle: Before investing in actual live rock and sand, I did a lot of dosing with several bacteria in a bottle products (Macrobacter 7 and similar). It’s hard for me to feel that I’ve gotten anything other than inconclusive results. I’ve gone through periods of improvements while dosing it, and periods of decline while dosing it. That said, Macrobacter is part of my long term plan for staying on the winning side of the war on Dinos and I dose it daily. I think there are less effective ways of using it (see UV section below).

Get to Know Your Enemy
The folks in this thread have been great since day 1 in strongly advising people to ID their Dinos. However, elsewhere in other threads, social media posts, Twitters, Snapchats, etc. Dinos are treated as though the treatment is always the same. It most definitely is NOT.

Beyond just ID’ing your Dinos, observe them! Learn how they react to changes you make! You may have a mix of species, or you may have a species that is acting out of character. I would suggest setting up a diary, new Note on your phone, note in your Apex, etc. and make notes of any changes you see.

Use UV Smartly
UV is definitely considered as a major weapon against Dinos, depending on species. And in cases where it doesn’t push them back single-handedly, it’s often encouraged as one part of a multi-pronged attack. At the very least, it certainly doesn’t hurt anything, right?

I’d like to propose another take on UV. See if it helps against your Dino species. If yours goes into the water column at night, it should help; in theory at least.

My Prorocentrum did indeed move into the water column at night. You’d think I’d be slaying them with my UV but I wasn’t. I went with a very nice, oversized, overpowered UV, plumbed correctly into my display and main return. Perhaps it did something, but it didn’t enough for me to really take notice. Hopefully you have different luck.

I always wanted to make bacteria my main weapon (aside from raising phosphates) against Dinos. But I don’t think my bacteria tactics were successful until I took my UV offline. I know UV won’t kill beneficial bacteria that’s living on surfaces like rock and sand; but I believe it is a huge problem when you’re adding new bacteria that hasn’t yet settled onto surfaces.

In my experience fighting Prorocentrum with bacteria, UV held me back.

Question Your Test Kits
I made a big mistake of being misled by my test kits. As most of us know, Phosphate is key in beating Dinos. I did indeed find that .10 was the tipping point for my tank. It took me forever to go from undetectable to .10. I was dosing absurd amounts of phosphates to get there. The problem became maintaining a level that kept the Dinos away.

I was convinced I was some kind of master reefer, because I had my phosphates on lockdown at .12 for about a year. Then I started to question things. How is it I have them so stable? I sent off an ICP test and grabbed a Hanna checker and discovered that my Red Sea Phosphate test kits are a total joke. I did a bunch of research and found that this is a very well known thing with the Red Sea Phosphate test. It really likes to give a reading of .08. I was perceiving that color as .12. My Phosphate was actually .30.

My main point with test kits is to cross check them. I would also advise using a Hanna Checker and use good testing techniques and watch how you rinse and store the vials. You can get completely inaccurate readings by rinsing them and storing them incorrectly (ask me how I know).

A REAL End Game Strategy
One thing that frustrated me a bit with this thread was that I never really saw anyone explain good end game plan. Plenty of ways to fight Dinos, but no clear way to BEAT Dinos for good.

I’m now of the belief that you just don’t flat our beat them for good. You give other things the ability to outcompete them. And I’m not talking about algae. I know after so many hours in reading this thread that when you start seeing signs of hair algae, that’s considered a victory. Well… I hate hair algae. Hate. It. The other things I like to use to outcompete Dinos are bacteria.

This is my strategy for beating Dinos for good:

• Keep phosphates above .10 for a LONG time
• Don’t let Phosphates dip below .10 until you’ve established biodiversity (see below)
• Make 100% sure your Dinos are receding before assuming you’ve reached the right Phosphate level. You may require more than .10 (or your tests may be inaccurate)
• Start adding live rock
• Do not rely on bacteria in a bottle for a cure
• Add more live rock
• Make sure your Phosphates don’t creep down
• Add more live rock

Using this strategy of regular additions of microbial diversity, I can now maintain my tank at whatever Phosphates I want (i.e. below .10), without having Dinos creep back. This is my end game.

