evil4g63
Community Member
Hi, been battling this brown stuff in the sand for a while now. Recently i’ve been dosing N & P to get levels from undetectable. Can anyone id which i’m dealing with ? Pretty sure it has to be dinos. Thanks
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?
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evil4g63
Community Member
Thank you so much for the fast reply. So treatment would be:
• Removal of sand ( is it ok to replenish water with new water or reuse the same water after going through uv ?)
• Increase nutrients ( been doing this for a couple of days already yesterday noticed an increase of them in the sand and looked like they’re starting to climb the rocks, should i be concerned about this ? )
• Dose silica ( is this really helpful ? I’ve been reading mixed results )
• Time and hope for the best
Is there anything else youwould recommend ? Really want to beat this. But if not, what are your thoughts about removing all the corals, giving them a coral dip in something that could deal with dinos and placing them in a different tank, taking the tank down and just getting new live rock straight from the ocean like from tampa live rock to start again so this time there is enough biodiversity to just outcompete the dinos from the start ?
Thanks for the help
• Removal of sand ( is it ok to replenish water with new water or reuse the same water after going through uv ?)
• Increase nutrients ( been doing this for a couple of days already yesterday noticed an increase of them in the sand and looked like they’re starting to climb the rocks, should i be concerned about this ? )
• Dose silica ( is this really helpful ? I’ve been reading mixed results )
• Time and hope for the best
Is there anything else youwould recommend ? Really want to beat this. But if not, what are your thoughts about removing all the corals, giving them a coral dip in something that could deal with dinos and placing them in a different tank, taking the tank down and just getting new live rock straight from the ocean like from tampa live rock to start again so this time there is enough biodiversity to just outcompete the dinos from the start ?
Thanks for the help
AbjectMaelstroM
Valuable Member
Day 5.
Brown continues to be replaced by green. Turbos putting in overtime on GHA but in a lot of places it's getting pretty wild. GHA also starting to show up on the sandbed.
Nutrients this morning: NO3 10ppm, PO4 0.20ppm. Going to stop dosing for now and just keep checking as it seems to not be taken up as quickly.
Brown continues to be replaced by green. Turbos putting in overtime on GHA but in a lot of places it's getting pretty wild. GHA also starting to show up on the sandbed.
Nutrients this morning: NO3 10ppm, PO4 0.20ppm. Going to stop dosing for now and just keep checking as it seems to not be taken up as quickly.
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Those treatments are a fine approach. Water changes are not that big a deal for most, but some find them really a problem, If so returning water through UV is fine. Si addition can be helpful (for Large Cell Amphidinium) because diatoms compete in the same niche as the dinos more closely than other algaes.
Are these dinos clearly toxic? are they killing snails, crabs, coral? If not, then you just have an unattractive inconvenience, and so tank teardowns are really overkill. (And often ineffective. Dinos re-infest new tanks frequently.)
evil4g63
Community Member
I don’t think they’re toxic or atleast not that toxic because corals are all opening normally but growth from them ( lps and some sps. Zoas and some leathers don’t seem to care, they’re growing like weeds. ) and from coralline has pretty much disappeared. Snails are dying but not too many at a time and not sure if it could be that or the hermits i have and they don’t normally go near that stuff, just me tiger conch and it looks unaffected.
LC Amphids are difficult to battle, but they are really just a visual nuisance, and not otherwise destructive as long as you keep some nutrient available. So a tear down is overkill and not guaranteed effective. I feel like dinos are present in every live marine environment; if that environment favors their needs over other organisms, they thrive. If not, they don't.
But hey, if you hate your aquascape or something then rip it.
Adding some live rock is a fine idea in several respects. The more competing microorganisms the better is at least the current consensus thinking. In my last battle, I added about 50lbs to my frag sump. Not an overnight fix, but I feel it has helped keep me clear.
It can take a lot of PO4 dosing in the beginning as the aragonite is binding it up. But once saturated, it can then leach back out into the water and you don't need to dose much if at all.Day 5.
Brown continues to be replaced by green. Turbos putting in overtime on GHA but in a lot of places it's getting pretty wild. GHA also starting to show up on the sandbed.
Nutrients this morning: NO3 10ppm, PO4 0.20ppm. Going to stop dosing for now and just keep checking as it seems to not be taken up as quickly.
I'm dealing with a mix of large and small cell amphidinium. I've been raising my NO3 to 10+ and trying to hold my phosphates to 0.1-0.15.
I've got three astrea snails who have been putting in a bunch of work on GHA on the rock. Will be getting more soon. It doesn't seem like this dino is toxic to them, which is great. But it is ugly...
