Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Snot Otter]

I took these pictures today. Looks like dinos and something else. Whatever it is, it wasn't moving under the microscope. Thoughts?

 

[taricha]

Thoughts?

A kind of amphidinium, and a diatom.

 

[Snot Otter]

A kind of amphidinium, and a diatom.

Does amphidinium typically move under the microscope? What I saw was not moving at all.

 

[Snot Otter]

Video I took today. There's movement.

 

[ScottB]

Video I took today. There's movement.

That could be chrysophytes or "golden algae".

Does it retain a gelatinous structure when removed from the water? Have you done the coffee filter test yet? This article explains how to test and what to do:

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

As the title suggests, this is intended as a short guide on what to do when you suspect dinoflagellates are trying to overtake your system. It is an attempt to boil down the protocols discussed across 11,000 posts in this "Are you Tired" thread along with thousands of other dino threads. I did...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[mikeytrw]

Hi, few weeks into silicate dosing to deal with LCA and SCA:

Dosing water glass heavily (2-4ppm), maintaining nutrients, added mature rock from LFS, dosed AF life source (Fiji mud) and MB7 for biodiversity.

Can I ask advice on cleaning the sand bed?

I've been periodically vacuuming the sand bed into a 5nm sock in the sump to clear off the thick matt of diatoms and hopefully remove some dinos as well. Should I continue to do this or just let the sand bed get totally caked in diatoms?

 

[ScottB]

Hi, few weeks into silicate dosing to deal with LCA and SCA:

Dosing water glass heavily (2-4ppm), maintaining nutrients, added mature rock from LFS, dosed AF life source (Fiji mud) and MB7 for biodiversity.

Can I ask advice on cleaning the sand bed?

I've been periodically vacuuming the sand bed into a 5nm sock in the sump to clear off the thick matt of diatoms and hopefully remove some dinos as well. Should I continue to do this or just let the sand bed get totally caked in diatoms?

It is a good question. I've heard both sides of this debate and don't have a high conviction answer. I would lean away from disturbing the sand bed. You are trying to encourage competition. Not sure the "disruption" favors the dinos versus the competitors.

 

[taricha]

Does amphidinium typically move under the microscope? What I saw was not moving at all.

yes, usually most of them are more mobile. the below was a discussion of this type before...
see another video here

The other person I've seen with a dino that looked the most like this - tiny, round mostly not moving amphidinium that sometimes slowly spin - was able to ignore it and just run the tank as normal, so his strain was low toxin.

not moving could mean any of a few different things. Some dinos are immobile during a resting stage until conditions are more favorable. Could mean dying, though that seems unlikely here. Some dinos are immobile when they are getting all their nutritional needs met in the mucus mat, and there is no need to move. Or it could just be the habit of this particular species. Swimming activity varies a lot by dino species.

Can I ask advice on cleaning the sand bed?

I think manually removing biomass is important to help the system move forward. Plenty of diversity gets left behind, I say suck it out. no hard evidence which way is better.

 

[Forty-Two]

Hi all,
My name is 42, and I have dinoflagellates, but Im taking it one day at a time.....

I thought I would put in my experiences in the event it helps anyone.

Pertinent Stats:
Tank Volume: 100G (Total), Display 70G
Lighting: Orphek Atantik
Sump?: Yes
Skimmer: Deltec
Heater: Schego
Pumps: XF330's
Tank: Neptunian Cube
Live Rock?: Yes
Approx mix: 50% initially
Age of Tank: its complicated. Total ~8 months

Background:
Its a long story and its not that relevant, so the short version is: Ordered a 230G, having it built internationally (dont ask). Got a small tank to get started - as I needed QA tank anyways. It turned out to be horribad, and a Neptunian Cube came up. I decided to grab it, and I migrated all of my corals and fish to the 100G Neptunian Cube. In hindsight I believe Ive had Dino's for quite some time now - probably a good 6-7 months. The reason I say this is because of THE SMELL.

There's a shop I buy corals from regularly, and I remember smelling this overwhelming sickly sweet bio smell in his shop, and it being so strong it made me feel ill. Of course I saw "something" on the base of the corals but I didnt know what it was, and the shop seems to have great knowledge and care of their corals, so I thought it was probably manageable.

