Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[taricha]

Anyone? Just in case I have uploaded it to the web as I can never play with the built in player

Scott is right. That movement is not one of our problem dinos. It's another random flagellate, moves similar to a cryptomonas or rhodomonas. Should not be a problem.

I have a splattering of pink ones idk 3-5% maybe the rest are the other kind.

weird. also they look like maybe they got smashed under slide cover.

 

[attiland]

Very sorry. I have looked at this several times but cannot make out the species. I've not seen any move at that kind of pace before; they are a blur. Perhaps you can look at the guide yourself to narrow things down. @taricha composed this; check out the linked videos and pics.

Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks for looking.
I have looked it and think it might be Prorocentrum because of high mucus but still unsure. In some samples a am certain I have seen Ostreopsis too but since th uv is on I can not find almost any.
Strangely lately I have stopped to see any movement but the mucus is still growing back.
I am focusing on extracting as muc as I can and keeping nitrates high.
yesterday I have done large amount of sand vacuuming to a 5 micron filter sock and added more microbacter 7 to the water. This morning nitrate was barely detected my my tester. Added more but my po4 is really high. alright above just indicates microbacter is in works but hope it won’t mean an another relapse.

I just hope I am on the right track. My wife said it is more commitment than a dog

 

[attiland]

Thanks for looking.
I have looked it and think it might be Prorocentrum because of high mucus but still unsure. In some samples a am certain I have seen Ostreopsis too but since th uv is on I can not find almost any.
Strangely lately I have stopped to see any movement but the mucus is still growing back.
I am focusing on extracting as muc as I can and keeping nitrates high.
yesterday I have done large amount of sand vacuuming to a 5 micron filter sock and added more microbacter 7 to the water. This morning nitrate was barely detected my my tester. Added more but my po4 is really high. alright above just indicates microbacter is in works but hope it won’t mean an another relapse.

I just hope I am on the right track. My wife said it is more commitment than a dog

Nitrate an phosphate are now way too high but still afraid to do water change.
What would you recommend?

 

[taricha]

Nitrate an phosphate are now way too high but still afraid to do water change.
What would you recommend?

what's way too high?
I'm probably going to say let it ride.

 

[attiland]

what's way too high?
I'm probably going to say let it ride.

2ppm phosphate 20 nitrate this morning

it is actually bit lower than yesterday

 

[Gildo]

Hello guys
during my fight against the ostreopsis, the aquarium filled me with red cyano, which suffocate everything and someone green ... how can I reduce them without the ostreopsis (which are still present) taking over? now I manage with po4 at 0.1 and no3 greater than 5 skimmer at minimum
thank you

 

[xDMike]

I've been dealing with what I assumed was diatoms in in my tank for the past month or 2, but it looks like it's actually dinos. It seems to be mostly on my sandbed. It will go away at night, and for about 12-24 hrs after siphoning the sand during a water change. I've been running a uv sterilizer for about 3 months, my phosphate is always around .05-.1, and nitrates around 3-6.

It looks like Prorocentrum dinos. Can anyone confirm?

Thank you!

 

[ScottB]

Hello guys
during my fight against the ostreopsis, the aquarium filled me with red cyano, which suffocate everything and someone green ... how can I reduce them without the ostreopsis (which are still present) taking over? now I manage with po4 at 0.1 and no3 greater than 5 skimmer at minimum
thank you

Cyano almost always follows dinos. Just stay the course with nutrients raised. Vacuum out the cyano mats regularly. At some point you should start getting some algae back but it can take a while.

 

[Gildo]

Ok! Po4/no3 at 0.1 / 10 is the most balanced value recommended? @ScottB @taricha

 

[blackstallion]

I ran the Hydrogen Peroxide test on the strands you see on the back wall and no noticeable bubbles formed in the flask that weren't already there (as you see there are A LOT of bubbles forming in the tank). According to the thread, this is indicative of Dino's correct? I couldn't get any amount of slime off of that rock you see in the foreground to test, but I assume it's the same as what you see on the back wall.

