Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Mickey]

I'll check things again tomorrow and let you know. Just before I started Re-Fresh most of the Osteos were moving and only a few were encapsulated. Pictures above are after 3 days dosing Refresh. Yesterday started with WasteAway at 1/4 dose. We'll see what things look like tomorrow.

 

[mikeytrw]

Update on week 7 of my SCA and LCA silicate dosing treatment!

The number of dinos found while taking samples had been dropping to the point where it was really hard to find them amongst all the diatoms and 2 days ago I found none at all, so have started to cease dosing silicates.

My tank is starting to look totally awesome now the the CUC can actually make a dent on what has been constant explosive diatom growth.

I'm not going to call mission success just yet, as I want to give it a few weeks for everything to clear and for the tank to hold dino free for a bit before I hail a win but signs are looking strong. Wish me luck.

I'm going to continue dosing live phytoplankton and pods and rotifers and continue with the biodiversity drive from live mud and rock and bacteria dosing.

If all goes well and the tank holds dino free I'll do a write up of everything I did and what I dosed etc just in case there's something interesting or valuable.

 

[taricha]

My tank is starting to look totally awesome now the the CUC can actually make a dent on what has been constant explosive diatom growth.

It's nice for a change when things actually go according to plan.

 

[Mickey]

@taricha Here's some photos from today. Again, sample taken from filter felt hanging in tank, but it was only in 12 hours or so this time.

None of the Osteos show any movement, as before, and some still show that odd disintegrationor explosion. I'm pretty sure the smaller cells are SC amph. Most of those were not moving either, perhaps only 10-20% were moving around. I did not sample the sand this time so haven't observed any LCA but I'll look in the next few days. Interested to see if Dr. Tim's is showing any impact on those.

Tank is looking pretty good. Sand still has lots of areas with dinos and assume it's mostly LCA or diatoms. Rocks are pretty clear except for remaining pieces of dead monti cap I couldn't pry off.

 

[iLMaRiO]

@taricha @ScottB could you please ID?


I've won the battle and i was dino free (tank totally clean and nothing at microscope) for about 2 months but now i can see a lot of sand in rust color. everything makes me thinking to dinos, ive also found 2 or 3 cells in some slides, but 99.99% of what i've found is shown in the video. some diatoms (too low to make the sand dirty i think) but a lot of these very very small animals. i think they are phyto cells.

any idea?

 

[taricha]

@taricha Here's some photos from today. Again, sample taken from filter felt hanging in tank, but it was only in 12 hours or so this time.

None of the Osteos show any movement, as before, and some still show that odd disintegrationor explosion. I'm pretty sure the smaller cells are SC amph. Most of those were not moving either, perhaps only 10-20% were moving around. I did not sample the sand this time so haven't observed any LCA but I'll look in the next few days. Interested to see if Dr. Tim's is showing any impact on those.

this is fascinating.
The ostreopsis cells look stressed and dying, even the ones that haven't disintegrated look like they are losing their cell integrity. The edges look like they are ragged and other organisms are growing on them.

I have looked at waste away a bit and have no reason to think that would be the cause for the ostreopsis stress & death.
Refresh, I have very little familiarity with, and no idea what could be causing the ostreopsis stress signals.

 

[taricha]

but 99.99% of what i've found is shown in the video. some diatoms (too low to make the sand dirty i think) but a lot of these very very small animals. i think they are phyto cells.

something like a cryptomonas or rhodomonas. http://cfb.unh.edu/phycokey/Choices...Cryptomonads/CRYPTOMONAS/Cryptomonas_key.html

I have these occasionally in my system.

 

[iLMaRiO]

something like a cryptomonas or rhodomonas. http://cfb.unh.edu/phycokey/Choices/Cryptophyceae/Photosynthetic Cryptomonads/CRYPTOMONAS/Cryptomonas_key.html

I have these occasionally in my system.

should i fight them ? does they make the sand rusty like diatoms and dinos ?

 

[ScottB]

Update on week 7 of my SCA and LCA silicate dosing treatment!

The number of dinos found while taking samples had been dropping to the point where it was really hard to find them amongst all the diatoms and 2 days ago I found none at all, so have started to cease dosing silicates.

My tank is starting to look totally awesome now the the CUC can actually make a dent on what has been constant explosive diatom growth.

I'm not going to call mission success just yet, as I want to give it a few weeks for everything to clear and for the tank to hold dino free for a bit before I hail a win but signs are looking strong. Wish me luck.

I'm going to continue dosing live phytoplankton and pods and rotifers and continue with the biodiversity drive from live mud and rock and bacteria dosing.

If all goes well and the tank holds dino free I'll do a write up of everything I did and what I dosed etc just in case there's something interesting or valuable.

Believe it or not, 7 weeks for those results seems pretty darn good anecdotally. That is a tough combo to beat into submission. Bravo! And yes please do document your path. Probably good to share that over on the Amphid thread as well.

 

[Mickey]

this is fascinating.
The ostreopsis cells look stressed and dying, even the ones that haven't disintegrated look like they are losing their cell integrity. The edges look like they are ragged and other organisms are growing on them.

I have looked at waste away a bit and have no reason to think that would be the cause for the ostreopsis stress & death.
Refresh, I have very little familiarity with, and no idea what could be causing the ostreopsis stress signals.

I agree that it is very interesting. I'll post updates as things progress. Tank is looking better overall. Rocks are mostly clear except where I have big pieces of monti cap skeleton that I couldn't remove without wrecking my rockwork. I may try again soon as it looks pretty crappy.

