COPPERSAFE WARNING along with Research on Hanna Instruments High Range Copper Checker

HotRocks · Mar 18, 2018

Humblefish said:
If this all pans out, I will be rewriting some stickies and changing my recommendations. I’ll also be ordering a Hanna High Range Copper Colorimeter for myself. Thanks for challenging the status quo @HotRocks!!

I am just like the rest of us trying to figure out a way to make it easier, yet still affordable! I remain hopeful, as the testing throughout my new batch in QT will be the true test!

It will also be nice having additional people with the testers reporting findings. It does take very accurate means of measure when playing with small amounts.

Humblefish · Mar 18, 2018

One thing I really want to know about Copper Power is WHY must we treat @ 2.5ppm. When 1.5ppm has always been accepted as the lowest therapeutic level for chelated copper. I will email them to see if I can get an answer to this.

4FordFamily · Mar 18, 2018

Humblefish said:
One thing I really want to know about Copper Power is WHY must we treat @ 2.5ppm. When 1.5ppm has always been accepted as the lowest therapeutic level for chelated copper. I will email them to see if I can get an answer to this.

I imagine we don’t. That’s my hypothesis. We are shooting for 2 on our end for our next qt batches we will know if it works soon!

Big G · Mar 18, 2018

4FordFamily said:
I imagine we don’t. That’s my hypothesis. We are shooting for 2 on our end for our next qt batches we will know if it works soon!

Sounds like we will need to do some treating of Copper Power on a variety of sick fish at various levels of copper. Can't say that I completely trust manufacturers these days.

HotRocks · Mar 19, 2018

Big G said:
Sounds like we will need to do some treating of Copper Power on a variety of sick fish at various levels of copper. Can't say that I completely trust manufacturers these days.

I will probably start copper power mid-week on my current batch that arrived Saturday!

HotRocks · Mar 19, 2018

Humblefish said:
One thing I really want to know about Copper Power is WHY must we treat @ 2.5ppm. When 1.5ppm has always been accepted as the lowest therapeutic level for chelated copper. I will email them to see if I can get an answer to this.

I am very interested to hear what they have to say. Let me know what you find out!

Brew12 · Mar 19, 2018

Humblefish said:
When 1.5ppm has always been accepted as the lowest therapeutic level for chelated copper.

Is this the lowest level for chelated copper, or is this the lowest level for copper chelated in the same way as coppersafe?

If Copper Power is chelated with a different ingredient it can impact its toxicity. A lower toxicity from a different chelating agent would require a higher treatment level to be effective.

drstardust · Mar 19, 2018

Brew12 said:
Is this the lowest level for chelated copper, or is this the lowest level for copper chelated in the same way as coppersafe?

If Copper Power is chelated with a different ingredient it can impact its toxicity. A lower toxicity from a different chelating agent would require a higher treatment level to be effective.

Good point!

joec · Mar 19, 2018

I'm a total noob getting ready to treat first fish ever in QT prophylactically in a couple weeks with new bottle of Coppersafe, and this thread is making me nervous.

I'm ready to ditch the Coppersafe and order a bottle of Copper Power, it seems most prudent to me at this point

drstardust · Mar 19, 2018

joec said:
I'm a total noob getting ready to treat first fish ever in QT prophylactically in a couple weeks with new bottle of Coppersafe, and this thread is making me nervous. I'm ready to ditch the Coppersafe and order a bottle of Copper Power, it seems most prudent to me at this point

Either decision would be appropriate. If you've already bought the Coppersafe you can go ahead and use it, just being reallllly careful about dosing, starting at a very low dose, testing frequently, and paying no mind to the instructions on the bottle as we have learned they are garbage.

If it would make you feel better to just ditch it and go with Copper Power, though, I assure you no one would blame you

HotRocks · Mar 19, 2018

drstardust said:
Either decision would be appropriate. If you've already bought the Coppersafe you can go ahead and use it, just being reallllly careful about dosing, starting at a very low dose, testing frequently, and paying no mind to the instructions on the bottle as we have learned they are garbage.

If it would make you feel better to just ditch it and go with Copper Power, though, I assure you no one would blame you

+1 to either way. and very frequent testing if going the route of copper safe.

joec · Mar 19, 2018

Copper Power ordered. If Mardel can't be relied on to do elementary QC, screw them. Noobs have enough uncertainty to deal with as it is

drawman · Mar 19, 2018

Following as well. I believe when I posted the thread a year or so ago about their labeled concentrations being wrong that my bottle was also too potent.

All the more reason to test, test, test when using any copper product. I never assume any aquarium company practices good quality control I think it's an easy way to get burned.

4FordFamily · Mar 19, 2018

drawman said:
Following as well. I believe when I posted the thread a year or so ago about their labeled concentrations being wrong that my bottle was also too potent.

All the more reason to test, test, test when using any copper product. I never assume any aquarium company practices good quality control I think it's an easy way to get burned.

Sad state of affairs.

So far all 3 bottles of Copper Power @HotRocks and I (mostly him, I’m just a bystander) tested were real close. The small variations honestly are probably the result of user error. I’m that confident in Hanna.

Big G · Mar 19, 2018

Just spoke to Doug at Hanna. Back orders on the Checker and calibration fluid should be filled within 2-3 days . . . but the 25 pk of reagents will be out for 3-4 weeks. @HotRocks, @4FordFamily, @drstardust, @Humblefish

drawman · Mar 19, 2018

4FordFamily said:
Sad state of affairs.

So far all 3 bottles of Copper Power @HotRocks and I (mostly him, I’m just a bystander) tested were real close. The small variations honestly are probably the result of user error. I’m that confident in Hanna.

You guys may be pushing me towards getting the checker

Big G · Mar 19, 2018

drawman said:
You guys may be pushing me towards getting the checker

Come on in, the waters fine

Brew12 · Mar 19, 2018

Big G said:
Just spoke to Doug at Hanna. Back orders on the Checker and calibration fluid should be filled within 2-3 days . . . but the 25 pk of reagents will be out for 3-4 weeks. @HotRocks, @4FordFamily, @drstardust, @Humblefish

Not sure if you saw, but BRS is looking into stocking the HR Copper tester too. That should help with supply concerns in the long run as well as increase its visibility with reefers.

Kyl · Mar 19, 2018

I just got off the phone with one of the Canadian scientific supply distributors we deal with at work today and they're getting inquiries on this out of the blue, in addition to mine. Reagents as well are 4-5 weeks listed ETA. Seems it’s spreading

NeuroticAquatics · Mar 19, 2018

Interesting. I’m gonna use the last of my coppersafe, as I typically just dose over a few days until I reach where I want to be, but if their product can’t be trusted and they are saying nothing is wrong (when it pretty clearly is) then they’ve lost me as a consumer. Amazing that they are not looking into this more.

The Hanna checker discovery is awesome. That’s next on my list!

Thanks to all that are contributing to this.