Dino X working in reverse

DeeBee · Jul 22, 2015

@Fauna Marin @Montireef So last night I decided to inspect a new piece of dino that formed on the glass in less than a day. This time in the little drop of water I did find something moving. The first video I am fairly certain is some form of Dinoflagellates. It looks different than the majority of the green cells that I see and documented above but there were a few of them in the sample.

DeeBee · Jul 22, 2015

This second video is a interesting creature that I don't think is Dino, but was in that same drop of water:

Montireef · Jul 22, 2015

Hi DeeBee.
Those are ciliates, none of them are dinoflagellates.

Pants · Jul 22, 2015

Montireef said:
Hi DeeBee.
Those are ciliates, none of them are dinoflagellates.

But they often eat dinos.

Can you shoot some video of the non-moving small "dino" that is forming those thick mucous mats?

I've found that one dino makes thicker mucous mats. Its very small compared to the other pest dinos I've identified in people's tanks. I don't know what it is yet. I don't suppose you'd be up for a road trip to Maryland to share some of your snot? I'd like to do some dna sequencing on this strain so we'd finally have a genus to put to it.

DeeBee · Jul 23, 2015

Pants said:
Can you shoot some video of the non-moving small "dino" that is forming those thick mucous mats?

I've found that one dino makes thicker mucous mats. Its very small compared to the other pest dinos I've identified in people's tanks. I don't know what it is yet. I don't suppose you'd be up for a road trip to Maryland to share some of your snot? I'd like to do some dna sequencing on this strain so we'd finally have a genus to put to it.

Thank you Pants. I will try to shoot a video of them within the next day or so - I struggle with getting decent video since I don't have a digital eyepiece for my microscope.

Per my email yesterday I will try to get a sample to you for analysis. I appreciate you offering to do that.

@Montireef In the meantime I am going to try your "dirty" approach and see what happens. Unfortunately I don't have the UV I thought I had so will just see if boosting the other life within the tank will help along with siphoning.

Pants · Jul 23, 2015

some tips on taking photos with a microscope from my website:
How to Take a Picture Through a Microscope Without an Attached Camera

You can take a picture through a microscope using a small point and shoot camera or the camera on a smart phone. Smart phone cameras prior to 2008 were very difficult to use with microscopes. The cameras on more recent phones are easier to use. First position your microscope so that you have space in front to rest your elbows. Hold your camera up to the oculars (the part of the scope you put your eye up to). Brace your arms on the table or a stack of books to help steady your hands. Do not hold the camera lens right up against the ocular of the microscope, but instead hold it back a short distance. If you watch someone else look through a microscope you will notice that their eye is 1-2 cm away from the actual lens. This is where you need to hold you camera. Watch the display on your camera and look for a bright circle. You need to move the camera so that the bright circle is centered and mostly fills your display. You will likely have a black circular border around the edge of your image. Video can often be more useful than still images when identifying algae so try taking both.

Bugger · Jul 23, 2015

I have had dinos many times. I simply blackout the that for two days not completly just enough to darken the tank. And dose the product for a week. I have never got a micoscope to look and see what I have. but my method works I even had the same dinos you had the brown buggers. I have tried using the product with out the black out it diden't work

thormx · Jul 25, 2015

Bugger said:
I have had dinos many times. I simply blackout the that for two days not completly just enough to darken the tank. And dose the product for a week. I have never got a micoscope to look and see what I have. but my method works I even had the same dinos you had the brown buggers. I have tried using the product with out the black out it diden't work

What product?

craigcolbert · Jul 25, 2015

And do you do it daily?

Bugger · Jul 25, 2015

Dino Algea x or whatever its called now a days. It is dosed every second day. With aa photo period of 10 hours blue 6 hours white. with no GAC, carbon, or zeolite

craigcolbert · Jul 25, 2015

That's maximum lighting though isn't it? I have mine on for 7blue 6 white... Doesn't seem to be clearing any algae at all in mine lol

Bugger · Jul 25, 2015

It dosen't actually make dino disapear like it does to green algae. you still have to remove it yourself. The two day black out will do wonders

craigcolbert · Jul 25, 2015

It's green algae I have mainly what should I be looking for?

