Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[bishoptf]

After a while I kinda lost my patience and started ramping hard with an auto doser on trisodium phosphate. In my wisdom, I also failed to realize I was running out of Hanna reagent. Once it came in I had clearly overshot to about .25. Once the rock is saturated, it accumulates pretty quick. But no real harm done, just a cyano outbreak which is an expected phase on the road to recovery. I think overdosing nitrates would be a bit more stressful on corals.

How old is your system? Looks pretty new still.

Yeah its been running since June but I ran for the first 4 months with no lights only ambient thinking I was letting things settle in, mentioned in one of the BRS videos etc. Being new I read a bunch and with the pandemic going strong it was hard to get any live rock at the time, no one was shipping so I went with all dry. You don't know what you don't know, but knowing all this I would have been dosing phosphate from the beginning but everything you read talks about keeping it low etc. Yeah I tried raising the temp and some other easy things but nothing has really made a dent. Not sure what change i did but my easy SPS went from doing really well to loosing a birdsnest and my other 2 do not look well so I moved them back to my QT tank hoping I can nurse them back to health. I do have cyano growing in large patches on my rock and I can pull it off but a week later and its comes back. One thing that I had been dosing daily was Tropic Marin all for reef which has traces, since I pulled my SPS I think the Alk will stabilize so I don't have to dose daily but I am in the process of moving over to Kalk but want to do it with a doser vs adding it to my ato.

I have some live rock curing and the plan is to move some over to the tank to replace some of the dry rock, see if that diversity helps things along. I also have some copepods coming, just trying to add as much diversity as I can, I have red macro's in my fuge and it appears to be doing ok, just the Dino's still chugging away, lol.

 

[joshwaggs]

Tank shot (under white light) of the affected area? microscope video?

Side note, probably not relevant here: it is possible to change the look of dinos by using a slide cover incorrectly. If you put your drops of sample and then place the slide cover on, it should be fine. But if you press the slide cover down, it can misshape the cells and also prevent any movement. I've messed that up a few times myself.

I havent gotten it under the microscope again (mostly because I suck at it). I probably did crush them with the slide thing. I feel like a scientist when I am doing it. So, I get carried away.

Im pretty annoyed that people like you and @ScottB havent posted a link for others to download your brains. Quit being selfish.

Here is a picture up close. This was the spot that gave the best picture, but isnt the worst of the growth. It isnt under whites. I expect you guys to be able to identify this stuff in the dark.

 

[Chiz]

I’m starting to lose the will now. Can somebody please ID what type of dino I have. The only thing I’m certain on at the moment is diatoms.

So far I’ve been told
Coolia
Small cell amphidinium
Large cell amphidinium
Ostreopsis - I don’t think it’s this.

 

[ScottB]

I’m starting to lose the will now. Can somebody please ID what type of dino I have. The only thing I’m certain on at the moment is diatoms.

So far I’ve been told
Coolia
Small cell amphidinium
Large cell amphidinium
Ostreopsis - I don’t think it’s this.

Pressed to guess, I would say Coolia. If you can shoot/post video it is easier to confirm. Here is a link to the ID Guide created by @taricha . Check the linked pics and videos to compare movement patterns.

Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Chiz]

Pressed to guess, I would say Coolia. If you can shoot/post video it is easier to confirm. Here is a link to the ID Guide created by @taricha . Check the linked pics and videos to compare movement patterns.

Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks for the link. I’ll have a look later. For some reason I can’t get the video to work.

 

[Chiz]

Pressed to guess, I would say Coolia. If you can shoot/post video it is easier to confirm. Here is a link to the ID Guide created by @taricha . Check the linked pics and videos to compare movement patterns.

Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks for the link. I’ll have a look later. For some reason I can’t get the video to work.

 

[Tjm23slo]

I'd keep some available Si so that diatoms are strong competitors to dinos for any nutrients that become available.

I admit that I skipped to the end of the thread after reading the "end game". To me this has been the most important aspect of the battle. Until the ecosystem is recharged, we keep fighting the fight. For me, heavy vaccination dosing of Probidio BioDigest plus a maintenance dosage has helped tremendously. I still get the occasionally flair up when I go a little overboard with Amino Acids and neglect the bacteria maintenance dosage. I also add Reef bugs every week and a small dosage of NuAlgi.

I get spikes in PO4 and Nitrate when I neglect by Chaeto maintenance in the refugium. Those spike bring in GHA and Turf. Once I get back in line, I am OK.

