Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
- Thread starter mcarroll
- Start date
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I wanted to share a few of my own observations after battling (and beating) Dinos over about 2 years. This is intended to add a few more pieces of data to the pile. These are things that are a bit outside the box or that I haven’t seen mentioned yet in this thread or elsewhere. I’ve spent 80-100 hours lurking on this thread and this is my first post here. I started from the beginning but I haven’t made it through all 568 pages yet, so my apologies if some of this has been discussed already.
Again, these are just my own experiences – your battle may vary.
I’ve ID’d my Dinos as Prorocentrum, so my experiences may not apply to other species.
Bacteria is Key
I know that competing bacteria is not a new concept at all. But for a notion that gets thrown around a lot, there aren’t a lot of solutions being discussed of HOW to start adding bacteria that can compete with Dinos.
Inoculation – Live Rock or Live Sand: if you’re already bored by my post, I don’t blame you. But at least read this paragraph before you leave. Aside from raising phosphates above .10 this was my primary weapon for beating Dinos.
Over an 8 month span, I’ve added:
You could write this experience off as a coincidence, but not when you can repeat it. I could knock Dinos back over and over by simply adding new pieces of live rock. Some live rock sources were more effective than others. All sources were very fresh, and were more or less straight from the ocean to my tank. I have experienced no notable results with rock seasoned at my LFS, but that isn’t something I explored deeply. I think that very mature rock, sand or gunk from a very mature reef tank may accomplish the same thing, but it of course depends on the biodiversity – which is hard to guess at. It’s not hard to guess at the biodiversity of live rock straight from the ocean on or near reefs.
Bacteria in a bottle: Before investing in actual live rock and sand, I did a lot of dosing with several bacteria in a bottle products (Macrobacter 7 and similar). It’s hard for me to feel that I’ve gotten anything other than inconclusive results. I’ve gone through periods of improvements while dosing it, and periods of decline while dosing it. That said, Macrobacter is part of my long term plan for staying on the winning side of the war on Dinos and I dose it daily. I think there are less effective ways of using it (see UV section below).
Get to Know Your Enemy
The folks in this thread have been great since day 1 in strongly advising people to ID their Dinos. However, elsewhere in other threads, social media posts, Twitters, Snapchats, etc. Dinos are treated as though the treatment is always the same. It most definitely is NOT.
Beyond just ID’ing your Dinos, observe them! Learn how they react to changes you make! You may have a mix of species, or you may have a species that is acting out of character. I would suggest setting up a diary, new Note on your phone, note in your Apex, etc. and make notes of any changes you see.
Use UV Smartly
UV is definitely considered as a major weapon against Dinos, depending on species. And in cases where it doesn’t push them back single-handedly, it’s often encouraged as one part of a multi-pronged attack. At the very least, it certainly doesn’t hurt anything, right?
I’d like to propose another take on UV. See if it helps against your Dino species. If yours goes into the water column at night, it should help; in theory at least.
My Prorocentrum did indeed move into the water column at night. You’d think I’d be slaying them with my UV but I wasn’t. I went with a very nice, oversized, overpowered UV, plumbed correctly into my display and main return. Perhaps it did something, but it didn’t enough for me to really take notice. Hopefully you have different luck.
I always wanted to make bacteria my main weapon (aside from raising phosphates) against Dinos. But I don’t think my bacteria tactics were successful until I took my UV offline. I know UV won’t kill beneficial bacteria that’s living on surfaces like rock and sand; but I believe it is a huge problem when you’re adding new bacteria that hasn’t yet settled onto surfaces.
In my experience fighting Prorocentrum with bacteria, UV held me back.
Question Your Test Kits
I made a big mistake of being misled by my test kits. As most of us know, Phosphate is key in beating Dinos. I did indeed find that .10 was the tipping point for my tank. It took me forever to go from undetectable to .10. I was dosing absurd amounts of phosphates to get there. The problem became maintaining a level that kept the Dinos away.
I was convinced I was some kind of master reefer, because I had my phosphates on lockdown at .12 for about a year. Then I started to question things. How is it I have them so stable? I sent off an ICP test and grabbed a Hanna checker and discovered that my Red Sea Phosphate test kits are a total joke. I did a bunch of research and found that this is a very well known thing with the Red Sea Phosphate test. It really likes to give a reading of .08. I was perceiving that color as .12. My Phosphate was actually .30.
