*COPPERSAFE WARNING* along with Research on Hanna Instruments High Range Copper Checker

[Humblefish]

My assumption of that is you have an outbreak that is extremely severe, the medication can be used up to that level and still be "safe" for the fish. If you look at the thread link above it might make a little more sense.

2.5ppm chelated copper could be needed to tackle a copper resistant strain of ich or velvet. For example, if a fish has been continuously exposed to subtherapeutic copper at a LFS or wholesaler then in theory the parasites could start becoming resistant to whatever type of copper was used.

Another reason they might recommend 2.5ppm is to ensure the copper level remains therapeutic; knowing many end users will use rock/sand in their QT, won't test, etc.

 

[HotRocks]

2.5ppm chelated copper could be needed to tackle a copper resistant strain of ich or velvet. For example, if a fish has been continuously exposed to subtherapeutic copper at a LFS or wholesaler then in theory the parasites could start becoming resistant to whatever type of copper was used.

Another reason they might recommend 2.5ppm is to ensure the copper level remains therapeutic; knowing many end users will use rock/sand in their QT, won't test, etc.

Thank you for elaborating on this.

 

[HotRocks]

Dear all,

the Hanna tester is very likely to use the same "chemistry" also applied in the salifert copper test kit. The Hanna Checker just measures the intensity of the blue coloration using a photometric system.

So this device should be very capeable to disaplay the concentration of copper arising from copper sulfate pentahydrate.

But with any copper products, its best to actually test the testing device first before using it in a real life scenario .

For instance: The copper sulfate pentahydrate solution mentioned in Humblefishs thread has a concentration of 1000 mg/l copper. If you take one litre of salt water and add 1 ml of the copper sulfate pentahydrate solution, stir well, and afterwards measure this solution with the Hanna Checker the reading should be 1.00 mg/l (or ppm). A tolerance of about 10% (0.9-1.1 mg/l or ppm) would be acceptable. This can also be used to test your Salifert/API copper tests and challange your color vision abilities


All the best,
Christoph

@Christoph
@Humblefish
@4FordFamily
And anyone else following or interested.

Ok guys, the DIY method mentioned above works perfectly with the Hanna high range copper checker.

This is the first time I have ever done anything like this. And following to the above mentioned post it's very easy to do.

I did cut the recipe in half. Contents were 20 bucks total on Amazon. And there is enough literally for life in the 2 bags fyi. The scale was an additional 20 dollars.

One thing we may need @Humblefish and @Christoph to elaborate on is at what level this type of copper is therapeutic, and the harshness known for certain species.
I just strictly followed the instructions for making it, and christoph's example test mentioned previously in this thread to see if it could be tested accurately using the Hanna method.

For the test, I used one gallon of saltwater. I dosed 3.8ml of the DIY copper solution. I arrive at that math since I used a gallon of water, roughly 3.8 liters to keep it simple. 1ml per liter should yeild a concentration of 1.0ppm. I ran 3 tests in total. Below you will find the results are indeed another successful trial. Exciting stuff!

 

[Humblefish]

@HotRocks Therapeutic range for copper sulfate pentahydrate is 0.15–0.20 mg/L. Very tight window and exact dosing is required.

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks Therapeutic range for copper sulfate pentahydrate is 0.15–0.20 mg/L. Very tight window and exact dosing is required.

I thought I had read that in your thread. That's why I wanted you to elaborate, as I just followed @Christoph instructions for a sample test. I didn't want anyone to get confused since the amount administered to the test is much higher than the theraputic level.

 

[deedubz]

Does coppersafe precipitate? I remember my old copper power bottle saying something like "unlike other copper, copper power doesn't precipitate" or something like that.

I have been doing my API testing a few times a day and will use the Hanna checker daily. It just dawned on me to ask

 

[HotRocks]

Does coppersafe precipitate? I remember my old copper power bottle saying something like "unlike other copper, copper power doesn't precipitate" or something like that.

I have been doing my API testing a few times a day and will use the Hanna checker daily. It just dawned on me to ask

It does not, you can have absorbtion depending on what all is in your QT. But in the regard of evaporation, it is like salt, you only need to top off QT with RODI water.

 

[4FordFamily]

Well so far it looks like @Hanna Instruments has nailed it!