You get the point. I believe in live rock. Think about it though… The vast majority of people in this thread started their tanks with dry rock and dry sand. I did. It would be foolish for me to think that a diverse set of marine microbes would magically appear in my tank and take over. Cycling your tank and establishing nitrifying bacteria does not = a healthy marine biodiversity. And sure, adding coral frags, inverts and fish all add marine microbes but it is NOT enough for proper biodiversity in most cases. Those that haven’t had Dinos in a dry rock / dry sand tank have probably insta-tanked and added a TON of corals right off the bat, or they just haven’t gotten Dinos YET.

I’ve been running saltwater tanks for 25 years and the only tank I’ve ever had Dinos in is the one that started with dry rock and dry sand. I’m currently running 2 other reef tanks that were started with live rock and neither tank has ever had Dinos.

I know people are also very skeptical of anything you have to “keep adding”, like bacteria in a bottle products. I understand the skepticism. But biodiversity does not always improve over time. A reef tank that does not have a steady supply of new corals and additions is probably a reef tank that is declining in biodiversity.

Conclusion & My Tank Info
Thank you to @mcarrol and @taricha for your MASSIVE contributions in helping us keep Dinos at bay. The natural approach is exactly what I was looking for, and I’m grateful for finding this thread. Obviously there are many others that have stepped up in helping people in this thread, but I’ve been lurking in the older end of this thread more than the recent end.

My tank:

• Red Sea 425XL
• Mixed reef (SPS, LPS, softies)
• Started with dry rock / dry sand

My Dino brief history:
Dinos and Cyano appeared in my tank about 2.5 years ago. This was 6 months or so after starting the tank. They were light in numbers for a long time and increased over a long period of time. They’ve never been super bad, but at their worst, I had probably 80% sandbed coverage and they were just choking out a few corals, though the impact on corals was minimal overall. I lost quite a few of my CUC at the worst times.

My treatment began with raising phosphates. After months of dosing ridiculous amounts on a doser, I began to get a reading on test kits. Once I hit .10, they began receding immediately.

I held them back for months and pretty much forgot I ever had them. I added a powerful UV. The Phosphates crept back down toward zero again and back came the Dinos.

I bought a microscope and self-ID’d as Prorocentrum.

The 2nd onslaught was more intense. I know Dinos don’t get smarter and more powerful like aliens do when they invade planets, but you would think so. Hitting .10 again did not push them back like the first time. Adding powerful UV didn’t help. After getting ICP tests done, I learned my Phosphates were being maintained around .30 and that wasn’t pushing them back. It wasn’t until I hit my tank with multiple rounds of live rock, live sand and bacteria in a bottle that I began to see them push back.

They’re a non-issue now and I’m not scared of them anymore.

A few last totally random notes

• My Tail Spot Blenny eats Dinos. Not kidding.
• My Kole Tang eats red stuff, but not sure if he’s after Cyano or not.
• Phyto had no negative impact
• Aminos had no negative impact
• Vibrant had no negative (or in my case, positive) impact. But only used briefly.

Just my own experiences!!

Keep calm and battle on!!

Hey,
I've had my battle as well and still do currently with dino's. Had them and they disappeared right before a tank cash. Went full in with a pentair 50 UV which I'm still running 24/7. Dino's reappeared after I introduced more than 50% new dry rock i currently had already cycled. I took you up on the websites you suggested and personally contacted George. I believe you are on the right path in terms of holistic healing. I have been on an endless search to understand why...no genie in the bottle crap. In that search i have narrowed it down to biome. Obviously I can't definitively say what because who can. I'm going down this road with you because I whole hardily believe you have hit on something and I will report back my findings. As I said I spoke to George and he agreed and he is a Harvard Graduate in marine biology and countless other accolades. After countless searches on this subject I've stayed the course on vacuum and UV that's it. I do not believe anything else holds any merit, not that I've even tried all avenues because I won't. Other than basic and normal levels throughout the system. Thank you so far. I'll keep you posted!

Reef ON!!!

 

[cappa43]

I wanted to share a few of my own observations after battling (and beating) Dinos over about 2 years. This is intended to add a few more pieces of data to the pile. These are things that are a bit outside the box or that I haven’t seen mentioned yet in this thread or elsewhere. I’ve spent 80-100 hours lurking on this thread and this is my first post here. I started from the beginning but I haven’t made it through all 568 pages yet, so my apologies if some of this has been discussed already.

Again, these are just my own experiences – your battle may vary.

