ReefMan692
Active Member
Everyone seems to recommend ideal Phosphate to be under 0.1 and it seems difficult for me to get mine there. I was happy to see 0.07, I feel like that is a good number, but obviously very disappointed that I let my nitrates get so depleted.. The thing is, I definitely don't disagree with your assessment, I think you are 110% correct and a lot of the other information I have read over the past 6 months is actually a bit off. I think obsessing over the phosphates being "high" (in my mind, based on information I have read from multiple places) is what led to the overall problems which I kind of acknowledged in my OP
As an update, today I went lights off -- it's been a while since I've done that and I figure that would be a quick way to stunt this since it hasn't overwhelmed the tank at this point while developing a more robust approach for handling it fully. I also began doing a treatment of Kalkwasser in the ATO following instructions I read on battling Dino's that seemed credible enough not sure which thread it was in. The goal of the kalkwasser dosing was to get my PH up to a range of 8.4, I am following the instructions precisely and added one teaspoon per gallon of ATO, I am supposed to double it and then tripple it if needed to get to 8.4 over the course of a few days.
I have some experience with the Kalk, and I know for my system it is difficult to use at the current time because I lack real solid 'uptake' of the alkalinity, so while it may raise my pH, the issue is it is also going to raise my alkalinity/calcium and I don't have much to consume it at least not at a rate fast enough to keep up with what is required to shift my ph 4 points
So I am kind of monitoring that closely, as of today my PH has risen to about 8.15 (apparently the target to kill the dinos is 8.4). The alkalinity, which had previously dipped a little low down to 8 (not that low, but I prefer 9) is now back up to 9 and that took place over the course of about 24 hours. So at this point I am hesitant to 'double the dose' of the Kalkwasser as per the instructions because I lack the alkalinity/calcium uptake.
Last night I also began to dose the Neonitro and I have been slow-dosing it through out the day at various times. So that's been going for 24 hours now as well.
I fed a little more rigorously today, which I had been being stingy about while still keeping my fish fed multiple times per today. Today I was a little more cavalier with the feeding, a few cubes in the morning and another one in the evening (yikes!) but I skipped the smaller in-between feeds that usually make up the day. Balancing the health of the 26 fish inhabitants while keeping the phosphate and nitrate low enough for my corals is an on going struggle.
In hindsight, I wish I had taken it a little easier on the fish stocking, but we all have our own dream for what our reefs should be, sometimes reality says 'Not so fast'.
My clean up crew was at work today, hermits & snails, urchin, some turbos actually they were munching down pretty good so that makes me hopeful -- I'm a little confused what they are eating though. I guess it's not always black and white your tank isn't all dinos and no algae, but things do start to tip one way or the other and it seemed like the Dino's were "coming on" so I don't think I'm over-reacting by taking action.
Some good news: Dino's were not readily apparent in the tank today, the red snotty strands that were popping up on glass and sand and rocks was not readily visible but that could be a product of the lights being out (not a total blackout, there was residual room light) for most of the day besides for a few minutes when I fed the fish. When I had the light on for a few minutes, I could still see vertical strands with bubbles on top on a few of the rocks.
Okay, so to address a few other things:
On Chemiclean: I ended the chemiclean treatment, it's only a 24 hour treatment anyways, I turned GAC on I'm probably not going to do the recommended water change. I don't think it does as much harm as you seem to think it does as I have succesfully applied the treatment for actual Cyano in my bedroom tank (a smaller, 35 gallon tank) which is actually fairing quite well these days as far as a mixed reef goes. It had a bit of green algae before the treatment and retains some green algae now still even after that treatment. It knocked out the Cyano for me and I followed the instructions and didn't over do anything.
The main difference between the little tank in my bedroom and the larger main tank is that the little tank has no bells and whistles. It's got an oversized skimmer and thats about it. I dont' even know the numbers but low and behold that tank is performing just fine. Goes to show you!
