Current Quarantine Protocol

[jmoney7]

I've had somebody tell me that dechlorinator isn't an issue with amine based copper products, so I'm waffling on that aspect of being careful with reducing agents when using these copper products. I still feel that care must be taken with ammonia reducing products (Amquel, Prime, etc.). So - as long as you use the proper amount of dechlor for the amount of water you are using, you should be fine. The basis for all this are reports I keep having about people running into copper toxicity problems, while I never see that myself. One big difference is that due to my systems, I never use reducing agents, while home aquarists frequently do, but the issue may have some other basis, so I'm still pondering that....

Jay

I read a forum about how prime is only ok to use with copper power. I am using it rn with no issues.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I read a forum about how prime is only ok to use with copper power. I am using it rn with no issues.

Trouble is - nobody has done actual testing on this, it is just anecdotal information. To be safe, you should not use any reducing agents with amine-bonded copper products. Or, if you go use them, don’t use a higher than normal dose. The chemistry of these products are complicated. For example - ammonia reducers bind with free ammonia first, but if used in excess, will they start to break the copper-amine bond? Nobody knows for sure.

 

[jmoney7]

Trouble is - nobody has done actual testing on this, it is just anecdotal information. To be safe, you should not use any reducing agents with amine-bonded copper products. Or, if you go use them, don’t use a higher than normal dose. The chemistry of these products are complicated. For example - ammonia reducers bind with free ammonia first, but if used in excess, will they start to break the copper-amine bond? Nobody knows for sure.

Yeah makes sense

 

[Reefer1978]

@Jay Hemdal could you please explain

"Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10."

a bit more, and would a 14-day Copper QT work as long as the fish were transferred from copper water straight to DT?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal could you please explain

"Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10."

a bit more, and would a 14-day Copper QT work as long as the fish were transferred from copper water straight to DT?

No - 14 day copper treatment is too short, even with ionic copper (21 days for that, 30 days for amine-based copper.) What I'm suggesting is a second rise in the copper level and then move the fish out while they are still in the second copper dose, that reduces the chances that there are any free living tomites in the water.

 

[William Chiavetta]

2023 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough


Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank. This process does not control Brooklynella, Uronema, viruses or internal parasites. Those issues however, make up a much smaller number of disease cases in marine fish.

Quarantine tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.

• Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
• The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD
• Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-absorbing sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
• Heater/thermometer
• Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
• Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank.
• A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate.
• A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
• Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.

Days 1 – 2: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.

• Set QT temperature to 78 - 80 degrees F.
• Acclimate the new fish to the QT:
  • Measure salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Adjust salinity in QT to within 2 ppt of the salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Acclimate the fish to the QT gradually over 45 minutes.
• Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
• Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.

Day 2: Begin Copper Treatment

• Add Coppersafe to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.25 to 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.25 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use.
• Never use ammonia removing products or other reducing agents (dechlorinator) when dosing copper. Most products bind copper with an amine to reduce toxicity to the fish. Reducing agents break that bond, releasing free copper that can harm the fish.
• Feed and top off tank water normally.

Days 3 – 32: Continue Copper Treatment

• Monitor copper ppm regularly. If the copper level remains steady day to day, you can test less often, but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you may need to restart the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
• Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
• If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes (pre dosed with copper) to correct the problem.

Day 34: Copper Done

• Begin copper removal through water changes.
• Binding agents Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process.
• Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.

Day 35: Praziquantel Treatment #1

• Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously.
• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label.
• Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.

Day 42, Day 49: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3

• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label, 7 days apart. Spacing needed for these treatments is based on killing new flukes hatching from previously laid eggs. The time interval is not well known. A range of 7 to 9 days seems to give the best results.

Day 64: New Fish QT complete

• Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose. Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10.
• Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
• Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.

Variation from this process:
Do not use copper on sharks, rays, eels or flashlight fish.
Wild caught clownfish are prone to Brooklynella, and may need formalin treatments.