Nitrates are 0 and Phosphates are very low as well, last tested at 0.02. Right now the tank is fallow for another couple weeks due to an outbreak I had last month. Once fish are back in, I expect Nitrates and Phosphates will go back up.

But in the mean time, what is the best course of action? Three day black out period? Dino X? Raise temperate to 82? Overskimming until I get rid of them?

Once I get them under control, dose Nitrates until fish naturally bring it back up? Underskim?

 

[attiland]

Just came across this. Could be useful to identify some of your dinos

 

[ScottB]

Ok! Po4/no3 at 0.1 / 10 is the most balanced value recommended? @ScottB @taricha

Yes. Nitrates you can run a little higher without trouble. My grow out systems run .1 / 20ish. Corals love it. But I do have to keep herbivores in there (tangs, rabbit fish, algae blenny) to keep the algae well managed. This is with socks, skimmer and refugium. Heavy nutrient in / heavy nutrient out is MY method. I was low nutrient with some success early, but since dinos I find this method much more stable.

I forget your system details, but another tool to help with cyano is flow. Without flow, detritus settles and cyano traps it. With more flow, that detritus keeps moving, breaking up, and ends up in the water column where it gets filtered, skimmed or eaten.

Hang in there. Cyano can hang around as long as dinos in my experience.

 

[ScottB]

Just came across this. Could be useful to identify some of your dinos

Very cool. I like the sound track as well. Thankfully, most of these species we won't see in our tanks due to temperature differences. But those darn amphidinium can survive anything. I was not shocked to see them listed.

 

[attiland]

2ppm phosphate 20 nitrate this morning

it is actually bit lower than yesterday

@taricha @ScottB
Hi here is some more images and a video of my collection of Dinos and more I can’t seems to able to get rid off
Any advice welcomed
Most of them now stays all night

 

[Sebae]

Hey all,

Just thought I would chime in again after another (finally) seemingly successful battle with dinos. I never ID'd the species but this method worked and I've been dino free for a few weeks now.

Typical 3 day blackout (didn't both covering the sides)
H2O2 at a dose of 1 mL per 2 gallons. Typically done with a half in the morning/half in the evening dose.
Algaefix (API) at the intructed 1 mL per 10 gallons every 3 days. I was on dose 3 of this when I started the blackout. FYI I'm pretty sure this is the same stuff in Dino-X but much cheaper. The ingredient in Dino-X is "Quaternary Ammonium compound" the active ingredient in API Algaefix is also a quaternary ammonium compound. Whether or not they are exactly the same compound I am not sure.

I hope this helps someone!

 

[ScottB]

@taricha @ScottB
Hi here is some more images and a video of my collection of Dinos and more I can’t seems to able to get rid off
Any advice welcomed
Most of them now stays all night

The video is very helpful. Subject to correction by @taricha I believe it shows both Large Cell Amphidinium and small cell amphidinium.

The good news: large cell are not toxic and small cell are only moderately so. Nothing should die as a direct result of their presence.
The bad news: well, large cell can take a LONG time to resolve. Treatments for them work for some and not for others. People have tried a lot of stuff: raising temp, peroxide, bacteria dosing, silica dosing, UV, vacuuming, removing the sand, prayer, Gregorian chant, and all of the above. I'll give you a link to the specific treatment thread.

Small cell amphids swim at night. Therefore running a UV (1 watt per three gallons; plumbed directly to/from the display; feed pump very slow) and doing a 2 or 3 day blackout can get them under control. Large cell amphids stay buried in the sand at night, so the UV can't kill them.

I see you are newish to the forum. Is the tank new also? Less than 12 months maybe? If so, here is my recommendation:
Focus on keeping a stable system temperature, salinity, and nutrient and let the tank grow out of it. Your biome has not hit puberty yet. Nobody ever died from a little bout of acne.

