Dino X working in reverse

[techhnyne]

I did a 3 day lights out with light h202 dosing and my dinos were gone by end of 72 hours

 

[LORD FORBES]

Those are dinoflagellates for sure, maybe not only of one kind. That weird snotty dough might be due to the use of Dino X as dinoflagellates secrete mucilage in different quantities depending on how "happy" they are; they sometimes develop cysts before they die.

@craigcolbert: NOPOX to a dino bloom is like petrol to a a bonfire.
@scardall: You don't want to brush all that stuff and spread the problem.

Please, be careful with those pieces of advice that make things worse.


I have dealt with dinoflagellates many times and for so long, these are my conclusions:

- The first thing you have to do is identify the dinoflagellate species. Products like DinoX, Dinoxal...do not always work and won't work for many of the species of dino that are quite common, such as ostreopsis and gambierdiscus. It does work again amphidinium (but for that species also works a 5-days balckout. These products will decimate many small critters and which is worse, it will take long to clean those chemicals from the aquarium. So, id the dinoflagellates species and then decide if you use it or not. Fauna Marin and all other manufacturers SHOULD indicate that DinoX won't work with many of the dinoflagellates species, their advertising is not clear and is not true.
- Do not blow or wipe the snotty stuff, pumps running at a minimum. The wort thing you can do is spread the stuff away.
- Vacuum all the snot through a filter sock, every day. You'd better pick a 50 micron (or less) filter because dinoflagellates range from 10 to 100 microns (ostreopsis is a big one and amphidinium is smaller)
- Stop the skimmer. This is very important, two or three days after stopping it you will notice an important decrease in dinoflagellates.
- Increase feedings, use frozen food. This will encourage emergence of pods which do guzzle dinoflagellates and will prevent them to come back.
- Do not make any water changes. Dinoflagellates love new clean water and that is something that triggers their breeding.


I have fought ostreopsis and amphidinium for so long... these is what has worked for me:

- Parvilucifera sinensis inoculation. This is a natural parasite of many kind of dinos. It works great, the problem is with those species that develop cysts: they come back after a few weeks or months.

- Oxyrrhis marina. This is a heterotrophic tiny dinoflagellate that will devour any other dinoflagellate, and some other small critters (ie ciliates and nematodes). After it's use you will notice a yellowish biofilm on the walls and rocks that is quickly eaten by snails and some fish. Same problem: dinoflagellates make cysts and may come back after some weeks (but if you feed the tank with phytoplankton or frozen foods you can keep oxyrrhis marina, and dinoflagellates in check...for ever.). Check this video: http://blog.coralwonders.com/en/en-una-gota-de-agua-2a-parte/

- The "dirty method". This is what has best worked for my and for many others. Stop skimmer, vacuum clean and feed frozen foods (don't rinse) and slowly take your NO3 and PO4 up (just NO3 to 0,2 and PO4 to 0,03 ppm). In about one/two weeks dinos are gone and you will have tons of pods that will eat even cysts.

I would share parvilucifera and oxyrrhis to any one that wants to try, but I live in Europe and I presume you are in the States.

 

[LORD FORBES]

Those are dinoflagellates for sure, maybe not only of one kind. That weird snotty dough might be due to the use of Dino X as dinoflagellates secrete mucilage in different quantities depending on how "happy" they are; they sometimes develop cysts before they die.

@craigcolbert: NOPOX to a dino bloom is like petrol to a a bonfire.
@scardall: You don't want to brush all that stuff and spread the problem.

Please, be careful with those pieces of advice that make things worse.


I have dealt with dinoflagellates many times and for so long, these are my conclusions:

- The first thing you have to do is identify the dinoflagellate species. Products like DinoX, Dinoxal...do not always work and won't work for many of the species of dino that are quite common, such as ostreopsis and gambierdiscus. It does work again amphidinium (but for that species also works a 5-days balckout. These products will decimate many small critters and which is worse, it will take long to clean those chemicals from the aquarium. So, id the dinoflagellates species and then decide if you use it or not. Fauna Marin and all other manufacturers SHOULD indicate that DinoX won't work with many of the dinoflagellates species, their advertising is not clear and is not true.
- Do not blow or wipe the snotty stuff, pumps running at a minimum. The wort thing you can do is spread the stuff away.
- Vacuum all the snot through a filter sock, every day. You'd better pick a 50 micron (or less) filter because dinoflagellates range from 10 to 100 microns (ostreopsis is a big one and amphidinium is smaller)
- Stop the skimmer. This is very important, two or three days after stopping it you will notice an important decrease in dinoflagellates.
- Increase feedings, use frozen food. This will encourage emergence of pods which do guzzle dinoflagellates and will prevent them to come back.
- Do not make any water changes. Dinoflagellates love new clean water and that is something that triggers their breeding.