All wild caught fish have a potentially high mortality rate from a variety of other reasons, just be aware that losing fish during this quarantine time can happen.

How many fish should I have in my qt at once? Is the Praziquantel treatment really necessary if I'm just getting a random fish from my LFS?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How many fish should I have in my qt at once? Is the Praziquantel treatment really necessary if I'm just getting a random fish from my LFS?

How many you quarantine depends on the size of your quarantine tank and how many fish you buy at one time. I have fish shipped in, so I need to buy quite a few at one time. I quarantine them together, but in large tanks. You can quarantine just one fish at a time if you want to though, or if you have just a small quarantine tank.

Praziquantel is a good preventative for fluke infections. Fish often pick these up while going from the importer to the pet store.

 

[William Chiavetta]

How many you quarantine depends on the size of your quarantine tank and how many fish you buy at one time. I have fish shipped in, so I need to buy quite a few at one time. I quarantine them together, but in large tanks. You can quarantine just one fish at a time if you want to though, or if you have just a small quarantine tank.

Praziquantel is a good preventative for fluke infections. Fish often pick these up while going from the importer to the pet store.

Thank you!

 

[Billyreef-ita]

Thanks Jay for writing this very clear instructions!

 

[LiquidSpace]

I have upgraded to a 200 gallon and am setting up a permanent quarantine tank. I’m using well established ceramic marinepure biomedia in it. Is it okay to continue using this for each incoming fish after dosing copper power and prazi on the prior fish?

Established media for QT -> copper power -> prazi -> water change, clean equipment -> put media back in, add new fish and begin again.

From what I can see this should be okay, but just want to make sure so I don’t kill anything.

 

[sc50964]

I have upgraded to a 200 gallon and am setting up a permanent quarantine tank. I’m using well established ceramic marinepure biomedia in it. Is it okay to continue using this for each incoming fish after dosing copper power and prazi on the prior fish?

Established media for QT -> copper power -> prazi -> water change, clean equipment -> put media back in, add new fish and begin again.

From what I can see this should be okay, but just want to make sure so I don’t kill anything.

I always restart my media by drying it out then reseed it before using it again

 

[MnFish1]

I have upgraded to a 200 gallon and am setting up a permanent quarantine tank. I’m using well established ceramic marinepure biomedia in it. Is it okay to continue using this for each incoming fish after dosing copper power and prazi on the prior fish?

Established media for QT -> copper power -> prazi -> water change, clean equipment -> put media back in, add new fish and begin again.

From what I can see this should be okay, but just want to make sure so I don’t kill anything.

Not sure what you're saying as relates to the QT protocol recommended here - but - I would clean QT tanks between use. Why are so many people buying so many fish that they need a quarantine tank available

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have upgraded to a 200 gallon and am setting up a permanent quarantine tank. I’m using well established ceramic marinepure biomedia in it. Is it okay to continue using this for each incoming fish after dosing copper power and prazi on the prior fish?

Established media for QT -> copper power -> prazi -> water change, clean equipment -> put media back in, add new fish and begin again.

From what I can see this should be okay, but just want to make sure so I don’t kill anything.

I take a different stance on this - if you are using non-calcareous biomedia and if you moved fish from the QT to your DT, there is no reason to sterilize the QT, as any disease that might have been lurking in there is now in your DT anyway. You can sterilize the QT if you won't be using it again soon, but I like to always have a good QT running in case I need to move a fish back into it.

 

[LiquidSpace]

Jay, do you have a specific protocol for invertebrate QT? I figure if I’m putting in the effort to QT my fish I should set up an invertebrate QT as well.

I know no medication would be used. Should it be run like a fallow tank?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay, do you have a specific protocol for invertebrate QT? I figure if I’m putting in the effort to QT my fish I should set up an invertebrate QT as well.

I know no medication would be used. Should it be run like a fallow tank?