Regarding the small cell - I added a 9W UV (13G tank) about four days ago but I'm still seeing plenty of it in the tank. How long should I wait before taking additional measures? On two of the last four nights, I've turkey basted my tank to try and get them in the water column.
I've got three astrea snails who have been putting in a bunch of work on GHA on the rock. Will be getting more soon. It doesn't seem like this dino is toxic to them, which is great. But it is ugly...
Regarding the small cell - I added a 9W UV (13G tank) about four days ago but I'm still seeing plenty of it in the tank. How long should I wait before taking additional measures? On two of the last four nights, I've turkey basted my tank to try and get them in the water column.
Great picture.I'm dealing with a mix of large and small cell amphidinium. I've been raising my NO3 to 10+ and trying to hold my phosphates to 0.1-0.15.
I've got three astrea snails who have been putting in a bunch of work on GHA on the rock. Will be getting more soon. It doesn't seem like this dino is toxic to them, which is great. But it is ugly...
Regarding the small cell - I added a 9W UV (13G tank) about four days ago but I'm still seeing plenty of it in the tank. How long should I wait before taking additional measures? On two of the last four nights, I've turkey basted my tank to try and get them in the water column.
For the small cell, you could try a lights out period to encourage them into the water.
For the large cell, it is common to dose silicates up a bit to encourage competing diatoms.
The jury is out on whether or not to disturb the sand bed for LC treatment. Some say do it all the time; others are adamant that disturbing the sand keeps the advantage toward amphids. @taricha would you say consensus on that debate has developed?
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The idea of turkey basting dinos being "spread all over the tank" is really not an issue. Dinos go wherever they want already. They congregate where they like the conditions.
Vacuuming the sand patches of highest Amphidinium dino concentration is one of the best things that can be done from a conservative treatment standpoint.
It won't cure it in one or 2 or 5 rounds of vacuuming, but many who said the dinos "just went away on their own" made manual removal of visible patches of high concentration a regular part of their routine. You won't lose good sandbed populations by vacuuming where the dinos are heaviest.
I may do a blackout for a day or two to encourage them into the water.
Should that not work, i've read that the small cells seem to die after 9 days of darkness. I have a few softies (GSP, mushrooms, blue sympodium, kenya tree), but also two monti frags which aren't doing great. I'm guessing a 9 day blackout would kill the frags, but i wonder if the softies would be okay.
Should i end up doing a 9 day blackout, there will probably be a huge spike in phosphates from die off. Would it be wise to do 50% water changes every 3 days or so during the blackout?
9 days is a real long time; I can't speak with any conviction about survival odds for that long of a blackout for the corals or the SC Amphids. Pretty sure the LC amphids will survive tho.
Have you visited the amphidinium treatment thread here, initiated by taricha? A lot of trial and error documented there with 1300 posts over 65 pages.
Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods
This thread is a spin-off from the @mcarroll very successful Dino thread The purpose is to discuss methods for removal and fighting against a particular strain of dinoflagellate - Large Cell Amphidinium. It seems to make up about a third of the cases of dinos. The reason this strain gets its...
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Jrainey312
Active Member
Anyone help me id this? Thanks in advance
Feelin woozy after watching the video a few times. Where is my dramamine? Sorry but I don't have a high confirmation ID on those. They are certainly dinos. Pressed to GUESS, I would guess coolia given the roundness.Anyone help me id this? Thanks in advance
I will link the Guide so you can take a shot with your own eyes/images.
Dinoflagellate Identification Guide
I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.
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Curious what YOU think they are. If @taricha agrees then so do I.
Jrainey312
Active Member
Sorry about the video. It was hard for me to get it still. Ut after looking at more pictures i think its coolia as well. Moves quick and its more round.Feelin woozy after watching the video a few times. Where is my dramamine? Sorry but I don't have a high confirmation ID on those. They are certainly dinos. Pressed to GUESS, I would guess coolia given the roundness.
I will link the Guide so you can take a shot with your own eyes/images.
Dinoflagellate Identification Guide
I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.
Curious what YOU think they are. If @taricha agrees then so do I.
Will uv work for this? What else rasing oor and no3? Currently at 5 ppm no3 and .p4 po4. But also have either turf algae or hair algae
Hmmm. Is this tank less than a year old by chance? That combo of measurable nutrient, algae and dinos makes me ask.
Yes on UV. 1 watt per 3 gallons. Super slow flow to maximize contact time. On nutrient, I generally recommend a bit higher but as you have algae going strong tells us that it is just getting bound into the algae.
If the biome is young -- and especially with a dead rock start -- I am going to suggest you just sit tight. Manage temps and salinity. Let the biome cook and do its ugly/beautiful thing.
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