Current Quarantine Protocol

[ASIN28]

So let say you do this quaritine as suggested, and then you add the fish to your reef tank, and bam in 2 weeks the fish has ick, or etc. how is it possible to make sure your dt doesn’t have any of these parasites. Any suggestions would be appreciated, I’m tired of losing tangs in general to ick in my reef tank. To be honest, I’ve banned adding tangs to my tank, and I love tangs..

I know people who have put fish through extensive QT similar to what Jay wrote up for us, and then put the fish into the display and BAM, Ich... What Jay wrote up for us is amazing and is in everyone’s best interest to follow if they wish to QT, however in my opinion it is still a risk regardless.

 

[ASIN28]

I have checked copper daily with Hanna checker and copper has never drooped below 2.3. So I would assume that I am ok with continuing the treatment for the 30 days. I will definitely not put the rock back into a display but in the emergency I wanted the rock to control ammonia and its only a couple of small pieces. Right now I'm on Day 21 so I don't want to start over if I don't have to. Fish are looking great and eating good.

That’s great to hear! Yea, as long as it doesn’t drop below 2.0 you are good to continue. Once it drops below that 2.0, if you are on day 29 well guess what, now you are back to day 1! Lol
And to prevent it from dropping below the 2.0 is why people don’t recommend adding rock which will absorb the copper

 

[Bepis]

2021 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough



Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank.

Tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.

• Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
• The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD
• Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-absorbing sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
• Heater/thermometer
• Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
• Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank.
• A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate.
• A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
• Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.

Days 1 – 3: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.

• Set QT temperature to 80 degrees.
• Acclimate the new fish to the QT.
• Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
• Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.

Day 4: Begin Copper Treatment

• Add Coppersafe to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.50 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use
• Feed and top off tank water normally.

Days 5 – 34: Continue Copper Treatment

• Monitor copper ppm regularly. If fluctuations do not occur, you can skip day(s), but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you will need to restart the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
• Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
• If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes to correct the problem.

Day 35: Copper Done

• Begin copper removal through water changes.
• Zeolites such as Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process.
• Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.

Day 36: Praziquantel Treatment #1

• Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously.
• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label.
• Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.

Day 41, Day 48: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3

• Add Prazipro to the DT per the instructions on the label, 7 days apart.

Day 62: New Fish QT complete

• Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose.
• Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
• Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.

It says add prazi to the display tank, is prazi reef safe?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It says add prazi to the display tank, is prazi reef safe?

I thought I fixed that. It should say quarantine tank. Prazi is mostly reef safe, but may harm worms. It also requires supplemental aeration. Some people have reported minor declines in corals after treatment. This process is all done in QT though, thanks.
Jay

 

[threebuoys]

I have checked copper daily with Hanna checker and copper has never drooped below 2.3. So I would assume that I am ok with continuing the treatment for the 30 days. I will definitely not put the rock back into a display but in the emergency I wanted the rock to control ammonia and its only a couple of small pieces. Right now I'm on Day 21 so I don't want to start over if I don't have to. Fish are looking great and eating good.

@ASIN28 is correct. The reason not to include the live rock is to avoid absorption of the copper. If you have monitored the ppm and avoided drops below 2.0 you should be ok. I hope you have also monitored your ammonia levels. Another issue with live rock in QT is the difficulty in predicting just how much is needed to adequately process the ammonia since the nitrogen cycle relies on the bacteria and ammonia coming in contact with each other. Lots of live rock and heavy water flow makes this a non-issue for the DT.

David

 

[arking_mark]

Just my 2 cents, but TTM seems simpler and quicker if your only acclimating a 1-2 fish at a time.

1. Does not require a large cycled tank that can house the fish for extended periods of time. Just two small tanks or buckets with heated aerated water.
2. Does not require copper which some fish do not tolerate well. Especially finicky eaters. You are just out running the ick/velvet.
3. You can still treat with Prazipro/Metro/General Cure during TTM
4. You just need to monitor Ammonia if your using small tanks/buckets and do a partial water change and siphon cleanup if it starts to rise.
5. Fish is ready in 13 days.