I’ve ID’d my Dinos as Prorocentrum, so my experiences may not apply to other species.

Bacteria is Key
I know that competing bacteria is not a new concept at all. But for a notion that gets thrown around a lot, there aren’t a lot of solutions being discussed of HOW to start adding bacteria that can compete with Dinos.

Inoculation – Live Rock or Live Sand: if you’re already bored by my post, I don’t blame you. But at least read this paragraph before you leave. Aside from raising phosphates above .10 this was my primary weapon for beating Dinos.

Over an 8 month span, I’ve added:

• Wonder Mud and Live Sand Activator from IPSF.com.
• Live Rock Rubble from aquabiomics.com
• Live Rock from kpaquatics.com
• Branch rock (live rock purchased from my LFS)

I know they say nothing good happens fast in a reef tank. Well, good things happened fast for me when adding new pieces of live rock. I started up another separate new tank with KP Aquatics rock (overnight premium live rock) and had a cantaloupe sized piece of rock and some rubble leftover. I threw that into the display of my main tank (with the Dinos) before I went to bed and woke up to a tank almost entirely free dinos the next day (all day).

You could write this experience off as a coincidence, but not when you can repeat it. I could knock Dinos back over and over by simply adding new pieces of live rock. Some live rock sources were more effective than others. All sources were very fresh, and were more or less straight from the ocean to my tank. I have experienced no notable results with rock seasoned at my LFS, but that isn’t something I explored deeply. I think that very mature rock, sand or gunk from a very mature reef tank may accomplish the same thing, but it of course depends on the biodiversity – which is hard to guess at. It’s not hard to guess at the biodiversity of live rock straight from the ocean on or near reefs.

Bacteria in a bottle: Before investing in actual live rock and sand, I did a lot of dosing with several bacteria in a bottle products (Macrobacter 7 and similar). It’s hard for me to feel that I’ve gotten anything other than inconclusive results. I’ve gone through periods of improvements while dosing it, and periods of decline while dosing it. That said, Macrobacter is part of my long term plan for staying on the winning side of the war on Dinos and I dose it daily. I think there are less effective ways of using it (see UV section below).

Get to Know Your Enemy
The folks in this thread have been great since day 1 in strongly advising people to ID their Dinos. However, elsewhere in other threads, social media posts, Twitters, Snapchats, etc. Dinos are treated as though the treatment is always the same. It most definitely is NOT.

Beyond just ID’ing your Dinos, observe them! Learn how they react to changes you make! You may have a mix of species, or you may have a species that is acting out of character. I would suggest setting up a diary, new Note on your phone, note in your Apex, etc. and make notes of any changes you see.

Use UV Smartly
UV is definitely considered as a major weapon against Dinos, depending on species. And in cases where it doesn’t push them back single-handedly, it’s often encouraged as one part of a multi-pronged attack. At the very least, it certainly doesn’t hurt anything, right?

I’d like to propose another take on UV. See if it helps against your Dino species. If yours goes into the water column at night, it should help; in theory at least.

My Prorocentrum did indeed move into the water column at night. You’d think I’d be slaying them with my UV but I wasn’t. I went with a very nice, oversized, overpowered UV, plumbed correctly into my display and main return. Perhaps it did something, but it didn’t enough for me to really take notice. Hopefully you have different luck.

I always wanted to make bacteria my main weapon (aside from raising phosphates) against Dinos. But I don’t think my bacteria tactics were successful until I took my UV offline. I know UV won’t kill beneficial bacteria that’s living on surfaces like rock and sand; but I believe it is a huge problem when you’re adding new bacteria that hasn’t yet settled onto surfaces.

In my experience fighting Prorocentrum with bacteria, UV held me back.

Question Your Test Kits
I made a big mistake of being misled by my test kits. As most of us know, Phosphate is key in beating Dinos. I did indeed find that .10 was the tipping point for my tank. It took me forever to go from undetectable to .10. I was dosing absurd amounts of phosphates to get there. The problem became maintaining a level that kept the Dinos away.

I was convinced I was some kind of master reefer, because I had my phosphates on lockdown at .12 for about a year. Then I started to question things. How is it I have them so stable? I sent off an ICP test and grabbed a Hanna checker and discovered that my Red Sea Phosphate test kits are a total joke. I did a bunch of research and found that this is a very well known thing with the Red Sea Phosphate test. It really likes to give a reading of .08. I was perceiving that color as .12. My Phosphate was actually .30.