When I started the tank I used 50% Live rock, and when I upgraded the tank (from about 30G to 100G) I put in a lot more in order to balance it out, but it was still around 50/50. After migrating to the new tank, it was good for the first month or two for several reasons - but also because I left all of the 'mess' behind in the old tank, but of course, the dino's came with the corals and started to grow.

Maybe 2-3 weeks ago I finally decided to purchase a microscope and confirmed Ostreopsis. I debated for a week or two whether to shut down the tank or not, as I knew it was going to be a long fight, and quite frankly, Ive put so much work into the tank already, I wasnt sure I wanted to have a year long battle, on top of the struggles Ive already had with it.

Anyhoo - my wife convinced me to move forward with the tank, so here we are.

What I've observed anecdotally - which means changes in the Ostreopsis seem to correspond to changes Ive made - but it isnt proof - as the changes havent been made in controlled or repeated to confirm.

• I did not try changing my light cycle - mostly because I have some sensitive corals and I didnt want to harm them by altering the light cycle
• I did try raising the temperature - this seemed to have little/no impact. My temp ranges from 26.0 to 26.9 Celcius. It could stand to go a little higher, but I didnt want to risk that with the corals
• I did add more live rock. My LFS was able to acquire some decent quality Indonesian live rock (from another Reef tank - not from wild) - and it DID seem to make a positive impact. I noticed within 3-5 days a marked decline in the amount of Dino's
• I did put in a UV filter. I dont think is strong enough however (it's only 11w) - I went back and forth with the LFS on this one for a while - but the space under the sump isnt big enough to accommodate a larger UV filter. I did notice a decline in the amount of Dino's - but they are not gone. Im only on day 2 with the UV filter however
• I did eventually turn off my skimmer. I did notice an overall improvement without the skimmer running.
• I did stop carbon dosing at certain points during the fight. I didnt notice any appreciable impact. I did change it to 2X .1ml a day recently however, down from 3X .1ml/day
• I did stop dosing Reef Roids for a period of time and things were improving, but my goniopora started to look pretty rough, and I decided to put in 1/2 a TSP (spot feeding only). I noticed a significant impact the following day - as the Dino's sprang back in numerous places where they were previously thinning.
• I do blow them off rocks etc - sometimes multiple times a day and then clean out the sock.
• I am now using active carbon to try to filter out some of the toxins. I havent noticed a significant difference in anything but water clarity - but its still early days - so we'll see how that goes
• I did notice a difference after changing the water. I tried to go as long as possible without changing water, but I recently added a MasterTronic (which is an amazing bit of kit), and that combined with the GHL Director(which I do not like at all) takes out a fair bit of sample water, so I was forced to put some Saltwater back in. Over the following 3-4 days, I noticed a flair up in the dino's
• I have noticed the following observation which may inform others for Ostreopsis:
  • My Favia's seem to love it. Especially the Dragon Soul Favia. Its big and fat and eating all of the time. Ive never seen it look better, and every time I blow and clean off the Ostreopsis it gets all fat and happy with mouths open. I honestly thing it likes the Dino's (!???? if that's even possible)
  • My Golden Torch has been retracted for quite some time - ever since the Dino flare ups got worse. It seems quite irritated by them
  • My Goniopora also seems very irritated by them, mostly retracted. One of my Goni's I think Im going to lose because its been retracted 24X7 now for a few days, and it had a lot of them on its base.
  • My GSP has been mostly retracted ever since the flare ups got worse
  • My Diamond Gobi eats the Ostreposis off of the sand. When I blow and clean eventually a bunch of it ends up on the sand and he goes and cleans it all up. It doesnt seem to harm him at all.

Well that's it I think. Im still battling. I'll know more whether Im going to succeed with the UV filter over the next few days or whether I need to replace it with something strong and try to find some sort of space for it.

Hope that helps someone.

 

[mikeytrw]

GOOD NEWS!

Hi all,
My name is 42, and I have dinoflagellates, but Im taking it one day at a time.....

I thought I would put in my experiences in the event it helps anyone.