Cons:
1. Requires duplicate tanks/buckets
2. Have to clean tanks between transfers
3. Lots of ASW used

 

[mehaffydr]

@ASIN28 is correct. The reason not to include the live rock is to avoid absorption of the copper. If you have monitored the ppm and avoided drops below 2.0 you should be ok. I hope you have also monitored your ammonia levels. Another issue with live rock in QT is the difficulty in predicting just how much is needed to adequately process the ammonia since the nitrogen cycle relies on the bacteria and ammonia coming in contact with each other. Lots of live rock and heavy water flow makes this a non-issue for the DT.

David

I have a ammonia badge and I also added Dr Tim’s bacteria just to be sure. I am also doing regular water change I also have HOB filter and 2 power heads to move water

 

[Peter Houde]

2021 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough



Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank.

Tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.

• Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
• The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD
• Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-absorbing sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
• Heater/thermometer
• Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
• Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank.
• A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate.
• A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
• Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.

Days 1 – 3: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.

• Set QT temperature to 80 degrees.
• Acclimate the new fish to the QT.
• Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
• Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.

Day 4: Begin Copper Treatment

• Add Coppersafe to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.50 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use
• Feed and top off tank water normally.

Days 5 – 34: Continue Copper Treatment

• Monitor copper ppm regularly. If fluctuations do not occur, you can skip day(s), but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you will need to restart the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
• Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
• If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes to correct the problem.

Day 35: Copper Done

• Begin copper removal through water changes.
• Zeolites such as Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process.
• Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.

Day 36: Praziquantel Treatment #1

• Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously.
• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label.
• Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.

Day 41, Day 48: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3

• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label, 7 days apart.

Day 62: New Fish QT complete

• Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose.
• Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
• Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.

Dear Jay,
Thanks for the protocol. Whether fortunately or unfortunately, neither Crypto nor flukes are my problem. It is spontaneous pale-face disease. Can you make a guess at its cause and appropriate treatment? It appears to be contagious because it first suddenly appeared in my aquarium with the addition of a new unquarantined fish many years ago. Several fish including a tang, damselfish, and basslet instantly and simultaneously got it; others (notably a couple of clownfish that are still clowning around) didn't. If I recall correctly (because it was long ago), some other fish may have died (a couple of damselfish, clowns, and maybe tangs, but I'm guessing, I really don't remember). Of the tang, damselfish, and basslet that survived, the loss of all facial color progressed caudally somewhat over 5-10 years, but very slowly and never caudal to the pectoral fins. However, the tang and damsel did have possibly unrelated caudal fin deterioration and the tang also exhibited severe open lesion of the caudal peduncle. Despite these symptoms lasting for years and years on end, none of the surviving fish ever showed any behavioral deficits or effects whatsoever. The tang was King of the aquarium until he finally succumbed (I had hoped he'd do so years sooner so I could restock the tank). But I've given up on waiting for the damselfish to die. It is still alive (it is at least 15 years old now) and I'm afraid it will infect any new fish I want to add to the aquarium. I care a lot about my fish and I don't want to kill even a damselfish. I've got a new tang that has already been waiting in quarantine for me to get this sorted out for a couple of months already.

Here's what I've tried to date. I added metranidazole and nitrofurantoin to all fish food in the display tank for about two months. I subsequently moved the damsel to a quarantine tank, and I've tried sequentially treating it with a 5 min freshwater dip, extended hyposalinity, 5 successive weekly treatments of 2.5 mg/l praziquantel, 2 weeks 5mg/l copper sulfate, and now 4 days into a 5 day nitrofurazone treatment that I may repeat. The one thing I can say for certain is that the damsel shows no improvement. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks in advance for your advice.
Cheers, Peter