Sand still has brownish coating, particularly at the back of the tank. Not really a surprise since that is mostly LCA with some SCA thrown in there.

I'll be ordering amphipods and copepods plus phyto in next few days. I know you have said amphipods love to munch on this, do you have a recommended place to buy? I'm thinking about RUSalty (aquaculturenurseryfarms.com) but I've never used them before.

Mickey

 

[taricha]

should i fight them ? does they make the sand rusty like diatoms and dinos ?

harmless, and they'll pass

 

[taricha]

I know you have said amphipods love to munch on this, do you have a recommended place to buy?

buy a ball of chaeto from any reefer and you should get amphipods with it.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

@taricha @ScottB Need ID. I think osteo, but not 100%

 

[discostew]

Possibly. You might be able to cut back on the floss and siphoning....unless you think the tank needs it. Do you get a lot of mess out with the siphoning? The activated carbon probably isn't necessary, nor the extra bio-media if you have anything close to 1 pound per gallon of live rock.

You might also be able to feed more.

I would suggest investigating both possibilities, but make any changes small and let them happen over a long period of time....weeks....before you judge the

 

[taricha]

Need ID. I think osteo, but not 100%

agreed.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

agreed.

Thanks!

This is a 65g mixed reef with 26 gallon sump. Likely about 65g actual water volume.

My tentative plan was to

1. Install UV directly in display (grabbed Green killing machine 24W. Not sure if this is sufficient. Could get 25W aqua UV if necessary but don't want to spend that much if this one will work).

2. Reduce photo period from 7 hours full intensity, 8 hours low intensity to 5 hours full intensity, 4 hours low intensity.

3. Replace carbon and change weekly. Remove GFO.

4. Temporarily stop auto water change.

5. Turn off refugium light for up to 5 days. Reduce photoperiod from 18 hours to 8 hours if problem still present after 5 days.

6. Increase Nitrate from 0.0 to 5-10 using neonitrate when it shows up. Increase phosphate from 0.03 to 0.08 using seachem flourish.

7. Daily dose 5ml of microbacter7. For 1-2 hour following this treatment turn off UV and skimmer.

8. If problem still present next week, dose Brightwell SpongExcel to 2ppm to force a diatom bloom.

Any additional steps or advice?

 

[saltyhog]

Thanks!

This is a 65g mixed reef with 26 gallon sump. Likely about 65g actual water volume.

My tentative plan was to

1. Install UV directly in display (grabbed Green killing machine 24W. Not sure if this is sufficient. Could get 25W aqua UV if necessary but don't want to spend that much if this one will work).

2. Reduce photo period from 7 hours full intensity, 8 hours low intensity to 5 hours full intensity, 4 hours low intensity.

3. Replace carbon and change weekly. Remove GFO.

4. Temporarily stop auto water change.

5. Turn off refugium light for up to 5 days. Reduce photoperiod from 18 hours to 8 hours if problem still present after 5 days.

6. Increase Nitrate from 0.0 to 5-10 using neonitrate when it shows up. Increase phosphate from 0.03 to 0.08 using seachem flourish.

7. Daily dose 5ml of microbacter7. For 1-2 hour following this treatment turn off UV and skimmer.

8. If problem still present next week, dose Brightwell SpongExcel to 2ppm to force a diatom bloom.

Any additional steps or advice?

I like your plan except for a couple of things. Green Killing Machines have a lousy track record with treating dinos IME. Probably because the flow rate through them is way too fast to be effective with dinos. 25 watts would be a good size UV for your tank size but run it with a dedicated pump at about 150 gph. Jebao makes some inexpensive UV units that work well.....it's a short term application so size/appearance aren't too important.

I would not dose silicates....I haven't found it necessary or helpful with Ostreopsis.

I would consider changing carbon more often (depending on if you're seeing signs of toxicity) as Ostreopsis is quite toxic.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

I like your plan except for a couple of things. Green Killing Machines have a lousy track record with treating dinos IME. Probably because the flow rate through them is way too fast to be effective with dinos. 25 watts would be a good size UV for your tank size but run it with a dedicated pump at about 150 gph. Jebao makes some inexpensive UV units that work well.....it's a short term application so size/appearance aren't too important.

I would not dose silicates....I haven't found it necessary or helpful with Ostreopsis.

I would consider changing carbon more often (depending on if you're seeing signs of toxicity) as Ostreopsis is quite toxic.

I had read that the Jebaos leach a ton of plastic into the tank.

I think I could fit a coralife 6x (18W) in my tank, but I would have to plumb it into my sump instead of the display (I have wrasses that might jump if I take the covers off to get a tube out). The 12x is too big to fit somewhere I can hide away from the baby.

Would that be a worthwhile improvement, or would I need to jump all the way to a $400 aquaUV? This would also need to be plumbed into my sump.

 

[saltyhog]

In a short term application there's nothing wrong with a Jebao. This is a very short term application. Lay the UV on a card table next to the tank, put the pump in the tank and use flexible tubing. I cut two small cut outs on my top and had no issues with my 12 wrasses.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

In a short term application there's nothing wrong with a Jebao. This is a very short term application. Lay the UV on a card table next to the tank, put the pump in the tank and use flexible tubing. I cut two small cut outs on my top and had no issues with my 12 wrasses.

I ended up just grabbing this one as a happy medium that I can plumb into my sump after the temporary setup for dinos is done. The Green Killing Machine will stay hooked up for the rest of its return period or when dinos are completely gone, so I will end up running double UV once the other shows up.

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I also grabbed a mj600 to get the approx 3x tank turnover per hour target.