Pertinent Stats:
Tank Volume: 100G (Total), Display 70G
Lighting: Orphek Atantik
Sump?: Yes
Skimmer: Deltec
Heater: Schego
Pumps: XF330's
Tank: Neptunian Cube
Live Rock?: Yes
Approx mix: 50% initially
Age of Tank: its complicated. Total ~8 months

Background:
Its a long story and its not that relevant, so the short version is: Ordered a 230G, having it built internationally (dont ask). Got a small tank to get started - as I needed QA tank anyways. It turned out to be horribad, and a Neptunian Cube came up. I decided to grab it, and I migrated all of my corals and fish to the 100G Neptunian Cube. In hindsight I believe Ive had Dino's for quite some time now - probably a good 6-7 months. The reason I say this is because of THE SMELL.

There's a shop I buy corals from regularly, and I remember smelling this overwhelming sickly sweet bio smell in his shop, and it being so strong it made me feel ill. Of course I saw "something" on the base of the corals but I didnt know what it was, and the shop seems to have great knowledge and care of their corals, so I thought it was probably manageable.

When I started the tank I used 50% Live rock, and when I upgraded the tank (from about 30G to 100G) I put in a lot more in order to balance it out, but it was still around 50/50. After migrating to the new tank, it was good for the first month or two for several reasons - but also because I left all of the 'mess' behind in the old tank, but of course, the dino's came with the corals and started to grow.

Maybe 2-3 weeks ago I finally decided to purchase a microscope and confirmed Ostreopsis. I debated for a week or two whether to shut down the tank or not, as I knew it was going to be a long fight, and quite frankly, Ive put so much work into the tank already, I wasnt sure I wanted to have a year long battle, on top of the struggles Ive already had with it.

Anyhoo - my wife convinced me to move forward with the tank, so here we are.

What I've observed anecdotally - which means changes in the Ostreopsis seem to correspond to changes Ive made - but it isnt proof - as the changes havent been made in controlled or repeated to confirm.

• I did not try changing my light cycle - mostly because I have some sensitive corals and I didnt want to harm them by altering the light cycle
• I did try raising the temperature - this seemed to have little/no impact. My temp ranges from 26.0 to 26.9 Celcius. It could stand to go a little higher, but I didnt want to risk that with the corals
• I did add more live rock. My LFS was able to acquire some decent quality Indonesian live rock (from another Reef tank - not from wild) - and it DID seem to make a positive impact. I noticed within 3-5 days a marked decline in the amount of Dino's
• I did put in a UV filter. I dont think is strong enough however (it's only 11w) - I went back and forth with the LFS on this one for a while - but the space under the sump isnt big enough to accommodate a larger UV filter. I did notice a decline in the amount of Dino's - but they are not gone. Im only on day 2 with the UV filter however
• I did eventually turn off my skimmer. I did notice an overall improvement without the skimmer running.
• I did stop carbon dosing at certain points during the fight. I didnt notice any appreciable impact. I did change it to 2X .1ml a day recently however, down from 3X .1ml/day
• I did stop dosing Reef Roids for a period of time and things were improving, but my goniopora started to look pretty rough, and I decided to put in 1/2 a TSP (spot feeding only). I noticed a significant impact the following day - as the Dino's sprang back in numerous places where they were previously thinning.
• I do blow them off rocks etc - sometimes multiple times a day and then clean out the sock.
• I am now using active carbon to try to filter out some of the toxins. I havent noticed a significant difference in anything but water clarity - but its still early days - so we'll see how that goes
• I did notice a difference after changing the water. I tried to go as long as possible without changing water, but I recently added a MasterTronic (which is an amazing bit of kit), and that combined with the GHL Director(which I do not like at all) takes out a fair bit of sample water, so I was forced to put some Saltwater back in. Over the following 3-4 days, I noticed a flair up in the dino's
• I have noticed the following observation which may inform others for Ostreopsis:
  • My Favia's seem to love it. Especially the Dragon Soul Favia. Its big and fat and eating all of the time. Ive never seen it look better, and every time I blow and clean off the Ostreopsis it gets all fat and happy with mouths open. I honestly thing it likes the Dino's (!???? if that's even possible)
  • My Golden Torch has been retracted for quite some time - ever since the Dino flare ups got worse. It seems quite irritated by them
  • My Goniopora also seems very irritated by them, mostly retracted. One of my Goni's I think Im going to lose because its been retracted 24X7 now for a few days, and it had a lot of them on its base.
  • My GSP has been mostly retracted ever since the flare ups got worse
  • My Diamond Gobi eats the Ostreposis off of the sand. When I blow and clean eventually a bunch of it ends up on the sand and he goes and cleans it all up. It doesnt seem to harm him at all.