So Obviously in this case the chemiclean was a bad move in my larger DT because what I thought initially was Cyano turned out to be Dinos. I don't think this move will result in any long lasting disruption of my tanks ecosystem as that has not been my previous experience with the product -- just throwing that out there for anyone who comes along and reads later down the road.
The Algae Scrubber: I invested in the scrubber because I struggled to get Macro Algae going in my refugium and I think of it as an integral part of the nutrient control. I was getting desperate for phosphate control (again, 0.2 is "Bad" according to many people). The scrubber itself is about 4 weeks old and it has been struggling to grow algae about as much as I was struggling to grow chaeto. Well of course, if my nitrates have been hovering near zero that kind of makes sense in retrospect. So, the scrubber is still mostly white with not a lot of growth, I am still attempting to get it going maybe this is the perfect opportunity if I can manage to promote algae growth to fight out the dino's.
Would there be a good reason not to grow some kind of algae in the fuge? Rather grow it there than in the DT right?
Oh No its Phosguard & GFO -- I guess I did get a little carried away=!P
Lanthanum Chloride
I have stopped dosing the LC for about 3 or 4 days now especially since this began, I was dosing it pretty heavily for a while but everyone recommends Phosphate to be under 0.1 and it seems difficult for me to get mine there. LC does seem to be what helped drive my Phosphate under the 0.1 range which I think a lot of people would say 0.07 is perfect phosphate. I agree with you that it's a tool for the tool belt to be used but I might need to be a bit less 'cavalier' with it.
Microscope: I had a foray into beer making and I splurged on a silly microscope I barely used for identifying yeast cultures so I got a good picture of the stuff this morning it's on my cell, I'll update the post with it soon.
I am going to follow your instructions and appreciate the heck out of you for taking the time to give such a detailed response, I am trying to be a little light hearted about my trials and tribulations but to also document them for future readers -- I would love to hear your feedback on the Kalkwasser ATO "PH" treatment that I mentioned at the top of this post -- do you think that can be successful? I already kind of know that I can't do it enough to get PH to 8.4 because I lack consumers for the Calcium and Alkalinity. Do you think there is any validity to raising the PH up when fighting the Dinos?
I'll report back as things go, but I think I'll end up winning this thing
As an update, today I went lights off -- it's been a while since I've done that and I figure that would be a quick way to stunt this since it hasn't overwhelmed the tank at this point while developing a more robust approach for handling it fully. I also began doing a treatment of Kalkwasser in the ATO following instructions I read on battling Dino's that seemed credible enough not sure which thread it was in. The goal of the kalkwasser dosing was to get my PH up to a range of 8.4, I am following the instructions precisely and added one teaspoon per gallon of ATO, I am supposed to double it and then tripple it if needed to get to 8.4 over the course of a few days.
I have some experience with the Kalk, and I know for my system it is difficult to use at the current time because I lack real solid 'uptake' of the alkalinity, so while it may raise my pH, the issue is it is also going to raise my alkalinity/calcium and I don't have much to consume it at least not at a rate fast enough to keep up with what is required to shift my ph 4 points
So I am kind of monitoring that closely, as of today my PH has risen to about 8.15 (apparently the target to kill the dinos is 8.4). The alkalinity, which had previously dipped a little low down to 8 (not that low, but I prefer 9) is now back up to 9 and that took place over the course of about 24 hours. So at this point I am hesitant to 'double the dose' of the Kalkwasser as per the instructions because I lack the alkalinity/calcium uptake.
Last night I also began to dose the Neonitro and I have been slow-dosing it through out the day at various times. So that's been going for 24 hours now as well.
I fed a little more rigorously today, which I had been being stingy about while still keeping my fish fed multiple times per today. Today I was a little more cavalier with the feeding, a few cubes in the morning and another one in the evening (yikes!) but I skipped the smaller in-between feeds that usually make up the day. Balancing the health of the 26 fish inhabitants while keeping the phosphate and nitrate low enough for my corals is an on going struggle.