My main point with test kits is to cross check them. I would also advise using a Hanna Checker and use good testing techniques and watch how you rinse and store the vials. You can get completely inaccurate readings by rinsing them and storing them incorrectly (ask me how I know).

A REAL End Game Strategy
One thing that frustrated me a bit with this thread was that I never really saw anyone explain good end game plan. Plenty of ways to fight Dinos, but no clear way to BEAT Dinos for good.

I’m now of the belief that you just don’t flat our beat them for good. You give other things the ability to outcompete them. And I’m not talking about algae. I know after so many hours in reading this thread that when you start seeing signs of hair algae, that’s considered a victory. Well… I hate hair algae. Hate. It. The other things I like to use to outcompete Dinos are bacteria.

This is my strategy for beating Dinos for good:

• Keep phosphates above .10 for a LONG time
• Don’t let Phosphates dip below .10 until you’ve established biodiversity (see below)
• Make 100% sure your Dinos are receding before assuming you’ve reached the right Phosphate level. You may require more than .10 (or your tests may be inaccurate)
• Start adding live rock
• Do not rely on bacteria in a bottle for a cure
• Add more live rock
• Make sure your Phosphates don’t creep down
• Add more live rock

Using this strategy of regular additions of microbial diversity, I can now maintain my tank at whatever Phosphates I want (i.e. below .10), without having Dinos creep back. This is my end game.

You get the point. I believe in live rock. Think about it though… The vast majority of people in this thread started their tanks with dry rock and dry sand. I did. It would be foolish for me to think that a diverse set of marine microbes would magically appear in my tank and take over. Cycling your tank and establishing nitrifying bacteria does not = a healthy marine biodiversity. And sure, adding coral frags, inverts and fish all add marine microbes but it is NOT enough for proper biodiversity in most cases. Those that haven’t had Dinos in a dry rock / dry sand tank have probably insta-tanked and added a TON of corals right off the bat, or they just haven’t gotten Dinos YET.

I’ve been running saltwater tanks for 25 years and the only tank I’ve ever had Dinos in is the one that started with dry rock and dry sand. I’m currently running 2 other reef tanks that were started with live rock and neither tank has ever had Dinos.

I know people are also very skeptical of anything you have to “keep adding”, like bacteria in a bottle products. I understand the skepticism. But biodiversity does not always improve over time. A reef tank that does not have a steady supply of new corals and additions is probably a reef tank that is declining in biodiversity.

Conclusion & My Tank Info
Thank you to @mcarrol and @taricha for your MASSIVE contributions in helping us keep Dinos at bay. The natural approach is exactly what I was looking for, and I’m grateful for finding this thread. Obviously there are many others that have stepped up in helping people in this thread, but I’ve been lurking in the older end of this thread more than the recent end.

My tank:

• Red Sea 425XL
• Mixed reef (SPS, LPS, softies)
• Started with dry rock / dry sand

My Dino brief history:
Dinos and Cyano appeared in my tank about 2.5 years ago. This was 6 months or so after starting the tank. They were light in numbers for a long time and increased over a long period of time. They’ve never been super bad, but at their worst, I had probably 80% sandbed coverage and they were just choking out a few corals, though the impact on corals was minimal overall. I lost quite a few of my CUC at the worst times.

My treatment began with raising phosphates. After months of dosing ridiculous amounts on a doser, I began to get a reading on test kits. Once I hit .10, they began receding immediately.

I held them back for months and pretty much forgot I ever had them. I added a powerful UV. The Phosphates crept back down toward zero again and back came the Dinos.

I bought a microscope and self-ID’d as Prorocentrum.

The 2nd onslaught was more intense. I know Dinos don’t get smarter and more powerful like aliens do when they invade planets, but you would think so. Hitting .10 again did not push them back like the first time. Adding powerful UV didn’t help. After getting ICP tests done, I learned my Phosphates were being maintained around .30 and that wasn’t pushing them back. It wasn’t until I hit my tank with multiple rounds of live rock, live sand and bacteria in a bottle that I began to see them push back.

They’re a non-issue now and I’m not scared of them anymore.