I have fought ostreopsis and amphidinium for so long... these is what has worked for me:

- Parvilucifera sinensis inoculation. This is a natural parasite of many kind of dinos. It works great, the problem is with those species that develop cysts: they come back after a few weeks or months.

- Oxyrrhis marina. This is a heterotrophic tiny dinoflagellate that will devour any other dinoflagellate, and some other small critters (ie ciliates and nematodes). After it's use you will notice a yellowish biofilm on the walls and rocks that is quickly eaten by snails and some fish. Same problem: dinoflagellates make cysts and may come back after some weeks (but if you feed the tank with phytoplankton or frozen foods you can keep oxyrrhis marina, and dinoflagellates in check...for ever.). Check this video: http://blog.coralwonders.com/en/en-una-gota-de-agua-2a-parte/

- The "dirty method". This is what has best worked for my and for many others. Stop skimmer, vacuum clean and feed frozen foods (don't rinse) and slowly take your NO3 and PO4 up (just NO3 to 0,2 and PO4 to 0,03 ppm). In about one/two weeks dinos are gone and you will have tons of pods that will eat even cysts.

I would share parvilucifera and oxyrrhis to any one that wants to try, but I live in Europe and I presume you are in the States.

I'm running carbon and Phosguard should I remove them from my tank before dosing NO3 and PO4?

 

[Fauna Marin]

Hi Montireef,

I am really sorry but what you say about DinoX is definitely not true. Our product does in fact work against the types of Dino you said it does not. We have had this product on the market for more than 20 years in Europe and have saved tens of thousands of reef tanks from a complete loss. Depending on the severity of the problem, we usually attempt other common methods of Dino treatment before using DinoX, but depending on the nature of the problem, it makes sense to work with DinoX.

Some problems which have been mentioned earlier are not only Dino-related issues but also gold algae and bacteria-related issues which can be the cause of negative reaction. In situations like this, DinoX cannot work because the product is not a toxic substance.

Regards,
Claude

 

[NyReefer81]

Hi Montireef,

I am really sorry but what you say about DinoX is definitely not true. Our product does in fact work against the types of Dino you said it does not. We have had this product on the market for more than 20 years in Europe and have saved tens of thousands of reef tanks from a complete loss. Depending on the severity of the problem, we usually attempt other common methods of Dino treatment before using DinoX, but depending on the nature of the problem, it makes sense to work with DinoX.

Some problems which have been mentioned earlier are not only Dino-related issues but also gold algae and bacteria-related issues which can be the cause of negative reaction. In situations like this, DinoX cannot work because the product is not a toxic substance.

Regards,
Claude

It took me over 3 mos to fully get over dino!! I don't know the exact strain of what i had but it was stringy brown and had a air bubble off the end of it, it attached mainly to sand and corals on my end ...

Things i tried that did not work -
1. Vacuming sand, cleaning off rocks etc
2. Vacuming just the dino
3. DINO X (may work for some, or just coincidental as it goes away naturally user maybe dosing this thinking its working) Also why isn't the ingredients listed on the back of Dino X? Easy home remedy stuff? Maybe Hydrogen Peroxide?
4. NO3 PO4
5. Hydrogen Peroxide treatments (this techniques was not necessarily bad but didn't notice it helping either since it was killing good bacteria too)
6. Changing out media (chemi pure, poly pads etc)

Things that somewhat worked ...
1. Complete tank blackouts (3 days, 5 days, a full 7 days etc i tried) tank would look pristine clear but than slowly but surely it came back!!
2. Removing anything dead (had a massive die off but only fish interestingly enough)
3. Tank breakdown, clean out, new sand, new rocks etc (last resort)

What worked -
1. Patience!!!
2. Keeping the tank full of life!! (encouraging pods to thrive etc but not cleaning so frequently, continue to feed etc..)
3. Cheeto in main display tank to thrive to help growth of beneficial bacteria ...
4. Continuing to allow corraline algae to thrive with use of Part A and B / Mag.
5. Removal of any corals covered in Dino which towards the end is where i would find it lingering ...

So overall after months of research, asking many LFS (who had no clue), and more research i have concluded two things!

1. Most tanks who have Dino have a beneficial bacteria problem - one cant compete with the other is the theory!
2. Tank may not be fully cycled yet or mature enough going back to problem #1 above - some rocks like Tonga take longer to cure, or the sand etc...

What never to do!
1. Water changes!!! Only fuels Dino

​

 

[AquaHobby31]

How do you vacuum without doing water change?