Well that's it I think. Im still battling. I'll know more whether Im going to succeed with the UV filter over the next few days or whether I need to replace it with something strong and try to find some sort of space for it.

Hope that helps someone.

Ostreopsis is one of the easier dinos to fight. You need a big oversized UV plumbed directly out and back into the display tank, not in sump, 1w per 3 gal so yours is dramatically undersized. LFS will be going off manufacturers reccomendations which is for killing bacteria not big fat dinos. Use a DC pump and set the flow rate to low, 1x tank volume per hour is the ideal I believe.

You didn't mention nutrient levels but make sure they're not zero.

Make sure you're running activated carbon and replacing regularly to remove toxins because Ostreo are the most toxic of all dinos.

Dose Phytoplankton and seed pods. H2O2 is also often recommended but I have no experience of that.

 

[Forty-Two]

GOOD NEWS!


Ostreopsis is one of the easier dinos to fight. You need a big oversized UV plumbed directly out and back into the display tank, not in sump, 1w per 3 gal so yours is dramatically undersized. LFS will be going off manufacturers reccomendations which is for killing bacteria not big fat dinos. Use a DC pump and set the flow rate to low, 1x tank volume per hour is the ideal I believe.

You didn't mention nutrient levels but make sure they're not zero.

Make sure you're running activated carbon and replacing regularly to remove toxins because Ostreo are the most toxic of all dinos.

Dose Phytoplankton and seed pods. H2O2 is also often recommended but I have no experience of that.

Yes I’m thinking it’s underpowered too. I’ll probably need to replace it.

my Nutrients are good now and stable - Nitrate ~5-7 ppm and Phos ~.04- .08 ppm.
Ostreopsis mostly took off after a carbon dosing bomb went off by accident and crashed my nutrients.

I’ve heard about H2O2 - but I haven’t seen any evidence that it’s effective - and putting something in my tank that is used for killing bacterial infections at some level leaves me to question whether it will do damage or not. I don’t want it harming the bacteria in the tank.

thanks for the info btw - and I’ll probably need to change my carbon more often than I thought

 

[ScottB]

Yes I’m thinking it’s underpowered too. I’ll probably need to replace it.

my Nutrients are good now and stable - Nitrate ~5-7 ppm and Phos ~.04- .08 ppm.
Ostreopsis mostly took off after a carbon dosing bomb went off by accident and crashed my nutrients.

I’ve heard about H2O2 - but I haven’t seen any evidence that it’s effective - and putting something in my tank that is used for killing bacterial infections at some level leaves me to question whether it will do damage or not. I don’t want it harming the bacteria in the tank.

thanks for the info btw - and I’ll probably need to change my carbon more often than I thought

I can smell ostreopsis from several kilometers away now. HATE that smell. Running some GAC will help with the smell.

And yes, as suggested already, a larger UV will knock them back. Just know that they will always be in the tank, which is fine as long as they are outcompeted for space by a healthy combination of diatoms, bacterial film, film algae, cyano, and hundreds of other microorganisms.

 

[MnFish1]

I don't know what percentage of folks had luck battling dinos with any of the methods in the old Dino thread but it's obviously a very low percentage, so I'd like refresh folks on the natural alternatives and lay out three areas of info:

• some of the factors that contribute to a dino outbreak
• how to avoid common dino outbreaks
• and what do if your tank is already having an outbreak

Let's get started!