My main point with test kits is to cross check them. I would also advise using a Hanna Checker and use good testing techniques and watch how you rinse and store the vials. You can get completely inaccurate readings by rinsing them and storing them incorrectly (ask me how I know).
A REAL End Game Strategy
One thing that frustrated me a bit with this thread was that I never really saw anyone explain good end game plan. Plenty of ways to fight Dinos, but no clear way to BEAT Dinos for good.
I’m now of the belief that you just don’t flat our beat them for good. You give other things the ability to outcompete them. And I’m not talking about algae. I know after so many hours in reading this thread that when you start seeing signs of hair algae, that’s considered a victory. Well… I hate hair algae. Hate. It. The other things I like to use to outcompete Dinos are bacteria.
This is my strategy for beating Dinos for good:
You get the point. I believe in live rock. Think about it though… The vast majority of people in this thread started their tanks with dry rock and dry sand. I did. It would be foolish for me to think that a diverse set of marine microbes would magically appear in my tank and take over. Cycling your tank and establishing nitrifying bacteria does not = a healthy marine biodiversity. And sure, adding coral frags, inverts and fish all add marine microbes but it is NOT enough for proper biodiversity in most cases. Those that haven’t had Dinos in a dry rock / dry sand tank have probably insta-tanked and added a TON of corals right off the bat, or they just haven’t gotten Dinos YET.
I’ve been running saltwater tanks for 25 years and the only tank I’ve ever had Dinos in is the one that started with dry rock and dry sand. I’m currently running 2 other reef tanks that were started with live rock and neither tank has ever had Dinos.
I know people are also very skeptical of anything you have to “keep adding”, like bacteria in a bottle products. I understand the skepticism. But biodiversity does not always improve over time. A reef tank that does not have a steady supply of new corals and additions is probably a reef tank that is declining in biodiversity.
Conclusion & My Tank Info
Thank you to @mcarrol and @taricha for your MASSIVE contributions in helping us keep Dinos at bay. The natural approach is exactly what I was looking for, and I’m grateful for finding this thread. Obviously there are many others that have stepped up in helping people in this thread, but I’ve been lurking in the older end of this thread more than the recent end.
My tank:
Dinos and Cyano appeared in my tank about 2.5 years ago. This was 6 months or so after starting the tank. They were light in numbers for a long time and increased over a long period of time. They’ve never been super bad, but at their worst, I had probably 80% sandbed coverage and they were just choking out a few corals, though the impact on corals was minimal overall. I lost quite a few of my CUC at the worst times.
My treatment began with raising phosphates. After months of dosing ridiculous amounts on a doser, I began to get a reading on test kits. Once I hit .10, they began receding immediately.
I held them back for months and pretty much forgot I ever had them. I added a powerful UV. The Phosphates crept back down toward zero again and back came the Dinos.
I bought a microscope and self-ID’d as Prorocentrum.
The 2nd onslaught was more intense. I know Dinos don’t get smarter and more powerful like aliens do when they invade planets, but you would think so. Hitting .10 again did not push them back like the first time. Adding powerful UV didn’t help. After getting ICP tests done, I learned my Phosphates were being maintained around .30 and that wasn’t pushing them back. It wasn’t until I hit my tank with multiple rounds of live rock, live sand and bacteria in a bottle that I began to see them push back.
They’re a non-issue now and I’m not scared of them anymore.
A few last totally random notes
Keep calm and battle on!!
Again, these are just my own experiences – your battle may vary.
I’ve ID’d my Dinos as Prorocentrum, so my experiences may not apply to other species.
Bacteria is Key
I know that competing bacteria is not a new concept at all. But for a notion that gets thrown around a lot, there aren’t a lot of solutions being discussed of HOW to start adding bacteria that can compete with Dinos.
Inoculation – Live Rock or Live Sand: if you’re already bored by my post, I don’t blame you. But at least read this paragraph before you leave. Aside from raising phosphates above .10 this was my primary weapon for beating Dinos.
Over an 8 month span, I’ve added:
- Wonder Mud and Live Sand Activator from IPSF.com.
- Live Rock Rubble from aquabiomics.com
- Live Rock from kpaquatics.com
- Branch rock (live rock purchased from my LFS)
You could write this experience off as a coincidence, but not when you can repeat it. I could knock Dinos back over and over by simply adding new pieces of live rock. Some live rock sources were more effective than others. All sources were very fresh, and were more or less straight from the ocean to my tank. I have experienced no notable results with rock seasoned at my LFS, but that isn’t something I explored deeply. I think that very mature rock, sand or gunk from a very mature reef tank may accomplish the same thing, but it of course depends on the biodiversity – which is hard to guess at. It’s not hard to guess at the biodiversity of live rock straight from the ocean on or near reefs.