 

[Bagirka]

Hello everyone, I hope someone can help me to identify the species and the best method to kill these monsters...there are no obvious snots but I have problems with sand which I thought was due to either diatoms or cyano
I invested in microscope and unfortunately I haven't got windows to connect it to PC...so the best I could is phone photos
I think amphidinium but I'm not an expert(
Sorry for fuzzy pictures but that's the best I could do atm

Thank you!

 

[NyReefer81]

Dino X did nothing for me, granted I have no idea what strain I had but over the course of 6 mos I have Dino 3x did everything imaginable to clean and clear it etc , ultimately is the reason why I broke down my tank recently and will most likely stay away from the hobby - 15yrs and being a compete newbie I created an amazing tank had no chiller or expensive led lights or reactors and never ever saw an ounce of the stuff - 3 yrs the tank latest before I moved on ...sucks but the hobby and environment In which the material is coming from is all changing

 

[NyReefer81]

Dino X did nothing for me, granted I have no idea what strain I had but over the course of 6 mos I have Dino 3x did everything imaginable to clean and clear it etc , ultimately is the reason why I broke down my tank recently and will most likely stay away from the hobby - 15yrs and being a compete newbie I created an amazing tank had no chiller or expensive led lights or reactors and never ever saw an ounce of the stuff - 3 yrs the tank latest before I moved on ...sucks but the hobby and environment In which the material is coming from is all changing

 

[MSB123]

Try a massive UV sterilizer- I run a 80 watt on my 180 gallon tank and I’ve never had a problem since

 

[Bagirka]

I have a massive UV so that's why probably it hasn't gone the full blow outbreak but hanging in the middle in the way.....I would like to identify them so I know what to do and what NOT to do)

 

[reefwiser]

How do you vacuum without doing water change?

Its really pretty easy to do.

 

[Teles Ramos viana]

Boa noite.
Também estou com essa praga de Dino no meu telefone.
Comprei o Dino X e já estou na 11° dose e não tive nenhum resultado positivo.
Parei de aplicar,pois os corais foram afetados.
Estou tentando outras maneiras,enfim dinheiro gasto atoa com esse produto.
Nem algumas algas sumiram.
Não recomendo o produto.
Caro e sem eficácia.

 

[Teles Ramos viana]

Boa noite.
Também estou com essa praga no meu telefone.
Comprei o Dino X e já estou na 11 ° dose e não obtive sultado algum.
Então piorou o problema, parei de dosar o produto para nota que os corais estao sentindo.
Tentando outras maneiras de acabar com os donos, pois com o produto sem resultado.
Nao recomendo o produto.
Enfim, dinheiro gasto atoa.

 

[becon776]

got the dinos. :-( dang any ideas on species or how ti proceed?

 

[DeeBee]

got the dinos. :-( dang any ideas on species or how ti proceed?

As the original poster for this thread, I can tell you that after suffering over a year of severe Dinos and trying Metroplex, peroxide, blackouts, dirty water, cleaner water, etc. the only thing that worked was using another product at around double dose steady for over a month. The tradeoff is that it was brutal on many of my corals. A lot of folks will claim that blackouts work (perhaps for some species) but Dinos go into a cyst stage and can lay dormant for months before reappearing when conditions are favorable again.

 

[Reefr]

Those are dinoflagellates for sure, maybe not only of one kind. That weird snotty dough might be due to the use of Dino X as dinoflagellates secrete mucilage in different quantities depending on how "happy" they are; they sometimes develop cysts before they die.

@craigcolbert: NOPOX to a dino bloom is like petrol to a a bonfire.
@scardall: You don't want to brush all that stuff and spread the problem.

Please, be careful with those pieces of advice that make things worse.


I have dealt with dinoflagellates many times and for so long, these are my conclusions:

- The first thing you have to do is identify the dinoflagellate species. Products like DinoX, Dinoxal...do not always work and won't work for many of the species of dino that are quite common, such as ostreopsis and gambierdiscus. It does work again amphidinium (but for that species also works a 5-days balckout. These products will decimate many small critters and which is worse, it will take long to clean those chemicals from the aquarium. So, id the dinoflagellates species and then decide if you use it or not. Fauna Marin and all other manufacturers SHOULD indicate that DinoX won't work with many of the dinoflagellates species, their advertising is not clear and is not true.
- Do not blow or wipe the snotty stuff, pumps running at a minimum. The wort thing you can do is spread the stuff away.
- Vacuum all the snot through a filter sock, every day. You'd better pick a 50 micron (or less) filter because dinoflagellates range from 10 to 100 microns (ostreopsis is a big one and amphidinium is smaller)
- Stop the skimmer. This is very important, two or three days after stopping it you will notice an important decrease in dinoflagellates.
- Increase feedings, use frozen food. This will encourage emergence of pods which do guzzle dinoflagellates and will prevent them to come back.
- Do not make any water changes. Dinoflagellates love new clean water and that is something that triggers their breeding.