Jizu Puentes · Nov 20, 2015

With the dirty method how long should I leave the skimmer off and GFO out? I am trying the method on my 110 but i have a note to add about my 29 gallon in my bedroom. The 29 gallon was setup with some rock from the 110 and also broke out with dinoflagellates. This tank only housed a mandarin and i fed it mysis twice a day. I only did 5 gallon water changes once a month in this tank and the dino snot was eventually taken over by GHA and hasn't come back. Now I just have to get rid of the GHA and I am good to go.

Jax5on · May 30, 2017

Montireef said:
Those are dinoflagellates for sure, maybe not only of one kind. That weird snotty dough might be due to the use of Dino X as dinoflagellates secrete mucilage in different quantities depending on how "happy" they are; they sometimes develop cysts before they die.

@craigcolbert: NOPOX to a dino bloom is like petrol to a a bonfire.
@scardall: You don't want to brush all that stuff and spread the problem.

Please, be careful with those pieces of advice that make things worse.

I have dealt with dinoflagellates many times and for so long, these are my conclusions:

- The first thing you have to do is identify the dinoflagellate species. Products like DinoX, Dinoxal...do not always work and won't work for many of the species of dino that are quite common, such as ostreopsis and gambierdiscus. It does work again amphidinium (but for that species also works a 5-days balckout. These products will decimate many small critters and which is worse, it will take long to clean those chemicals from the aquarium. So, id the dinoflagellates species and then decide if you use it or not. Fauna Marin and all other manufacturers SHOULD indicate that DinoX won't work with many of the dinoflagellates species, their advertising is not clear and is not true.
- Do not blow or wipe the snotty stuff, pumps running at a minimum. The wort thing you can do is spread the stuff away.
- Vacuum all the snot through a filter sock, every day. You'd better pick a 50 micron (or less) filter because dinoflagellates range from 10 to 100 microns (ostreopsis is a big one and amphidinium is smaller)
- Stop the skimmer. This is very important, two or three days after stopping it you will notice an important decrease in dinoflagellates.
- Increase feedings, use frozen food. This will encourage emergence of pods which do guzzle dinoflagellates and will prevent them to come back.
- Do not make any water changes. Dinoflagellates love new clean water and that is something that triggers their breeding.

I have fought ostreopsis and amphidinium for so long... these is what has worked for me:

- Parvilucifera sinensis inoculation. This is a natural parasite of many kind of dinos. It works great, the problem is with those species that develop cysts: they come back after a few weeks or months.

- Oxyrrhis marina. This is a heterotrophic tiny dinoflagellate that will devour any other dinoflagellate, and some other small critters (ie ciliates and nematodes). After it's use you will notice a yellowish biofilm on the walls and rocks that is quickly eaten by snails and some fish. Same problem: dinoflagellates make cysts and may come back after some weeks (but if you feed the tank with phytoplankton or frozen foods you can keep oxyrrhis marina, and dinoflagellates in check...for ever.). Check this video: http://blog.coralwonders.com/en/en-una-gota-de-agua-2a-parte/

- The "dirty method". This is what has best worked for my and for many others. Stop skimmer, vacuum clean and feed frozen foods (don't rinse) and slowly take your NO3 and PO4 up (just NO3 to 0,2 and PO4 to 0,03 ppm). In about one/two weeks dinos are gone and you will have tons of pods that will eat even cysts.

I would share parvilucifera and oxyrrhis to any one that wants to try, but I live in Europe and I presume you are in the States.

I like the idea of the dirty method. Should i run carbon to remove any toxins released by the dino. This is my first time running into this problem. Please help!

mattstanks2016 · Jun 17, 2017

Jax5on said:
I like the idea of the dirty method. Should i run carbon to remove any toxins released by the dino. This is my first time running into this problem. Please help!

I run carbon, because the dinos can release toxin that will kill my snails and or copepod population.