Bacteria in a bottle: Before investing in actual live rock and sand, I did a lot of dosing with several bacteria in a bottle products (Macrobacter 7 and similar). It’s hard for me to feel that I’ve gotten anything other than inconclusive results. I’ve gone through periods of improvements while dosing it, and periods of decline while dosing it. That said, Macrobacter is part of my long term plan for staying on the winning side of the war on Dinos and I dose it daily. I think there are less effective ways of using it (see UV section below).
Get to Know Your Enemy
The folks in this thread have been great since day 1 in strongly advising people to ID their Dinos. However, elsewhere in other threads, social media posts, Twitters, Snapchats, etc. Dinos are treated as though the treatment is always the same. It most definitely is NOT.
Beyond just ID’ing your Dinos, observe them! Learn how they react to changes you make! You may have a mix of species, or you may have a species that is acting out of character. I would suggest setting up a diary, new Note on your phone, note in your Apex, etc. and make notes of any changes you see.
Use UV Smartly
UV is definitely considered as a major weapon against Dinos, depending on species. And in cases where it doesn’t push them back single-handedly, it’s often encouraged as one part of a multi-pronged attack. At the very least, it certainly doesn’t hurt anything, right?
I’d like to propose another take on UV. See if it helps against your Dino species. If yours goes into the water column at night, it should help; in theory at least.
My Prorocentrum did indeed move into the water column at night. You’d think I’d be slaying them with my UV but I wasn’t. I went with a very nice, oversized, overpowered UV, plumbed correctly into my display and main return. Perhaps it did something, but it didn’t enough for me to really take notice. Hopefully you have different luck.
I always wanted to make bacteria my main weapon (aside from raising phosphates) against Dinos. But I don’t think my bacteria tactics were successful until I took my UV offline. I know UV won’t kill beneficial bacteria that’s living on surfaces like rock and sand; but I believe it is a huge problem when you’re adding new bacteria that hasn’t yet settled onto surfaces.
In my experience fighting Prorocentrum with bacteria, UV held me back.
Question Your Test Kits
I made a big mistake of being misled by my test kits. As most of us know, Phosphate is key in beating Dinos. I did indeed find that .10 was the tipping point for my tank. It took me forever to go from undetectable to .10. I was dosing absurd amounts of phosphates to get there. The problem became maintaining a level that kept the Dinos away.
I was convinced I was some kind of master reefer, because I had my phosphates on lockdown at .12 for about a year. Then I started to question things. How is it I have them so stable? I sent off an ICP test and grabbed a Hanna checker and discovered that my Red Sea Phosphate test kits are a total joke. I did a bunch of research and found that this is a very well known thing with the Red Sea Phosphate test. It really likes to give a reading of .08. I was perceiving that color as .12. My Phosphate was actually .30.
My main point with test kits is to cross check them. I would also advise using a Hanna Checker and use good testing techniques and watch how you rinse and store the vials. You can get completely inaccurate readings by rinsing them and storing them incorrectly (ask me how I know).
A REAL End Game Strategy
One thing that frustrated me a bit with this thread was that I never really saw anyone explain good end game plan. Plenty of ways to fight Dinos, but no clear way to BEAT Dinos for good.
I’m now of the belief that you just don’t flat our beat them for good. You give other things the ability to outcompete them. And I’m not talking about algae. I know after so many hours in reading this thread that when you start seeing signs of hair algae, that’s considered a victory. Well… I hate hair algae. Hate. It. The other things I like to use to outcompete Dinos are bacteria.
This is my strategy for beating Dinos for good:
- Keep phosphates above .10 for a LONG time
- Don’t let Phosphates dip below .10 until you’ve established biodiversity (see below)
- Make 100% sure your Dinos are receding before assuming you’ve reached the right Phosphate level. You may require more than .10 (or your tests may be inaccurate)
- Start adding live rock
- Do not rely on bacteria in a bottle for a cure
- Add more live rock
- Make sure your Phosphates don’t creep down
- Add more live rock
You get the point. I believe in live rock. Think about it though… The vast majority of people in this thread started their tanks with dry rock and dry sand. I did. It would be foolish for me to think that a diverse set of marine microbes would magically appear in my tank and take over. Cycling your tank and establishing nitrifying bacteria does not = a healthy marine biodiversity. And sure, adding coral frags, inverts and fish all add marine microbes but it is NOT enough for proper biodiversity in most cases. Those that haven’t had Dinos in a dry rock / dry sand tank have probably insta-tanked and added a TON of corals right off the bat, or they just haven’t gotten Dinos YET.