I have fought ostreopsis and amphidinium for so long... these is what has worked for me:

- Parvilucifera sinensis inoculation. This is a natural parasite of many kind of dinos. It works great, the problem is with those species that develop cysts: they come back after a few weeks or months.

- Oxyrrhis marina. This is a heterotrophic tiny dinoflagellate that will devour any other dinoflagellate, and some other small critters (ie ciliates and nematodes). After it's use you will notice a yellowish biofilm on the walls and rocks that is quickly eaten by snails and some fish. Same problem: dinoflagellates make cysts and may come back after some weeks (but if you feed the tank with phytoplankton or frozen foods you can keep oxyrrhis marina, and dinoflagellates in check...for ever.). Check this video: http://blog.coralwonders.com/en/en-una-gota-de-agua-2a-parte/

- The "dirty method". This is what has best worked for my and for many others. Stop skimmer, vacuum clean and feed frozen foods (don't rinse) and slowly take your NO3 and PO4 up (just NO3 to 0,2 and PO4 to 0,03 ppm). In about one/two weeks dinos are gone and you will have tons of pods that will eat even cysts.

I would share parvilucifera and oxyrrhis to any one that wants to try, but I live in Europe and I presume you are in the States.

Dear Montireef,

I have a 120 liter reef tank in which I have been battling several types of dinos after I brought my NO3 & PO4 levels too low. I had ostreopsis and managed to get rid of it with UV (+ Dino X).
Now I have amphidinium (clearly ID'ed using microscope).

I am dosing both NO3 & PO4 but it's not easy to increase levels because the dinos are taking it up to grow I think... Today my levels are still close to zero for both I'll soon add more fish to feed more.

I am a bit reluctant to use Dino X again : I know it can kill amphidinium but my tank is apparently now more stable with (at last) some coraline algae growth again and my corals also seem to do better.

I was reading one of your replies in this post: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dino-x-working-in-reverse.206274/ where you mentioned the use of Parvilucifera sinensis & Oxyrrhis marina.

Which one do you think would work best against amphidinium? And also which one would have the least side effects? I think perhaps Parvilucifera sinensis?
Also, I was wondering: how did you manage to obtain those 2 species? I would like to get Parvilucifera for instance but I have no idea where to look for (I live in Belgium).

Thank you in advance for your reply and best regards,
Rudy

 

[scardall]

Dear Montireef,

I have a 120 liter reef tank in which I have been battling several types of dinos after I brought my NO3 & PO4 levels too low. I had ostreopsis and managed to get rid of it with UV (+ Dino X).
Now I have amphidinium (clearly ID'ed using microscope).

I am dosing both NO3 & PO4 but it's not easy to increase levels because the dinos are taking it up to grow I think... Today my levels are still close to zero for both I'll soon add more fish to feed more.

I am a bit reluctant to use Dino X again : I know it can kill amphidinium but my tank is apparently now more stable with (at last) some coraline algae growth again and my corals also seem to do better.

I was reading one of your replies in this post: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dino-x-working-in-reverse.206274/ where you mentioned the use of Parvilucifera sinensis & Oxyrrhis marina.

Which one do you think would work best against amphidinium? And also which one would have the least side effects? I think perhaps Parvilucifera sinensis?
Also, I was wondering: how did you manage to obtain those 2 species? I would like to get Parvilucifera for instance but I have no idea where to look for (I live in Belgium).

Thank you in advance for your reply and best regards,
Rudy

IMO: One of the causes for Dino is NO3 being Oppm or < 2ppm. I used sodium nitrate dosing to reduce/get rid of Dino's ( need 5-10ppm NO3) 1) NOPOX does have a contributing factor because it also reduces NO3 to Oppm. 2) brushing/blowing dino's will spread Dino's around. IMO this is a mood point as the Dino's will kill/harm your coral, zoa's etc if left on them. In conclusion : at least in part Dino's prefer ULNS and NO3 being Oppm helps Dino's flurish.( to reduce Dino's, increase NO3 to 5-10ppm) AS far as PO4 goes, the lower the better. <.1ppm GOOD LUCK

 

[becon776]

just for the record. 5 day blackout and after two doses of dinox before and after

 

[gccumber]

just for the record. 5 day blackout and after two doses of dinox before and after

For your blackout did you wrap your tank?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Must apply it at night, vacuum every couple of days, absolutely NO full lighting (5.5 hrs is giving them play time) and add 1 ml of peroxide per 10 gals during the days. My tank was out of control 2 weeks ago and is now sparkling. Also use turkey baster daily to loosen stuff up and send it to the sump