Edit: forgot the link:

Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

This thread is a spin-off from the @mcarroll very successful Dino thread The purpose is to discuss methods for removal and fighting against a particular strain of dinoflagellate - Large Cell Amphidinium. It seems to make up about a third of the cases of dinos. The reason this strain gets its...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[attiland]

The video is very helpful. Subject to correction by @taricha I believe it shows both Large Cell Amphidinium and small cell amphidinium.

The good news: large cell are not toxic and small cell are only moderately so. Nothing should die as a direct result of their presence.
The bad news: well, large cell can take a LONG time to resolve. Treatments for them work for some and not for others. People have tried a lot of stuff: raising temp, peroxide, bacteria dosing, silica dosing, UV, vacuuming, removing the sand, prayer, Gregorian chant, and all of the above. I'll give you a link to the specific treatment thread.

Small cell amphids swim at night. Therefore running a UV (1 watt per three gallons; plumbed directly to/from the display; feed pump very slow) and doing a 2 or 3 day blackout can get them under control. Large cell amphids stay buried in the sand at night, so the UV can't kill them.

I see you are newish to the forum. Is the tank new also? Less than 12 months maybe? If so, here is my recommendation:
Focus on keeping a stable system temperature, salinity, and nutrient and let the tank grow out of it. Your biome has not hit puberty yet. Nobody ever died from a little bout of acne.

Edit: forgot the link:

Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

This thread is a spin-off from the @mcarroll very successful Dino thread The purpose is to discuss methods for removal and fighting against a particular strain of dinoflagellate - Large Cell Amphidinium. It seems to make up about a third of the cases of dinos. The reason this strain gets its...

www.reef2reef.com

I am new to saltwater took me 35 years to switch from freshwater to reef... The tank is a baby too only about 6 month old.

Uv is already in the tank thanks to this tread. There was a small improvement at first but now I can’t tell if it is doing match at all.

Vacuuming done a few times to a 5 micron filter sock but it is back in 2 days. In fact I have a feeling i may do more harm than good to the sands biodiversity.

I have had to dose nitrate and phosphate a few times to keep it up but now that seems to be more stable now in fact probably a bit higher than it should be.

I have started to see Cyanobacteria on some of the rock which I am grateful hoping will give competition to my prehistoric “friends”

And Dino x, prayer, say to my wife all done too

@ScottB Thanks for the link I am already going trough it.

I haven’t decided on my next move yet but Microalgae seems to be the next possible treatment...

 

[ScottB]

I am new to saltwater took me 35 years to switch from freshwater to reef... The tank is a baby too only about 6 month old.

Uv is already in the tank thanks to this tread. There was a small improvement at first but now I can’t tell if it is doing match at all.

Vacuuming done a few times to a 5 micron filter sock but it is back in 2 days. In fact I have a feeling i may do more harm than good to the sands biodiversity.

I have had to dose nitrate and phosphate a few times to keep it up but now that seems to be more stable now in fact probably a bit higher than it should be.

I have started to see Cyanobacteria on some of the rock which I am grateful hoping will give competition to my prehistoric “friends”

And Dino x, prayer, say to my wife all done too

@ScottB Thanks for the link I am already going trough it.

I haven’t decided on my next move yet but Microalgae seems to be the next possible treatment...

Cyano is nearly a given coming out of dinos; try not to let them bother you too much. I would only disturb the sand in order to remove cyano -- not dinos. While it has temporary aesthetic value, I don't believe it helps win the war.

Your mention of diversity is something I forgot to mention. In my drawn out battle with dinos, I believe what finally turned the tide was adding sump rock from another old system. Not an overnight fix, but seemed to set the tank on the right path.

 

[Snoopdog]

My winning the battle was absolutely ultraviolet light, hands down. I was just spinning my wheels doing anything else.

 

[attiland]

Guys have you seen this over your Dino patches? Looks like mouse poop to be honest. It builds up quite a bit and I can’t blame the fish for it.