Common Contributing Factors
Some of the most common factors that contribute to the dino outbreaks we cover in this thread are:

• the tank being new, rock being immature or the tank being otherwise highly disturbed, such as by other harsh tank treatments
• hard core nutrient reduction tools being used, such as
  • organic carbon dosing
  • excess "bio media"
  • algae filtration
  • nutrient adsorbing media like GFO

These four factors, or excess nutrient removal generally, play – usually in combination; rarely just one factor alone – pretty directly into dino's conversion to the blooming, phagotrophic, mat forming, toxin-producing side of their nature.

• Starvation Is Their Cue
  • Dino's seem to prefer life as autotrophic epiphytes on macro algae – chaeto morpha seems to be one of their favorite types to host in. (Maybe this fact can be useful to us; maybe sometimes chaeto ought not be used, or used with special consideration)
  • For several reasons, dino's seem to be terrible at nutrient uptake. This means they are more prone to starvation than many or most other microorganisms they have to compete with.....especially bacteria, which can scavenge free nutrients down to CRAZY low levels...low enough to starve out other microbes or algae.
  • With their protective mucus mats, potential to generate wicked toxins, and ability to survive not only by way of photosynthesis and dissolved nutrients, but alternately, when times get tough, by "eating their neighbors". (The least of their tricks.)
  • Dino's generally gain a competitive edge against their competitors AND their predators in a nutrient-starved environment. Keep reading!

How To Avoid Having A Dino Outbreak
In a nutshell, here's how to avoid dino outbreaks and begin to normalize your tank if you already have an outbreak:

• Phosphate Control
  • DO NOT let your phosphates hit or stay at zero.
  • See: Bacterivory in algae: A survival strategy during nutrient limitation
• Nitrate Control
  • Do not let your nitrates hit or stay at zero.
  • See: Putting the N in dinoflagellates
  • See: A Nitrate Dosing Calculator For Better Tank Health (And Better Coral Color!)
• Starvation conditions (zero or near-zero nitrate or phosphate levels) should be avoided.
  • Keep in mind that dissolved nutrients are not "waste products" to be eliminated
  • They are nutrients for the critters you care about like corals
  • The are also nutrients for a potential multitude of mostly-unknown/anonymous microbes that are needed to bring stability to a new tank.
  • Once excess nutrients have an impact, in fact, they usually can't be simply eliminated with media anyway – they've probably already had an impact on the tank's microbial cycle. (See blog link #3 at bottom.)
  • This all adds up to skipping almost all "extra" nutrient removing steps during the tank's initial development. This period seems to be especially critical, and longer in a tank started with dry, dead rock. Don't use anything until it's absolutely needed and other options have been fully exhausted...and be conservative with how you apply any nutrient removing tool.

What to do if you're tank is already having a dino outbreak
When attempting to control an organism like a dinoflagellate, confirming the ID will help, if possible:

• So to begin with, make sure you have Dinos – you should have multiple factors at work...these factors were mentioned in the first section above. The less these factors seem to describe your tank, the less likely any of this advice will be correct for your situation – so post questions!
  • no special equipment is needed to confirm whether your algae sample has dino's and/or other algae
  • Use @taricha's dino confirmation guide on posts #986-987.
• Once you have confirmed that you have dino's you should ideally figure out what type(s) your tank is hosting. (Multiple species blooms seem almost as common as single-strain blooms.)
  • A basic 1200x microscope will be useful and doesn't have to be fancier than a $15 toy scope. Even a $50 scope is a lot nicer, if you think you might be more serious about it.
  • See: Selecting a microscope for more discussion.

• Compare your dino's with photos where @taricha and @Beardo have already made ID's:
• (Click the link. Then click the SEARCHbutton at the bottom of the search page.)
  • ostreopsis
    • Consider focusing first on posts #86 and #905
  • prorocentrum
  • amphidinium
    • Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods (they are unique and somewhat more experimental)
  • coolia
  • (other searches coming)

• Extra Measures
  Generally, these tools will give extra control in terms of removing and/or killing cells in the water column....usually, along with other measures explained here, expediting the close of the dino bloom.
  • UV
    You can find discussions throughout the thread by using this search, with a great breakout of spec's on post #3770.
  • Diatom Filtration
    Effective, but not that popular. The more common units like the classic Vortex are somewhat difficult to use, and the newer units like the new Marineland Polishing Filter are relatively unknown. Still worthy of consideration.