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Dear Jay,
Thanks for the protocol. Whether fortunately or unfortunately, neither Crypto nor flukes are my problem. It is spontaneous pale-face disease. Can you make a guess at its cause and appropriate treatment? It appears to be contagious because it first suddenly appeared in my aquarium with the addition of a new unquarantined fish many years ago. Several fish including a tang, damselfish, and basslet instantly and simultaneously got it; others (notably a couple of clownfish that are still clowning around) didn't. If I recall correctly (because it was long ago), some other fish may have died (a couple of damselfish, clowns, and maybe tangs, but I'm guessing, I really don't remember). Of the tang, damselfish, and basslet that survived, the loss of all facial color progressed caudally somewhat over 5-10 years, but very slowly and never caudal to the pectoral fins. However, the tang and damsel did have possibly unrelated caudal fin deterioration and the tang also exhibited severe open lesion of the caudal peduncle. Despite these symptoms lasting for years and years on end, none of the surviving fish ever showed any behavioral deficits or effects whatsoever. The tang was King of the aquarium until he finally succumbed (I had hoped he'd do so years sooner so I could restock the tank). But I've given up on waiting for the damselfish to die. It is still alive (it is at least 15 years old now) and I'm afraid it will infect any new fish I want to add to the aquarium. I care a lot about my fish and I don't want to kill even a damselfish. I've got a new tang that has already been waiting in quarantine for me to get this sorted out for a couple of months already.

Here's what I've tried to date. I added metranidazole and nitrofurantoin to all fish food in the display tank for about two months. I subsequently moved the damsel to a quarantine tank, and I've tried sequentially treating it with a 5 min freshwater dip, extended hyposalinity, 5 successive weekly treatments of 2.5 mg/l praziquantel, 2 weeks 5mg/l copper sulfate, and now 4 days into a 5 day nitrofurazone treatment that I may repeat. The one thing I can say for certain is that the damsel shows no improvement. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks in advance for your advice.
Cheers, Peter

Hi Peter,

Could you cut and paste the info you typed and start a new thread in the fish disease section below? Also, pictures are going to really help in this case. Here is a link to some notes about what info we need to see about your tank:

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks,

Jay

 

[StPatrick89]

Silica or quartz sand works, just rinse it well first. Copper inhibits the beneficial bacteria a little, but perhaps only 25%, and in reality, what some people don't realize is that the three common copper meds are all bound with ammonia compounds. So for example, if you dose coppersafe and then check the tank for ammonia, you'll get a reading of over 0.40 ppm. People think - oh, the copper killed my bacteria, when actually the copper had ammonia in it(grin).

jay

So if you use copper should you use something like Seachem prime to “detoxify” the ammonia since copper adds ammonia?

 

[Phycodurus]

thank you very much for this updated protocol, jay.

i had been meaning to post a question about the end of copper treatment, but it seems timely here:

at the conclusion of copper treatment (day 35), would it be better to transfer the fish to a second “fresh” QT (aged & cycled), and proceed with praziquantel treatment there?

i’m zeroing in on the tomont stage (cyst stage), understanding that copper kills only the free-swimming tomites. what’s the likelihood there will still be ‘unhatched’ tomonts in the QT?


respectfully,
rick

 

[arking_mark]

I know people who have put fish through extensive QT similar to what Jay wrote up for us, and then put the fish into the display and BAM, Ich... What Jay wrote up for us is amazing and is in everyone’s best interest to follow if they wish to QT, however in my opinion it is still a risk regardless.

So if you add any QT'd fish to a tank that had ich and never eradicated it, the fish can still catch ich. This is especially true for stressed fish...which new fish tend to be. This can cause a chain reaction and larger ich outbreak.

To get rid of ich from a display tank...you need to run fallow for 45 days or longer depending on who you ask. I've had to do this 3 time over the last 20+ years.

Many swear by ich management...but I'll leave that to others.

 

[Bepis]

It says to use cycled filtration, does this mean you can place some media in your tank to gain bacteria and / or use water from your actual tank (perhaps after a WC)?