CUC is all crabs as Snails are crab food. I am 1.5 Hermits per gallon and 1 emerald per 10 Gallons. Once a quarter I am adding in 1 Astrea + 1 large Cerith snail per 10 gallons to provide new shells for the growing hermits.

 

[Tjm23slo]

Thanks for the link. I’ll have a look later. For some reason I can’t get the video to work.

I'd go with treating for Coolia bloom as they look to be the largest type. There might be a small cell Amphidinium in there, but go after the largest first. Dinoflagellates are a symptom on an unhealthy/balanced micro fauna in your tank. The balance between positive and negative or good and bad bacteria, protists, etc. Get back to the basics on feeding. No more reef energy, aminos, or magic coral growth foods. Dosing bacteria like Probidio BioDigest will help increase the good bacteria. In the beginning, I am talking vaccination dosages 6x the label weekly. You have diatoms, but Nualgi is a good silicate to produce more. Adding in Reef Bugs from reef brite and also increase the population of good stuff. When dosing no skimmer or UV for 4 hours, let the bacteria and critters find places to live. Once you see the Coolia bloom dissipate, you can add pods if you want like I hear people talk about. My Chaeto produces enough to not buy them. Rebuilding the ecosystem into a positive place is important.

This is no different than a yard of grass. When conditions are good, you get 1 dandelion. When stressed they show up in hoards with their bad friends. To recover, you need to knock back the bloom and rebuild (seed) the environment with what you want.

 

[ScottB]

Thanks for the link. I’ll have a look later. For some reason I can’t get the video to work.

Helpful video. I am pretty sure it is Coolia with some small cell amphidinium making a cameo appearance.

Won't argue against anything @Tjm23slo suggests around the "end game" but your starting salvo should include:
a) dosing nutrients up to 10 and .1 for NO3 and PO4 (bacteria may need to wait until you get some nutrient going)
b) Hanging a UV on the side of the tank (temporary). 1 watt per 3 gallons. super slow flow (which I why you should not run it in sump via return pump).
c) Consider a lights out to encourage these buggers to take a good swim.

 

[taricha]

Thanks for the link. I’ll have a look later. For some reason I can’t get the video to work.

coolia, spirulina (cyano) and diatoms in your pic and video. (The tiny flagellate in your vid is not a dino, IMO)

 

[joshwaggs]

@ScottB @taricha So I put it under the microscope again, without a slide over it. No movement. It looked like diatoms, but with all the little dots you saw in the previous pictures.

In the last two days though, the PH has jumped from normal 8.3 to 8.65.

What is going on?????

Nitrates 2
Phosphate 0.0
Alkalinity 9.4 (normally 10.2 but I stopped dosing Polyplab ONE because it has acetate)

Corals are mad as hell. Tort STN, Zoas closed, SPS and LPS closed. Anemone is sick too.

This is ridiculous.

Here is a picture under white lights

 

[joshwaggs]

I havent gotten it under the microscope again (mostly because I suck at it). I probably did crush them with the slide thing. I feel like a scientist when I am doing it. So, I get carried away.

Im pretty annoyed that people like you and @ScottB havent posted a link for others to download your brains. Quit being selfish.

Here is a picture up close. This was the spot that gave the best picture, but isnt the worst of the growth. It isnt under whites. I expect you guys to be able to identify this stuff in the dark.

You guys know I was joking in this post, right? I’m not actually annoyed that you didn’t post a link to download your brains

 

[SliceGolfer]

I havent gotten it under the microscope again (mostly because I suck at it). I probably did crush them with the slide thing. I feel like a scientist when I am doing it. So, I get carried away.

Im pretty annoyed that people like you and @ScottB havent posted a link for others to download your brains. Quit being selfish.

Here is a picture up close. This was the spot that gave the best picture, but isnt the worst of the growth. It isnt under whites. I expect you guys to be able to identify this stuff in the dark.

Looks like Chrysophytes. CaribSea Life Rock?

 

[pitvi]

Hi Guys,

so i discovered that i got a serious dino outbreak (obviously thru 0 phosphates).
Here a little video of the dang dinos i made


i got a 20 gallon nano (beta marine compact 40) and the dinos nearly 100% disappearing when the light is off.

So my plan is to take a 13W UV Light that i will put into the tec-back part of the tank (i got no sump). As far as what i read in here it should work, i got a eheim compact 600, so at maximum it should go 7,5 times the tank volume per hour thru it, obviously it's less than 7,5 times so that should be fine for contact time.

i also have active carbon inside now and no skimmer (never had). The corals are doing pretty fine so i dont want to do an additional blackout. The plan is also to blow the dinos off everyday so more of them are free flowing in the water and get more chance to hit the UV.