So, after you get a measure of control, make sure you read What is the End Game?

Miscellaneous Goodies

• Post #2725 has a great diary of tank observations, test results and time-series graphs during the treatment for dino's from one of our members.
• Disturbances we cause in our tanksare what allow microbial/algal populations to shift and ugly/harmful blooms to happen.
  • See: Evidence for the Existence of Three Primary Strategies in Plants and Its Relevance to Ecological and Evolutionary Theory

• Take measures to assure that your feeding system is very consistent. An auto-feeder is an overlooked tool on most tanks. Look at Eheim's feeders...set them on low with high quality flake food. Just don't let them run your whole feeding program as flake isn't great food.

• Find out what inconsistencies you can eliminate with your husbandry to prevent more unneeded disturbances and the resulting microbial/algal changes. This could be changes to lighting or water chemistry – make them as consistent as you can.

• E.g. If you're adding new livestock all the time, stop it. If you have a color-tunable light fixture, stop re-tuning the colors. If you don't have an ATO keeping your salinity stable, get one. If you're still managing your dosing by hand, get an $80 4-head doser. Etc.

• If you provide the stability, then your dino's competitors will start competing with them and their predators will start eating them!!

• One thing that seems to help things progress is to stop scraping down the algae off your glass....once the dino's start giving up space that is. Mechanical removal is a legit short-term strategy and might help give competitors a leg up too.

2¢

Other interesting more-or-less related links on my blog:

1. The role of nutrients in decomposition of a thecate dinoflagellate
2. Effects of organic carbon, organic nitrogen, inorganic nutrients, and iron additions on the growth of phytoplankton and bacteria during a brown tide bloom
3. Response of heterotrophic bacteria, autotrophic picoplankton and heterotrophic nanoflagellates to re-oligotrophication

(Also cross-posted in the old Dino thread!)

I'm curious - I recently had a 'die off' - due to a feeding error - of someone taking care of my tank. The nutrients are HIGH - the Dinos were 'out of control'. The SG was 1.030 - again a mistake. There was cyano and Dinos together - EVErywhere. I used chemiclean (against my better judgement - cleared everything up - no Dinos no algae. now just rock and corralline - though many people report 'Dinos' after treating with chemiclean. IMHO - there is no magic bullet - EXCEpt - covering available landscape. I know - this is heresy. its just my opinion

 

[Saltbøtta]

Hello everyone. This thread is a great resource. I have what I believe to be dinos. I did a test where i shook them up in this vial, and they reformed with no discoloration of the water. However, they do not seem to go away at night. Is this any indication of what kind of dinos I might have? They arent growing very quickly, at least not yet. However tests are showing my nitrates have dropped from 10-15 to 2 in two weeks. The tank has always had very low phosphates, so I am thinking that may be the culprit. I have been dosing it but it it still measuring at below 0.01.

My plan is to try to vacuum it out through filter floss and return the water so I don't do excess water changes and keep dosing phosphates. I had success doing this with cyano. Does this sound like a good idea?

 

[ScottB]

Hello everyone. This thread is a great resource. I have what I believe to be dinos. I did a test where i shook them up in this vial, and they reformed with no discoloration of the water. However, they do not seem to go away at night. Is this any indication of what kind of dinos I might have? They arent growing very quickly, at least not yet. However tests are showing my nitrates have dropped from 10-15 to 2 in two weeks. The tank has always had very low phosphates, so I am thinking that may be the culprit. I have been dosing it but it it still measuring at below 0.01.

My plan is to try to vacuum it out through filter floss and return the water so I don't do excess water changes and keep dosing phosphates. I had success doing this with cyano. Does this sound like a good idea?

Sure, that is a decent start. If they persist, it would be a good idea to get a specie identification.

 

[Saltbøtta]

Sure, that is a decent start. If they persist, it would be a good idea to get a specie identification.

Thank you. Then I will try this for a few weeks! I don't really have the money for a microscope right now, so I was hoping the fact that they don't dissolve at night might be some indicator with regards to species..