In hindsight, I wish I had taken it a little easier on the fish stocking, but we all have our own dream for what our reefs should be, sometimes reality says 'Not so fast'.
My clean up crew was at work today, hermits & snails, urchin, some turbos actually they were munching down pretty good so that makes me hopeful -- I'm a little confused what they are eating though. I guess it's not always black and white your tank isn't all dinos and no algae, but things do start to tip one way or the other and it seemed like the Dino's were "coming on" so I don't think I'm over-reacting by taking action.
Some good news: Dino's were not readily apparent in the tank today, the red snotty strands that were popping up on glass and sand and rocks was not readily visible but that could be a product of the lights being out (not a total blackout, there was residual room light) for most of the day besides for a few minutes when I fed the fish. When I had the light on for a few minutes, I could still see vertical strands with bubbles on top on a few of the rocks.
Okay, so to address a few other things:
On Chemiclean: I ended the chemiclean treatment, it's only a 24 hour treatment anyways, I turned GAC on I'm probably not going to do the recommended water change. I don't think it does as much harm as you seem to think it does as I have succesfully applied the treatment for actual Cyano in my bedroom tank (a smaller, 35 gallon tank) which is actually fairing quite well these days as far as a mixed reef goes. It had a bit of green algae before the treatment and retains some green algae now still even after that treatment. It knocked out the Cyano for me and I followed the instructions and didn't over do anything.
The main difference between the little tank in my bedroom and the larger main tank is that the little tank has no bells and whistles. It's got an oversized skimmer and thats about it. I dont' even know the numbers but low and behold that tank is performing just fine. Goes to show you!
So Obviously in this case the chemiclean was a bad move in my larger DT because what I thought initially was Cyano turned out to be Dinos. I don't think this move will result in any long lasting disruption of my tanks ecosystem as that has not been my previous experience with the product -- just throwing that out there for anyone who comes along and reads later down the road.
The Algae Scrubber: I invested in the scrubber because I struggled to get Macro Algae going in my refugium and I think of it as an integral part of the nutrient control. I was getting desperate for phosphate control (again, 0.2 is "Bad" according to many people). The scrubber itself is about 4 weeks old and it has been struggling to grow algae about as much as I was struggling to grow chaeto. Well of course, if my nitrates have been hovering near zero that kind of makes sense in retrospect. So, the scrubber is still mostly white with not a lot of growth, I am still attempting to get it going maybe this is the perfect opportunity if I can manage to promote algae growth to fight out the dino's.
Would there be a good reason not to grow some kind of algae in the fuge? Rather grow it there than in the DT right?
Oh No its Phosguard & GFO -- I guess I did get a little carried away=!P
Lanthanum Chloride
I have stopped dosing the LC for about 3 or 4 days now especially since this began, I was dosing it pretty heavily for a while but everyone recommends Phosphate to be under 0.1 and it seems difficult for me to get mine there. LC does seem to be what helped drive my Phosphate under the 0.1 range which I think a lot of people would say 0.07 is perfect phosphate. I agree with you that it's a tool for the tool belt to be used but I might need to be a bit less 'cavalier' with it.
Microscope: I had a foray into beer making and I splurged on a silly microscope I barely used for identifying yeast cultures so I got a good picture of the stuff this morning it's on my cell, I'll update the post with it soon.
I am going to follow your instructions and appreciate the heck out of you for taking the time to give such a detailed response, I am trying to be a little light hearted about my trials and tribulations but to also document them for future readers -- I would love to hear your feedback on the Kalkwasser ATO "PH" treatment that I mentioned at the top of this post -- do you think that can be successful? I already kind of know that I can't do it enough to get PH to 8.4 because I lack consumers for the Calcium and Alkalinity. Do you think there is any validity to raising the PH up when fighting the Dinos?
I'll report back as things go, but I think I'll end up winning this thing
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