Also i will try to maintain constant measureable phosphate and nitrate
anyone of you had experience with this UV light? Link

greetings from Austria

Hi guys,

can you help me with my dinos, can you identify them with this video?

i try to bring my phosphates up, and i got a 13W UV lamp that i put into my tech-back of my AIO Tank. Do you think this will help or is too weak/trash to work? UV Lamp Link

best regards
Markus

 

[ReefBeta]

@ScottB @taricha So I put it under the microscope again, without a slide over it. No movement. It looked like diatoms, but with all the little dots you saw in the previous pictures.

In the last two days though, the PH has jumped from normal 8.3 to 8.65.

What is going on?????

Nitrates 2
Phosphate 0.0
Alkalinity 9.4 (normally 10.2 but I stopped dosing Polyplab ONE because it has acetate)

Corals are mad as hell. Tort STN, Zoas closed, SPS and LPS closed. Anemone is sick too.

This is ridiculous.

Here is a picture under white lights

Aren't these hair algae? It looks like hair algae.

 

[ReefBeta]

Helpful video. I am pretty sure it is Coolia with some small cell amphidinium making a cameo appearance.

Won't argue against anything @Tjm23slo suggests around the "end game" but your starting salvo should include:
a) dosing nutrients up to 10 and .1 for NO3 and PO4 (bacteria may need to wait until you get some nutrient going)
b) Hanging a UV on the side of the tank (temporary). 1 watt per 3 gallons. super slow flow (which I why you should not run it in sump via return pump).
c) Consider a lights out to encourage these buggers to take a good swim.

For dino you definitely need super high flow for UV. I run a 57w UV on my 180 gallons and is supposed to bang over 1000gph through it. Unfortunately the 3/4" plumbing make it only possible to 500ish when pump at 100%. But it definitely worked a lot better than when pump was running at 50%

Also it's very important to make sure the sleeve of the UV is clean. It only take two months to build up so much that I can't see through. After cleaned it, the dino almost went away overnight.

 

[homer1475]

@ScottB @taricha So I put it under the microscope again, without a slide over it. No movement. It looked like diatoms, but with all the little dots you saw in the previous pictures.

In the last two days though, the PH has jumped from normal 8.3 to 8.65.

What is going on?????

Nitrates 2
Phosphate 0.0
Alkalinity 9.4 (normally 10.2 but I stopped dosing Polyplab ONE because it has acetate)

Corals are mad as hell. Tort STN, Zoas closed, SPS and LPS closed. Anemone is sick too.

This is ridiculous.

Here is a picture under white lights

I'm not seeing any dino's in those pics. Typically dino's are brown and closely resemble snot with bubbles in them.

That to me looks more like regular old green hair algae, or possibly turf algae since it's so short. Someone above mentioned chrystophytes(sp?), but even they are typically white or brown, not lush green.

 

[homer1475]

For dino you definitely need super high flow for UV. I run a 57w UV on my 180 gallons and is supposed to bang over 1000gph through it. Unfortunately the 3/4" plumbing make it only possible to 500ish when pump at 100%. But it definitely worked a lot better than when pump was running at 50%

Also it's very important to make sure the sleeve of the UV is clean. It only take two months to build up so much that I can't see through. After cleaned it, the dino almost went away overnight.

Wrong, just plain wrong.

Look up flow rates for UV units. For killing bacteria(what dinos are) very slow flow rates are whats suggested. The longer contact times required to kill dino's dictate slow flow rates.

 

[ScottB]

@ScottB @taricha So I put it under the microscope again, without a slide over it. No movement. It looked like diatoms, but with all the little dots you saw in the previous pictures.

In the last two days though, the PH has jumped from normal 8.3 to 8.65.

What is going on?????

Nitrates 2
Phosphate 0.0
Alkalinity 9.4 (normally 10.2 but I stopped dosing Polyplab ONE because it has acetate)

Corals are mad as hell. Tort STN, Zoas closed, SPS and LPS closed. Anemone is sick too.

This is ridiculous.

Here is a picture under white lights

pH that high is dangerous, but more likely an erroneous test result. If you are measuring with a probe it needs to be recalibrated. Are you adding buffer or kalkwasser or alkalinity? Those are easy to overdose

This does not look like dinos. Chrysophytes or euglena perhaps. How old is this system? If less than a year, I'd say this is a phase of uglies that will pass.

 

[joshwaggs]

Looks like Chrysophytes. CaribSea Life Rock?

Yup! Why? Is that a problem with that rock?