 

[BurgerFish]

I beat the Dinos again:
UV when light OFF
Putting real life rock (2 lb) for bio diversity.
Using Fauna Marin ReBiotic.
Dosing Phytoplankton

it takes 2-3 months.

 

[Forty-Two]

Hi all,
My name is 42, and I have dinoflagellates, but Im taking it one day at a time.....

I thought I would put in my experiences in the event it helps anyone.

Pertinent Stats:
Tank Volume: 100G (Total), Display 70G
Lighting: Orphek Atantik
Sump?: Yes
Skimmer: Deltec
Heater: Schego
Pumps: XF330's
Tank: Neptunian Cube
Live Rock?: Yes
Approx mix: 50% initially
Age of Tank: its complicated. Total ~8 months

Background:
Its a long story and its not that relevant, so the short version is: Ordered a 230G, having it built internationally (dont ask). Got a small tank to get started - as I needed QA tank anyways. It turned out to be horribad, and a Neptunian Cube came up. I decided to grab it, and I migrated all of my corals and fish to the 100G Neptunian Cube. In hindsight I believe Ive had Dino's for quite some time now - probably a good 6-7 months. The reason I say this is because of THE SMELL.

There's a shop I buy corals from regularly, and I remember smelling this overwhelming sickly sweet bio smell in his shop, and it being so strong it made me feel ill. Of course I saw "something" on the base of the corals but I didnt know what it was, and the shop seems to have great knowledge and care of their corals, so I thought it was probably manageable.

When I started the tank I used 50% Live rock, and when I upgraded the tank (from about 30G to 100G) I put in a lot more in order to balance it out, but it was still around 50/50. After migrating to the new tank, it was good for the first month or two for several reasons - but also because I left all of the 'mess' behind in the old tank, but of course, the dino's came with the corals and started to grow.

Maybe 2-3 weeks ago I finally decided to purchase a microscope and confirmed Ostreopsis. I debated for a week or two whether to shut down the tank or not, as I knew it was going to be a long fight, and quite frankly, Ive put so much work into the tank already, I wasnt sure I wanted to have a year long battle, on top of the struggles Ive already had with it.

Anyhoo - my wife convinced me to move forward with the tank, so here we are.

What I've observed anecdotally - which means changes in the Ostreopsis seem to correspond to changes Ive made - but it isnt proof - as the changes havent been made in controlled or repeated to confirm.

• I did not try changing my light cycle - mostly because I have some sensitive corals and I didnt want to harm them by altering the light cycle
• I did try raising the temperature - this seemed to have little/no impact. My temp ranges from 26.0 to 26.9 Celcius. It could stand to go a little higher, but I didnt want to risk that with the corals
• I did add more live rock. My LFS was able to acquire some decent quality Indonesian live rock (from another Reef tank - not from wild) - and it DID seem to make a positive impact. I noticed within 3-5 days a marked decline in the amount of Dino's
• I did put in a UV filter. I dont think is strong enough however (it's only 11w) - I went back and forth with the LFS on this one for a while - but the space under the sump isnt big enough to accommodate a larger UV filter. I did notice a decline in the amount of Dino's - but they are not gone. Im only on day 2 with the UV filter however
• I did eventually turn off my skimmer. I did notice an overall improvement without the skimmer running.
• I did stop carbon dosing at certain points during the fight. I didnt notice any appreciable impact. I did change it to 2X .1ml a day recently however, down from 3X .1ml/day
• I did stop dosing Reef Roids for a period of time and things were improving, but my goniopora started to look pretty rough, and I decided to put in 1/2 a TSP (spot feeding only). I noticed a significant impact the following day - as the Dino's sprang back in numerous places where they were previously thinning.
• I do blow them off rocks etc - sometimes multiple times a day and then clean out the sock.
• I am now using active carbon to try to filter out some of the toxins. I havent noticed a significant difference in anything but water clarity - but its still early days - so we'll see how that goes
• I did notice a difference after changing the water. I tried to go as long as possible without changing water, but I recently added a MasterTronic (which is an amazing bit of kit), and that combined with the GHL Director(which I do not like at all) takes out a fair bit of sample water, so I was forced to put some Saltwater back in. Over the following 3-4 days, I noticed a flair up in the dino's
• I have noticed the following observation which may inform others for Ostreopsis:
  • My Favia's seem to love it. Especially the Dragon Soul Favia. Its big and fat and eating all of the time. Ive never seen it look better, and every time I blow and clean off the Ostreopsis it gets all fat and happy with mouths open. I honestly thing it likes the Dino's (!???? if that's even possible)
  • My Golden Torch has been retracted for quite some time - ever since the Dino flare ups got worse. It seems quite irritated by them
  • My Goniopora also seems very irritated by them, mostly retracted. One of my Goni's I think Im going to lose because its been retracted 24X7 now for a few days, and it had a lot of them on its base.
  • My GSP has been mostly retracted ever since the flare ups got worse
  • My Diamond Gobi eats the Ostreposis off of the sand. When I blow and clean eventually a bunch of it ends up on the sand and he goes and cleans it all up. It doesnt seem to harm him at all.