What I do is this: if the invertebrates are CUC, or single inverts like starfish, shrimp, crabs, etc., and they came from a system that did NOT have fish in it, I often will just move them right into my display. If they were housed with untreated fish, I'll house them for 30 days (60 days if there might have been a disease in the tank they came from) in isolation from all other fish. Corals can carry specific pests, so I like to hold them in a coral prop tray to observe them for pests for as long as it might take for the pests to show up (45 days+)

 

[kboogie]

@Humblefish I was wondering your thoughts on combining medications to shorten quarantine times? I've been fallow since July, I lost everything to velvet. I just got a few bimac anthias and a purple tang who are in my dedicated full-time quarantine tank. After a two-day observation period, I started Coppersafe five days ago. It is running a little high (2.64 ppm) because I overestimated the total water volume with the chiller. I'm following "the protocol" but I also wanted to prophylactically treat for bacteria and fungal infections as well. I have Kannaplex on-hand and could get any other medication needed. I was wondering if it would be bad to also treat for bacteria and fungal infections at the same time as the coppersafe treatment? I'm hoping to have some life back in the DT for the holidays. It is a FOWLR so right now all we get to observe is rock.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Humblefish I was wondering your thoughts on combining medications to shorten quarantine times? I've been fallow since July, I lost everything to velvet. I just got a few bimac anthias and a purple tang who are in my dedicated full-time quarantine tank. After a two-day observation period, I started Coppersafe five days ago. It is running a little high (2.64 ppm) because I overestimated the total water volume with the chiller. I'm following "the protocol" but I also wanted to prophylactically treat for bacteria and fungal infections as well. I have Kannaplex on-hand and could get any other medication needed. I was wondering if it would be bad to also treat for bacteria and fungal infections at the same time as the coppersafe treatment? I'm hoping to have some life back in the DT for the holidays. It is a FOWLR so right now all we get to observe is rock.

It isn't really a good idea to treat for bacterial or fungal issues unless there are clear symptoms that there is an infection. External fungal infections are very rare in marine fish (I've only seen 2 or 3 cases). Treating with antibiotics is an issue, as that can produce resistant strains of bacteria. Virtually all bacteria that infect marine fish are gram negative species that are naturally found in aquariums - they gain a foothold on fish through damage to the fish's skin. There are rare internal bacterial infections, but dosing the water doesn't help against those.

 

[alex37310]

What I do is this: if the invertebrates are CUC, or single inverts like starfish, shrimp, crabs, etc., and they came from a system that did NOT have fish in it, I often will just move them right into my display. If they were housed with untreated fish, I'll house them for 30 days (60 days if there might have been a disease in the tank they came from) in isolation from all other fish. Corals can carry specific pests, so I like to hold them in a coral prop tray to observe them for pests for as long as it might take for the pests to show up (45 days+)

Could you explain more on the coral qt, I’m looking to get my first and do not have a spare light nor can afford one atm

Do you have a prop tray in the tank or out of the tank close to the lights? Or in a whole different setup! What would be best in my case scenario?

Thanks @Jay Hemdal !!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Could you explain more on the coral qt, I’m looking to get my first and do not have a spare light nor can afford one atm

Do you have a prop tray in the tank or out of the tank close to the lights? Or in a whole different setup! What would be best in my case scenario?

Thanks @Jay Hemdal !!

To do this most effectively, you need to have a complete isolation tank with lights, filters, etc. This has to have separate water from your main tank.

If you can’t run a setup like that, your next best bet is to “know your supplier” - be sure that have good quality, pest free corals.

 

[alex37310]

To do this most effectively, you need to have a complete isolation tank with lights, filters, etc. This has to have separate water from your main tank.

If you can’t run a setup like that, your next best bet is to “know your supplier” - be sure that have good quality, pest free corals.

I would probably have to find the best local suppliers. I’m in Orlando, do you happen to recommend anyone in central Florida? I believe WWC and TopShelf are my best best locally but I’m willing to drive a bit for quality.

Would you still recommend dipping? If so which specific ones ?