Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[reeferfoxx]

Everyone is getting dinos I think reefing will have to change its practices to prevent them from taking over.

 

[Paullawr]

Everyone is getting dinos I think reefing will have to change its practices to prevent them from taking over.

Yes been saying this for a while now.

I've been to three Lfs (well not exactly local) all within 80mile radius and all have various flavours of dinoflagellates in their tanks. Clear as day.

What do you do. Stop buying fish and frags.

Our success at distributing frags and livestock has becoming our largest failure.
With technologies designed to keep water as clear as the day it went in to the aquarium and bacterial additives to assist and do everything else we have opened that seventh seal and unlocked a demon.

Frag swaps and inexperienced hobbyists along with experiences who don't care what they trade (knowing full well what they have) has caused this.

Problem is holding tanks, facilities, breeding tanks, transport tanks etc etc are likely inundated with dinos. So now every coral or invert that goes in comes out with a bonus.

What's needed is an effective dip. So far that's chlorine (98% successful). Its one not favoured by many though and for good reason. It's not exactly safe on fish either.

The paper thats just been linked re amphidinium shows just how tolerant they are of water conditions. Those same conditions would wreak havoc in most other livestock.

Explains why I could only kill them knocking the PH to 10 before now. Again not exactly a solution.

Talking direct to fauna marin on this subject and dino x their comments were that its so hard to come up with a way of killing them without harming anything else.
And dino x only works with ones that like to eat....

I think I will have to develop a UV sterilisation tank. Wall to wall UV.

 

[zachxlutz]

Yes been saying this for a while now.

I've been to three Lfs (well not exactly local) all within 80mile radius and all have various flavours of dinoflagellates in their tanks. Clear as day.

What do you do. Stop buying fish and frags.

Our success at distributing frags and livestock has becoming our largest failure.
With technologies designed to keep water as clear as the day it went in to the aquarium and bacterial additives to assist and do everything else we have opened that seventh seal and unlocked a demon.

Frag swaps and inexperienced hobbyists along with experiences who don't care what they trade (knowing full well what they have) has caused this.

Problem is holding tanks, facilities, breeding tanks, transport tanks etc etc are likely inundated with dinos. So now every coral or invert that goes in comes out with a bonus.

What's needed is an effective dip. So far that's chlorine (98% successful). Its one not favoured by many though and for good reason. It's not exactly safe on fish either.

The paper thats just been linked re amphidinium shows just how tolerant they are of water conditions. Those same conditions would wreak havoc in most other livestock.

Explains why I could only kill them knocking the PH to 10 before now. Again not exactly a solution.

Talking direct to fauna marin on this subject and dino x their comments were that its so hard to come up with a way of killing them without harming anything else.
And dino x only works with ones that like to eat....

I think I will have to develop a UV sterilisation tank. Wall to wall UV.

I think I might disagree. I'm under the assumption that dinos have been present in the aquarium hobby (and the ocean) since day 1. We've only "recently" begun to have multiple options to drive our nutrient levels to zero and dump algaecides (vibrant, etc) into our tanks which has opened the door for the dinos to become the dominant strain of nuisance bacteria. I've seen folks take frags/rock/etc from tanks with dino problems and transfer them into tanks that DON'T have a dino problem and it seems the dinos never take hold.

My disagreement with what you're saying is that the dinos being introduced unknowingly is the problem whereas I believe the dino problem stems from the desire for reefers to have complete control over nutrients (ULNS) and the use of algaecides and bacterial additives that allow the dinos to overpopulate to a point where they become a nuisance.

 

[Paullawr]

I think I might disagree. I'm under the assumption that dinos have been present in the aquarium hobby (and the ocean) since day 1. We've only "recently" begun to have multiple options to drive our nutrient levels to zero and dump algaecides (vibrant, etc) into our tanks which has opened the door for the dinos to become the dominant strain of nuisance bacteria. I've seen folks take frags/rock/etc from tanks with dino problems and transfer them into tanks that DON'T have a dino problem and it seems the dinos never take hold.