Well that's it I think. Im still battling. I'll know more whether Im going to succeed with the UV filter over the next few days or whether I need to replace it with something strong and try to find some sort of space for it.

Hope that helps someone.

Update:

I appear to have the Dino's suppressed for the time being. The growth is slowly fading. At this rate, I would estimate another month or two until we're in the clear.

I still have my skimmer off

I did not in the end move to a bigger UV filter because I saw the Dino's shrinking, albeit slowly.

One other thing to note is that my UV Filter is plumbed after my reactor with active carbon because I was running out of plugs, and couldnt put in a 3rd pump in my sump. So it goes - pump in last chamber of the sump ->Reactor with Active Carbon -> UV-FIlter -> Refugium. Not sure if this helps, or makes it worse, but it seems to be working (B"H).

I did not use Dr. TIm's Refresh or Waste Away - primarily because I read it will impact Nitrates and Phosphates, by lowering them, and that's not what I want at this time - as my NO3 and PO4 are stabilizing for the most part, and the last thing I want is anything messing with that stabilization process.

 

[Mickey]

I've been battling dinos for the last few months, long story I won't go into now, but it's the second or third time in 4-5 years.

@taricha I wanted to share what I saw today in my scope that I hadn't seen before. I have LCA on my sand, and predominantly Osteos on my rocks with some SCAmphs in both areas. Tank is a 225 and I really didn't want to spend a fortune adding an appropriately sized UV so I used a "poor man's" solution. I hung a couple strips of filter felt in the tank for a day or two each time. They turned brown as expected and showed typical dino snotty strings. When checking samples under the scope I would find Osteos as expected.

A few days ago I decided to try Dr. Tim's dino treatment. So for three days I dosed Re-Fresh per his instructions though I only used 50ml the first day, 75ml the second day and 100ml the third day (did it on purpose because of the caution about snails and I had a large order on the way). I went lights out, but did not black out the tank as I'd already beaten things back somewhat. Last night I hung some filter felt again and this morning it was all brown but no snotty strings. Took a sample to take a look and all the Osteos I could find are encapsulated. Quite a few of them look like they are disintegrating or exploding from inside out. I hadn't seen this before. It's a big change from what I saw just a few days ago.

 

[taricha]

Took a sample to take a look and all the Osteos I could find are encapsulated. Quite a few of them look like they are disintegrating or exploding from inside out. I hadn't seen this before. It's a big change from what I saw just a few days ago.

These pics are very interesting! Please continue to sample over the next few days and watch how this progresses.

To get the uninteresting possibilities out of the way, if you push down the slide cover, and damaged the cells they would look a lot like that. Also if you got some fresh water on the cells, the damage would look a lot like that also.

There are three interesting observations that you pointed out in the samples. One is that the shell or armor, "theca" is in some cells being shed, in other cells it seems to be thicker. The third observation is some cell disintegration.
The armor being shed is also done in cell division, but the cells in the process of shedding show no signs of splitting in your photos - and cell division is obvious under a microscope for ostreopsis. The double thick armor is formation of cysts, which is done during times of stress. Taken all together these three observations look like a population under significant stress. Shedding without division, creation of cysts, and cell disintegration.
Like I said, I'll be interested to see what the microscope pictures look like in a couple of days.