A few last totally random notes

• My Tail Spot Blenny eats Dinos. Not kidding.
• My Kole Tang eats red stuff, but not sure if he’s after Cyano or not.
• Phyto had no negative impact
• Aminos had no negative impact
• Vibrant had no negative (or in my case, positive) impact. But only used briefly.

Just my own experiences!!

Keep calm and battle on!!

Hey,
I've had my battle as well and still do currently with dino's. Had them and they disappeared right before a tank cash. Went full in with a pentair 50 UV which I'm still running 24/7. Dino's reappeared after I introduced more than 50% new dry rock i currently had already cycled. I took you up on the websites you suggested and personally contacted George. I believe you are on the right path in terms of holistic healing. I have been on an endless search to understand why...no genie in the bottle crap. In that search i have narrowed it down to biome. Obviously I can't definitively say what because who can. I'm going down this road with you because I whole hardily believe you have hit on something and I will report back my findings. As I said I spoke to George and he agreed and he is a Harvard Graduate in marine biology and countless other accolades. After countless searches on this subject I've stayed the course on vacuum and UV that's it. I do not believe anything else holds any merit, not that I've even tried all avenues because I won't. Other than basic and normal levels throughout the system. Thank you so far. I'll keep you posted!
Reef ON!!!

 

[jackson6745]

Hey,
I've had my battle as well and still do currently with dino's. Had them and they disappeared right before a tank cash. Went full in with a pentair 50 UV which I'm still running 24/7. Dino's reappeared after I introduced more than 50% new dry rock i currently had already cycled. I took you up on the websites you suggested and personally contacted George. I believe you are on the right path in terms of holistic healing. I have been on an endless search to understand why...no genie in the bottle crap. In that search i have narrowed it down to biome. Obviously I can't definitively say what because who can. I'm going down this road with you because I whole hardily believe you have hit on something and I will report back my findings. As I said I spoke to George and he agreed and he is a Harvard Graduate in marine biology and countless other accolades. After countless searches on this subject I've stayed the course on vacuum and UV that's it. I do not believe anything else holds any merit, not that I've even tried all avenues because I won't. Other than basic and normal levels throughout the system. Thank you so far. I'll keep you posted!
Reef ON!!!

You tried ozone and it didn’t work for you?

 

[cappa43]

You tried ozone and it didn’t work for you?

No, my LFS who is also a vast wealth of knowledge in his own right along with his employee's didn't think i was a candidate as of yet. He definitely runs a much more simplistic approach, which i respect highly. I definitely ran it by him, but he said no....lol. So considering he has helped me under all these new conditions and wouldn't steer me wrong. I'm going in on the wonder mud and biome since i did add more dry rock than what i had in their already. Boom... Bio Unbalance...Dino's again...That's what I'm seeing thus far.....idk we're all on this journey. I'm on another level though...lol. I do agree on the OZONE theory as well. It's on the back burner believe me.

 

[jackson6745]

No, my LFS who is also a vast wealth of knowledge in his own right along with his employee's didn't think i was a candidate as of yet. He definitely runs a much more simplistic approach, which i respect highly. I definitely ran it by him, but he said no....lol. So considering he has helped me under all these new conditions and wouldn't steer me wrong. I'm going in on the wonder mud and biome since i did add more dry rock than what i had in their already. Boom... Bio Unbalance...Dino's again...That's what I'm seeing thus far.....idk we're all on this journey. I'm on another level though...lol. I do agree on the OZONE theory as well. It's on the back burner believe me.

Yea, totally agree on the biome disruption causing Dino’s. I dosed meds for white bugs and got Dino’s all over my pristine Australian live rock. I knocked it out in a few days running UV and ended up running ozone intermittently since as a precaution. I ordered 20lbs of tbs live rock just to add some more life into the system. I’m definitely throwing darts at the board here but it can’t hurt lol

 

[Cool tangs]

I personally think biome might actually have something to do with it and some unbalance caused by dry rock and sand. I had Dino problems when getting back into the hobby, compared to when I first started(all live rock). I started the return to hobby tank with dry rock and a sand bed. Once I took out the sandbed and put in some live rock, I've never seen it since. My rocks are covered in coralline now and the other benefit I noticed to pulling out my sandbed and running UV is I have no more white spot. I don't QT I gave up because I suck at it but omg no sandbed makes a huge difference in so many ways!