I’ve been running saltwater tanks for 25 years and the only tank I’ve ever had Dinos in is the one that started with dry rock and dry sand. I’m currently running 2 other reef tanks that were started with live rock and neither tank has ever had Dinos.
I know people are also very skeptical of anything you have to “keep adding”, like bacteria in a bottle products. I understand the skepticism. But biodiversity does not always improve over time. A reef tank that does not have a steady supply of new corals and additions is probably a reef tank that is declining in biodiversity.
Conclusion & My Tank Info
Thank you to @mcarrol and @taricha for your MASSIVE contributions in helping us keep Dinos at bay. The natural approach is exactly what I was looking for, and I’m grateful for finding this thread. Obviously there are many others that have stepped up in helping people in this thread, but I’ve been lurking in the older end of this thread more than the recent end.
My tank:
- Red Sea 425XL
- Mixed reef (SPS, LPS, softies)
- Started with dry rock / dry sand
Dinos and Cyano appeared in my tank about 2.5 years ago. This was 6 months or so after starting the tank. They were light in numbers for a long time and increased over a long period of time. They’ve never been super bad, but at their worst, I had probably 80% sandbed coverage and they were just choking out a few corals, though the impact on corals was minimal overall. I lost quite a few of my CUC at the worst times.
My treatment began with raising phosphates. After months of dosing ridiculous amounts on a doser, I began to get a reading on test kits. Once I hit .10, they began receding immediately.
I held them back for months and pretty much forgot I ever had them. I added a powerful UV. The Phosphates crept back down toward zero again and back came the Dinos.
I bought a microscope and self-ID’d as Prorocentrum.
The 2nd onslaught was more intense. I know Dinos don’t get smarter and more powerful like aliens do when they invade planets, but you would think so. Hitting .10 again did not push them back like the first time. Adding powerful UV didn’t help. After getting ICP tests done, I learned my Phosphates were being maintained around .30 and that wasn’t pushing them back. It wasn’t until I hit my tank with multiple rounds of live rock, live sand and bacteria in a bottle that I began to see them push back.
They’re a non-issue now and I’m not scared of them anymore.
A few last totally random notes
- My Tail Spot Blenny eats Dinos. Not kidding.
- My Kole Tang eats red stuff, but not sure if he’s after Cyano or not.
- Phyto had no negative impact
- Aminos had no negative impact
- Vibrant had no negative (or in my case, positive) impact. But only used briefly.
Keep calm and battle on!!
We've both been reading (and writing) from the same playbook. I am not at all surprised to hear of your experience with live (ocean) rock. Maybe the pace of recovery was a surprise but not the outcome.
Between the two onslaughts, perhaps your dino species changed. That is a common thing about "relapses".
The only difference worth noting is my experience with aminos and ostreopsis. If I walked by the tank with a bottle of AcroPower my tank would break out.
Here is a link to a document I've been editing for a while on dinos in case you have trouble getting to sleep.
A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide
As the title suggests, this is intended as a short guide on what to do when you suspect dinoflagellates are trying to overtake your system. It is an attempt to boil down the protocols discussed across 11,000 posts in this "Are you Tired" thread along with thousands of other dino threads. I did no...
Biff0rz
Valuable Member
Hi @ScottB & @Reef and Dive ...im back...cry. Not sure if you recall my battle but it's STILL going and I need some more advice. First, things have gotten better, not super great but it's not as bad... but dino is still very present. Can you confirm what kind of dino this currently is? Video from today:
Also, what kind of algea are we looking at beside the dino in the video? Gha?
Background - I had a TON of gha, then cyano - I've removed all of them naturally as best I can except cyano I removed with rsr. Also had dino while that was going. Lca and ostreo. I've been running UV non stop since we last spoke, and since before, low flow, lifeguard 90w (233g tank). If you recall I've been running uv for long before detection and ostreo was present still.