 

[Peter Houde]

Hi Peter,

Could you cut and paste the info you typed and start a new thread in the fish disease section below? Also, pictures are going to really help in this case. Here is a link to some notes about what info we need to see about your tank:

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks,

Jay

I thought I fixed that. It should say quarantine tank. Prazi is mostly reef safe, but may harm worms. It also requires supplemental aeration. Some people have reported minor declines in corals after treatment. This process is all done in QT though, thanks.
Jay

Thanks so much for the quick reply! I'll post that thread, but I probably won't be able to get to it until the weekend. Cheers, Peter

 

[threebuoys]

It says to use cycled filtration, does this mean you can place some media in your tank to gain bacteria and / or use water from your actual tank (perhaps after a WC)?

Media from the DT or sump other than rock or material that absorbs/adsorbs copper is best. Water alone is less likely to be successful since the bacteria required to cycle ammonia lives primarily on surfaces and not in the water column.

I keep several pieces of foam in my sump which I can move to a QT or to a new tank, etc, when I need to fast start a tank. 30 ppi foam is particularly effective because of the surface area. I place it in the QT filter to get adequate water flow to maximize contact with any ammonia produced by the fish in QT.

David

 

[FishyFishFish]

This is awesome. Thanks very much.

Could I ask a question about water testing? Copper is easy, as I have a Hanna checker which seems to work really well, but what else should I be testing for and how? I’m trying to determine if/when I need to do a water change.

I have a Seachem badge but I’m not confident it is working. I used that same badge on a different tank before, and it didn’t show anything when I added Ammonium Chloride to cycle it. Should it have picked up the Ammonium Chloride? What other testers work for Ammonia in the presence of copper? Do I even need to test for ammonia?

What about nitrate? Are normal test kits ok? I know API isn’t ideal but I have one sitting here and could use that, to save cross-contamination with the copper and my NYOS nitrate test kit. Would that be ok?

Thanks,

 

[threebuoys]

This is awesome. Thanks very much.

Could I ask a question about water testing? Copper is easy, as I have a Hanna checker which seems to work really well, but what else should I be testing for and how? I’m trying to determine if/when I need to do a water change.

I have a Seachem badge but I’m not confident it is working. I used that same badge on a different tank before, and it didn’t show anything when I added Ammonium Chloride to cycle it. Should it have picked up the Ammonium Chloride? What other testers work for Ammonia in the presence of copper? Do I even need to test for ammonia?

What about nitrate? Are normal test kits ok? I know API isn’t ideal but I have one sitting here and could use that, to save cross-contamination with the copper and my NYOS nitrate test kit. Would that be ok?

Thanks,

I suggest you go to the "Reef Chemistry by Randy Holmes-Farley" Forum and search for specific kits or general tests you are concerned about. You will find lots of commentary and opinions, pros and cons to help you decide.

David

 

[FishyFishFish]

I’m happy with the kits available; this was a specific question about the Seachem badge (which is often recommended for QT) and testing in the presence of copper. I thought it would be good to have those answers together on a thread about how to quarantine.

 

[threebuoys]

I’m happy with the kits available; this was a specific question about the Seachem badge (which is often recommended for QT) and testing in the presence of copper. I thought it would be good to have those answers together on a thread about how to quarantine.

The reason I referenced the other forum is because you will see a lot of different opinions concerning ammonia testing in the presence of copper, and because the alert badge works differently than other tests since it only detects free ammonia. Differing opinions about the accuracy of the badge as well as the accuracy of the various ammonia test kits even when no copper is present are also voiced there.

I personally use the badge on my QT. I have also used the seachem Ammonia test kit which has the capablliity of measuring both free and total ammonia. I also test for nitrate in the QT tank. If the QT was set up with freshly mixed saltwater rather than DT tank water, and If nitrate is present, it's a good sign the QT is cycled and ammonia is being processed.

Hope this helps.

David

 

[jaganshi066]

Media from the DT or sump other than rock or material that absorbs/adsorbs copper is best. Water alone is less likely to be successful since the bacteria required to cycle ammonia lives primarily on surfaces and not in the water column.

I keep several pieces of foam in my sump which I can move to a QT or to a new tank, etc, when I need to fast start a tank. 30 ppi foam is particularly effective because of the surface area. I place it in the QT filter to get adequate water flow to maximize contact with any ammonia produced by the fish in QT.

David

Can you use ceramic media for a quick at start up or no?