Tanks in the garage whilst building a new home, so sorry for the mess. As well as a recovery stage after I failed to notice my RODI was in need of filters replaced in time and had to do some water changes to save most of the corals

 

[cappa43]

I personally think biome might actually have something to do with it and some unbalance caused by dry rock and sand. I had Dino problems when getting back into the hobby, compared to when I first started(all live rock). I started the return to hobby tank with dry rock and a sand bed. Once I took out the sandbed and put in some live rock, I've never seen it since. My rocks are covered in coralline now and the other benefit I noticed to pulling out my sandbed and running UV is I have no more white spot. I don't QT I gave up because I suck at it but omg no sandbed makes a huge difference in so many ways!

Tanks in the garage whilst building a new home, so sorry for the mess. As well as a recovery stage after I failed to notice my RODI was in need of filters replaced in time and had to do some water changes to save most of the corals

I like what I'm hearing. I'm definitely more interested in the cause than the battle. I would imagine we all are....lol. It's also great to hear and see another positive experience. I can't wait to confirm this for myself. I'm not a 100% on these bad hitchhiker's but I'll keep looking into it, something about fire worms. Besides watching and keeping the 6 elements stable. The disruption of the water column seems to be the problem, weather its dry rock or sand. Not to mention how deep the sand bed live or not. I removed all sand after a crash 4 months ago, had a chance for bare and added sand again (dry aragonite), also added more dry rock (more than half the live rock i had) boom instant dinoreef. I'm winning the war as we speak with 24/7 UV and vacuuming. I will also add that those who are saying to blow the Dino's off the rockwork are 100% wrong. That just makes them spread, I haven't been doing that and just vacuuming them out into a 10micron sock and I am definitely holding them back enough for the healthy biome to take hold on the new rockwork. It is a brutally slow process but I too want to save the coral. The only time I turkey baste them is when they are on the coral physically.
Happy Reefing!

 

[drawman]

I like what I'm hearing. I'm definitely more interested in the cause than the battle. I would imagine we all are....lol. It's also great to hear and see another positive experience. I can't wait to confirm this for myself. I'm not a 100% on these bad hitchhiker's but I'll keep looking into it, something about fire worms. Besides watching and keeping the 6 elements stable. The disruption of the water column seems to be the problem, weather its dry rock or sand. Not to mention how deep the sand bed live or not. I removed all sand after a crash 4 months ago, had a chance for bare and added sand again (dry aragonite), also added more dry rock (more than half the live rock i had) boom instant dinoreef. I'm winning the war as we speak with 24/7 UV and vacuuming. I will also add that those who are saying to blow the Dino's off the rockwork are 100% wrong. That just makes them spread, I haven't been doing that and just vacuuming them out into a 10micron sock and I am definitely holding them back enough for the healthy biome to take hold on the new rockwork. It is a brutally slow process but I too want to save the coral. The only time I turkey baste them is when they are on the coral physically.
Happy Reefing!

Is the 10 micron sock collecting them or do they get through?

 

[Reef.]

I like what I'm hearing. I'm definitely more interested in the cause than the battle. I would imagine we all are....lol. It's also great to hear and see another positive experience. I can't wait to confirm this for myself. I'm not a 100% on these bad hitchhiker's but I'll keep looking into it, something about fire worms. Besides watching and keeping the 6 elements stable. The disruption of the water column seems to be the problem, weather its dry rock or sand. Not to mention how deep the sand bed live or not. I removed all sand after a crash 4 months ago, had a chance for bare and added sand again (dry aragonite), also added more dry rock (more than half the live rock i had) boom instant dinoreef. I'm winning the war as we speak with 24/7 UV and vacuuming. I will also add that those who are saying to blow the Dino's off the rockwork are 100% wrong. That just makes them spread, I haven't been doing that and just vacuuming them out into a 10micron sock and I am definitely holding them back enough for the healthy biome to take hold on the new rockwork. It is a brutally slow process but I too want to save the coral. The only time I turkey baste them is when they are on the coral physically.
Happy Reefing!

When people suggest “blowing them off the rock work” which to be honest I have never read that suggestion, I have read and suggested scrubbing the rock work preferably out of the tank, I would think the implication is to then remove them from the tank by vacuuming or some other way.

Imo its an important step.

A small micron sock may help but its not going to be as impactful as a UV, scrubbing and removal.