Anyway, fast forward to today. Still got them, confirmed on scope today (vid above). Thing is, they are NOT present on the sandbed nor any of the rocks (at least visibly). I also do not have the classic slime look with trapped bubbles. I've had a lot of gha and have been running gfo to reduce po4 while also picking up 3 hungry and now well fed long spine urchins. They are making good dents in the gha. Params have been stable, though, nitrates are a bit higher than I desire. Coraline algea has been increasing and the fuzz doesn't stick to it well.
What I've noticed is I have a bunch of fuzz everywhere. It looks like dead gha. I took a sample today and that's what's in the video. It keeps coming back. I've been removing it manually but making little to no progress. I feel like I'm close to balancing the tank and getting rid of dino, but I need like one final punch to put it over the edge. I've been running my uv for 265 days straight. Do you think a 3 day black out will help me at this point? If not, what should be my next step? I feel like I'm so close and don't want to regress. Pics attached of things with the fuzz on them. You'll also see some fresh gha - and the gha used to be reallllllly bad, like everything was covered badly. Also, included a sandbed shot. I have a small bloom of diatoms showing up.
Po4 has been steady between 0.05-0.15ppm (no 0's, tested daily)
No3 has been steady between 10-30ppm (no 0's, tested daily)
Alk 8.5-9 dkh (test every 6hrs)
Ca/mg 500/1500 (weekly)
Sg 35ppt
78*
PH 8-8.20
Also, what kind of algea are we looking at beside the dino in the video? Gha?
Background - I had a TON of gha, then cyano - I've removed all of them naturally as best I can except cyano I removed with rsr. Also had dino while that was going. Lca and ostreo. I've been running UV non stop since we last spoke, and since before, low flow, lifeguard 90w (233g tank). If you recall I've been running uv for long before detection and ostreo was present still.
Anyway, fast forward to today. Still got them, confirmed on scope today (vid above). Thing is, they are NOT present on the sandbed nor any of the rocks (at least visibly). I also do not have the classic slime look with trapped bubbles. I've had a lot of gha and have been running gfo to reduce po4 while also picking up 3 hungry and now well fed long spine urchins. They are making good dents in the gha. Params have been stable, though, nitrates are a bit higher than I desire. Coraline algea has been increasing and the fuzz doesn't stick to it well.
What I've noticed is I have a bunch of fuzz everywhere. It looks like dead gha. I took a sample today and that's what's in the video. It keeps coming back. I've been removing it manually but making little to no progress. I feel like I'm close to balancing the tank and getting rid of dino, but I need like one final punch to put it over the edge. I've been running my uv for 265 days straight. Do you think a 3 day black out will help me at this point? If not, what should be my next step? I feel like I'm so close and don't want to regress. Pics attached of things with the fuzz on them. You'll also see some fresh gha - and the gha used to be reallllllly bad, like everything was covered badly. Also, included a sandbed shot. I have a small bloom of diatoms showing up.
Po4 has been steady between 0.05-0.15ppm (no 0's, tested daily)
No3 has been steady between 10-30ppm (no 0's, tested daily)
Alk 8.5-9 dkh (test every 6hrs)
Ca/mg 500/1500 (weekly)
Sg 35ppt
78*
PH 8-8.20
Last edited:
Hi @ScottB & @Reef and Dive ...im back...cry. Not sure if you recall my battle but it's STILL going and I need some more advice. First, things have gotten better, not super great but it's not as bad... but dino is still very present. Can you confirm what kind of dino this currently is? Video from today:
Also, what kind of algea are we looking at beside the dino in the video? Gha?
Background - I had a TON of gha, then cyano - I've removed all of them naturally as best I can except cyano I removed with rsr. Also had dino while that was going. Lca and ostreo. I've been running UV non stop since we last spoke, and since before, low flow, lifeguard 90w (233g tank). If you recall I've been running uv for long before detection and ostreo was present still.
Anyway, fast forward to today. Still got them, confirmed on scope today (vid above). Thing is, they are NOT present on the sandbed nor any of the rocks (at least visibly). I also do not have the classic slime look with trapped bubbles. I've had a lot of gha and have been running gfo to reduce po4 while also picking up 3 hungry and now well fed long spine urchins. They are making good dents in the gha. Params have been stable, though, nitrates are a bit higher than I desire. Coraline algea has been increasing and the fuzz doesn't stick to it well.