My disagreement with what you're saying is that the dinos being introduced unknowingly is the problem whereas I believe the dino problem stems from the desire for reefers to have complete control over nutrients (ULNS) and the use of algaecides and bacterial additives that allow the dinos to overpopulate to a point where they become a nuisance.

Not sure I follow your disagreement...

As I stated above we have the tools and technology now to make tanks very clean leaving the door wide open.

Have they been as prevalent in the industry before turn of the decade. Im not so sure they were. This hobby boomed about 8 year back with equipment able to facilitate even inexperienced fish keepers...that and finding nemo.

 

[Paullawr]

Oh and I definitely had them before using biopellets and nitrates firmly at 20!

 

[Sebae]

Well No3 is a bit high and po4 is good but still a touch low. As the Dino die the shell of the Dino takes a lot of po4 to break down. The bacteria that is breaking it down uses a lot of po4. That maybe the reason po4 is dropping.
How is the Dino population doing?

I had my UV offline for 4 days due to a leak into the bulb resulting in stray voltage. I got that fixed and put the UV back on on Tuesday. Unfortunately, the dinos appear to have come back and now UV is making no noticable impact. Losing my mind.

 

[sfin52]

I think they are in all tanks but we create an environment that is perfect for them to become a plague.

 

[sfin52]

@Sebae what strand do you have. Some strands don’t go into the water colum. Some go into the sand bed.

 

[sfin52]

@taricha can you lend your expertise.

 

[Paullawr]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0044848602003733

Well according to this article. The perfect environment we are creating is saltwater and fish waste.

The range between temperate, warm acidic and alkaline are quite large.

 

[Sebae]

@Sebae what strand do you have. Some strands don’t go into the water colum. Some go into the sand bed.

Ostreopsis. Its a bare bottom tank. I removed the sand bed a while back.

 

[zachxlutz]

Ostreopsis. Its a bare bottom tank. I removed the sand bed a while back.

Ostreopsis generally seems to be highly susceptible to UV treatment. Are you pulling water directly from the display to feed your UV?

 

[zachxlutz]

Not sure I follow your disagreement...

As I stated above we have the tools and technology now to make tanks very clean leaving the door wide open.

Have they been as prevalent in the industry before turn of the decade. Im not so sure they were. This hobby boomed about 8 year back with equipment able to facilitate even inexperienced fish keepers...that and finding nemo.

I wasn't trying to argue with you, just discussing. You may be right that they are being passed around more than they used to be passed around due to the higher numbers of systems experiencing dino outbreaks.

 

[wyattray]

Ostreopsis generally seems to be highly susceptible to UV treatment. Are you pulling water directly from the display to feed your UV?

What is the difference? I have a UV filter on my tank and I am fighting Dino's, I just pull from the Sump and dump back into the return chamber. Is this not good enough?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Yes been saying this for a while now.

I've been to three Lfs (well not exactly local) all within 80mile radius and all have various flavours of dinoflagellates in their tanks. Clear as day.

What do you do. Stop buying fish and frags.

Our success at distributing frags and livestock has becoming our largest failure.
With technologies designed to keep water as clear as the day it went in to the aquarium and bacterial additives to assist and do everything else we have opened that seventh seal and unlocked a demon.

Frag swaps and inexperienced hobbyists along with experiences who don't care what they trade (knowing full well what they have) has caused this.

Problem is holding tanks, facilities, breeding tanks, transport tanks etc etc are likely inundated with dinos. So now every coral or invert that goes in comes out with a bonus.

What's needed is an effective dip. So far that's chlorine (98% successful). Its one not favoured by many though and for good reason. It's not exactly safe on fish either.

The paper thats just been linked re amphidinium shows just how tolerant they are of water conditions. Those same conditions would wreak havoc in most other livestock.

Explains why I could only kill them knocking the PH to 10 before now. Again not exactly a solution.

Talking direct to fauna marin on this subject and dino x their comments were that its so hard to come up with a way of killing them without harming anything else.
And dino x only works with ones that like to eat....