What I've noticed is I have a bunch of fuzz everywhere. It looks like dead gha. I took a sample today and that's what's in the video. It keeps coming back. I've been removing it manually but making little to no progress. I feel like I'm close to balancing the tank and getting rid of dino, but I need like one final punch to put it over the edge. I've been running my uv for 265 days straight. Do you think a 3 day black out will help me at this point? If not, what should be my next step? I feel like I'm so close and don't want to regress. Pics attached of things with the fuzz on them. You'll also see some fresh gha - and the gha used to be reallllllly bad, like everything was covered badly. Also, included a sandbed shot. I have a small bloom of diatoms showing up.
Po4 has been steady between 0.05-0.15ppm (no 0's, tested daily)
No3 has been steady between 10-30ppm (no 0's, tested daily)
Alk 8.5-9 dkh (test every 6hrs)
Ca/mg 500/1500 (weekly)
Sg 35ppt
78*
PH 8-8.20
See my reply in your build thread, but yeah it looks like you are coming around the corner. I don't advise looking for a knockout punch on the dinos. There are several rounds left in the fight and your repeated body blows are adding up points.
As to the dinos, I see a variety. LC Amphids, SC Amphids, only ONE ostreo, and POSSIBLE prorocentrum but this is easily confused with LCA.
Adding on more live microorganism diversity with some rubble/rock/mud is a fine way to add points to the fight. If you are not dosing silicates you should consider that. It feeds many competitors, not just diatoms.
As to GHA, I just count that as part of the uglies given my speculation that your "live" rock was more like "cured" rock and at 13-14 months GHA would be almost expected.
Here comes some blasphemy for you, but given that you are currently FOWLR, a touch of Vibrant or AlgeaFix (same thing, honestly) will clear up that algae. Wait on corals until the algae and the algaecide has been removed.
Dulcolaxiom
Community Member
@ScottB and @taricha
So you don’t know me, but for the last 3 weeks I’ve been closely watching some small brown threads appear on my algae on the rocks, and get tangled up in my Xenia stalks. I’ve long suspected it’s Dinos, but just today was able to borrow a microscope from a coworker (I’m a HS Math Teacher). My Nitrate is almost always 5-10 and my Phosphate has jumped around from 0.0 to 0.15. It’s weird. Can either of you help confirm what I’m seeing and give me an ID? I’m suspecting a species but I’d like to know what you think.
https://youtube.com/shorts/DYtyX-z8q5U?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/4IGl-DLzzCU?feature=share
The pictures are from just a sample of brown epiphytic gunk off of the turf algae, and the videos are from a chuck of stuff that occasionally forms a collar around my Xenia stalks.
The direct sample of epiphytic brown mush looks to be all or mostly Dino, while the gunk off the Xenia looks to be a mix of things.
I take it as a good sign that it looks like I have copepods and nematodes and amphibians in the Xenia gunk, and I can also see some diatoms in there amongst the algae pile - but there’s clearly some Dinos as well.
Any next steps you would recommend? I’ve attached a picture of what it looks like in the tank, as I think I’ve had it before earlier in the summer but just let it be and resolved to feed a bit lighter, and it went away.
So you don’t know me, but for the last 3 weeks I’ve been closely watching some small brown threads appear on my algae on the rocks, and get tangled up in my Xenia stalks. I’ve long suspected it’s Dinos, but just today was able to borrow a microscope from a coworker (I’m a HS Math Teacher). My Nitrate is almost always 5-10 and my Phosphate has jumped around from 0.0 to 0.15. It’s weird. Can either of you help confirm what I’m seeing and give me an ID? I’m suspecting a species but I’d like to know what you think.
https://youtube.com/shorts/DYtyX-z8q5U?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/4IGl-DLzzCU?feature=share
The pictures are from just a sample of brown epiphytic gunk off of the turf algae, and the videos are from a chuck of stuff that occasionally forms a collar around my Xenia stalks.
The direct sample of epiphytic brown mush looks to be all or mostly Dino, while the gunk off the Xenia looks to be a mix of things.
I take it as a good sign that it looks like I have copepods and nematodes and amphibians in the Xenia gunk, and I can also see some diatoms in there amongst the algae pile - but there’s clearly some Dinos as well.
Any next steps you would recommend? I’ve attached a picture of what it looks like in the tank, as I think I’ve had it before earlier in the summer but just let it be and resolved to feed a bit lighter, and it went away.
Thank you for teaching math. I hope you enjoy it and that you are good at it.@ScottB and @taricha
So you don’t know me, but for the last 3 weeks I’ve been closely watching some small brown threads appear on my algae on the rocks, and get tangled up in my Xenia stalks. I’ve long suspected it’s Dinos, but just today was able to borrow a microscope from a coworker (I’m a HS Math Teacher). My Nitrate is almost always 5-10 and my Phosphate has jumped around from 0.0 to 0.15. It’s weird. Can either of you help confirm what I’m seeing and give me an ID? I’m suspecting a species but I’d like to know what you think.
https://youtube.com/shorts/DYtyX-z8q5U?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/4IGl-DLzzCU?feature=share
The pictures are from just a sample of brown epiphytic gunk off of the turf algae, and the videos are from a chuck of stuff that occasionally forms a collar around my Xenia stalks.
The direct sample of epiphytic brown mush looks to be all or mostly Dino, while the gunk off the Xenia looks to be a mix of things.
I take it as a good sign that it looks like I have copepods and nematodes and amphibians in the Xenia gunk, and I can also see some diatoms in there amongst the algae pile - but there’s clearly some Dinos as well.
Any next steps you would recommend? I’ve attached a picture of what it looks like in the tank, as I think I’ve had it before earlier in the summer but just let it be and resolved to feed a bit lighter, and it went away.
Still still pics are certainly ostreopsis. The videos are less conclusive; I might think I see a small cell amphidinium and a large cell amphidinium, but I certainly see another ostreo due to the swim pattern.
In some earlier posts, you will see that I linked a treatment guide that is a good place to start. Sorry it is a bit long.
Dulcolaxiom
Community Member
Thanks! I did see your guide. I’ve been changing a lot about the tank lately, trying some aminos and I stirred the sandbed too strongly while my phosphate was low. Thinking the aminos kicked up the NO3 and knocked down the PO4 as a result. I think I might try picking up a UV Sterilizer and then just trying to keep my hands out of the tank. No more aminos. Feed fish within reason. Change filter floss often. Dose Phyto and Microbacter for diversity. Stuff like that. Fish and corals and snails all look and act healthy currently.Thank you for teaching math. I hope you enjoy it and that you are good at it.
Still still pics are certainly ostreopsis. The videos are less conclusive; I might think I see a small cell amphidinium and a large cell amphidinium, but I certainly see another ostreo due to the swim pattern.
In some earlier posts, you will see that I linked a treatment guide that is a good place to start. Sorry it is a bit long.
My tank is a 20G Cube, do you have any recommended UV Sterilizers? Would the Little Green Machine work for this application? I’m trying to find one that I don’t have to plumb in as there’s not much space in the AIO.
@ScottB ostreos back again. as soon as i increase the light, a couple of day and they come back. i'm using UV h24
so, now i have a huge amount of LC Amphids and some ostreos growing.
Fauna DinoX did nothing. it's like water, a useless product (i don't know a single person that had success with this product)
so, now i have a huge amount of LC Amphids and some ostreos growing.
Fauna DinoX did nothing. it's like water, a useless product (i don't know a single person that had success with this product)
In addition to this, now I can see some dinos even on glass, like a huge brown spot (not really sure it's dino, but they have bubbles).
I've stopped dosing everything (even ZeoBak), just to be sure. Carbon dosing is known to help dinos ? Not really sure but it seems that this new dino outbreak started a couple of days after zeostart dosing.
Any help ?
@ScottB
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There are a few cases of people getting bad dino outbreaks with zeo... I don't think the correlation between dinos and all forms of carbon dosing is super strong. More of a gray area for me. I mean, I have suppressed dinos and cyano (at least temporarily) with huge doses of vodka + vinegar.
But if you see the effect in your system, you are correct to stop zeo.
The dino in these videos is large cell amphidinium, I believe. the tiny zooming cells are not a problem dino.
@taricha thank you. as i'm battling with Dino almost from the cycle of the tank 18mobths ago), i would like to fix this ASAP before starting full triton method (let's keep zeovit for a much further time)
any idea? lowering the lights doesn't solve anything.
any idea? lowering the lights doesn't solve anything.
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check the guide by ScottB in the post quoted below. It's a pretty good summary of the thinking and practice on dealing with dinos.
Here is a link to a document I've been editing for a while on dinos ...
A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide
As the title suggests, this is intended as a short guide on what to do when you suspect dinoflagellates are trying to overtake your system. It is an attempt to boil down the protocols discussed across 11,000 posts in this "Are you Tired" thread along with thousands of other dino threads. I did no...docs.google.com
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