I think I will have to develop a UV sterilisation tank. Wall to wall UV.

I think I might disagree. I'm under the assumption that dinos have been present in the aquarium hobby (and the ocean) since day 1. We've only "recently" begun to have multiple options to drive our nutrient levels to zero and dump algaecides (vibrant, etc) into our tanks which has opened the door for the dinos to become the dominant strain of nuisance bacteria. I've seen folks take frags/rock/etc from tanks with dino problems and transfer them into tanks that DON'T have a dino problem and it seems the dinos never take hold.

My disagreement with what you're saying is that the dinos being introduced unknowingly is the problem whereas I believe the dino problem stems from the desire for reefers to have complete control over nutrients (ULNS) and the use of algaecides and bacterial additives that allow the dinos to overpopulate to a point where they become a nuisance.

I agree with both assertions. A sterile dry rock environment won't typically have dinos present. Live rock shipped or coming from an LFS more than likely will. If the rock has been properly matured, has already built defenses against some strains for their regions. Then we add corals from facilities that have dinos flourishing with or without our knowledge are passing them around. One thing I've notice from dry rock and live rock is that live rock tends to have a more balanced nutrient 'canvas'. My live rock tank never had nutrient issues unless I caused them with over feeding. Dry rock(mined rock) generally comes packed with phosphates. From the start reefers have nutrient issues. Which in most cases aren't always cycled out properly.

So once nutrients become issues in either dry or live rock, reefers get advice to reduce them and inadvertently bottom them out. This creates a perfect storm for whatever has been introduced. Now with ULNS or bacteria based concepts like zeovit or aquaforest methods, we see methods not being used correctly and lose a thriving tank to a dino thriving tank.

I had my UV offline for 4 days due to a leak into the bulb resulting in stray voltage. I got that fixed and put the UV back on on Tuesday. Unfortunately, the dinos appear to have come back and now UV is making no noticable impact. Losing my mind.

Ostreopsis. Its a bare bottom tank. I removed the sand bed a while back.

If you aren't watching or dosing nutrients along with keeping dinos in the water column, then you aren't doing enough. Removing the sandbed only reduces the refugium for microbial communities and inverts. Sometimes it can have positive impacts or in this case, no impact.

 

[reeferfoxx]

What is the difference? I have a UV filter on my tank and I am fighting Dino's, I just pull from the Sump and dump back into the return chamber. Is this not good enough?

Low light verses high light. Dinos are photsynthetic and create their dominance in the DT. A filter sock can filter some but a dino lives in cracks and crevasses.

 

[bh750]

Ive been doing alot of reading her and elsewhere on R2R. I've been battling dinos (and cyano) on and off for YEARS. I'm researching and planning to invest in a nice UV for my 300g system. thanks once again!!!

 

[sfin52]

Mine became a plague when I used gfo to strip away all po4. I ran gfo extremely heavy because I was told no po4. Than I was running media to remove nitrate because that was also very bad.

I just went over my livestock of coral I lost because of my attemp to remove po4 and No3. Two trumpet coral, 2 Duncan coral (15 heads apiece). Gsp didn’t grow. I’m getting my tank back on track. Expensive lesson to learn.

 

[bh750]

Low light verses high light. Dinos are photsynthetic and create their dominance in the DT. A filter sock can filter some but a dino lives in cracks and crevasses.

Didnt think about this. Been planning to pull from sump when the lights are off. But maybe pulling from the DT when the lights are off is a better solution? Or when lights off are they free floating everywhere so it doesnt matter.

 

[zachxlutz]

What is the difference? I have a UV filter on my tank and I am fighting Dino's, I just pull from the Sump and dump back into the return chamber. Is this not good enough?

It may not be good enough, ostreopsis are known to enter the water column at night but may not be traveling through the sump in a large enough quantity for the UV to make a dent. I had great success in knocking back the ostreopsis dinos with my UV pump located in the display. Once I had the ostreopsis under control, I moved the UV to the sump. This, along with nutrient balancing, cured my tank of ostreopsis dinoflagellates.