 

[deedubz]

It does not, you can have absorbtion depending on what all is in your QT. But in the regard of evaporation, it is like salt, you only need to top off QT with RODI water.

Thank you. I do have a couple hob filters with the filter blocks and biomax. From what I read on Humblefish's matrix experience thread, guys(and gals) hadn't noticed absorption.. Though I'll certainly continue checking frequently

 

[4FordFamily]

“Coppersafe does not teleport like other copper products”

Ok I made that one up. Wouldn’t surprise me if I read it.

 

[deedubz]

“Coppersafe does not teleport like other copper products”

Ok I made that one up. Wouldn’t surprise me if I read it.

Lol. They may want to add "Unlike other copper products, we don't double up on potency and lie about it"

 

[HotRocks]

Also I tested cuprion tonight as well.

I dosed 2 drops to 1 gallon of saltwater. Intsructions read that one drop per gallon will yeild .2ppm.

Again dosing by the drop, and testing small amounts you have to be very precise with the accuracy of the Hanna method.

I know this is not a widely used product but have seen threads where it is the only thing available to some hobbyists. Again will need @Humblefish to elaborate on theraputic level etc.

Target was .4ppm, I ran three tests
Again, as expected accurate and within the +/-.05ppm.

It appears this tester is very useful and accurate in testing all types of copper. I would also note that if you are using ionic copper or the DIY Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate solution, (any copper with a low, tight therapeutic range) in combination with the Hanna you will probably want to add the .05ppm tolerance to your target in order to be sure you maintain theraputic levels.

 

[Christoph]

For the test, I used one gallon of saltwater. I dosed 3.8ml of the DIY copper solution. I arrive at that math since I used a gallon of water, roughly 3.8 liters to keep it simple. 1ml per liter should yeild a concentration of 1.0ppm. I ran 3 tests in total. Below you will find the results are indeed another successful trial. Exciting stuff!

Very well done! Please just make sure to remove the water label from the bottle, to avoid any confusion
You could of course also add less of the copper solution (~0.8 ml) to a gallon, this would bring you in the therapeutic range of ~0.2 mg/l copper. Youre absolutely right that the concentration you prepared is well above therapeutic concentration (1 mg ionic copper per litre) would be deadly to most fish. This solution is only intended for testing your copper test kits.

Also you could dilute 2 ml of your 1 mg/l solution with 8 ml of salt water (using a syringe) to create 0.2 mg/l. Use a 1 ml to 9 ml ration for creating a 0.1 mg/l sample. So you can test the checker over the whole therapeutic range.

@HotRocks Therapeutic range for copper sulfate pentahydrate is 0.15–0.20 mg/L. Very tight window and exact dosing is required.

Very true! Also 0-25-0.30 ppm should be ok for hardier fish. The "sensitive fish" list is basically the same as with cupramine or other ionic copper products. Also be careful with Zebrasoma tangs.


In my opinion copper is a great therapeutic but not a preventative. Copper (any product) is IMO to harsh a medication to expose any healthy fish.

Best,
Christoph

 

[4FordFamily]

With ich and velvet seemingly on every new arrival these days, prophylactic treatment of copper or CP is a must, IMO

Another type of copper, when dosed as instructed measures correctly! Well-done @HotRocks!

 

[HotRocks]

Anyone else get their checker yet today?! @dwwataz

I know @Big G is expecting his on or around the 28th!

 

[JoshKReef]

I just called and they said they are 4-7 weeks out for mine, and mentioned a bunch of orders for both alk / copper recently.

 

[deedubz]

Anyone else get their checker yet today?! @dwwataz

I know @Big G is expecting his on or around the 28th!

(One of) Mine will be here tomorrow. I'm only going to be able to use it to verify my API kit though. The reagents are on backorder with the rest of my (other) order. Still, if that thing proves I'm at therapeutic tomorrow, which I feel my fish have been doing just that, I'll be content.

 

[deedubz]

I feel like I have to be therapeutic now though. It is night and day difference. Symptoms have reduced exponentially, and they're all whipping and diving around beggin' Daddy for food!

 

[HotRocks]

I just called and they said they are 4-7 weeks out for mine, and mentioned a bunch of orders for both alk / copper recently.

OUCH! Yeah I know there are several people that have made mention of ordering, but who knows how many people have ordered without comment!

(One of) Mine will be here tomorrow. I'm only going to be able to use it to verify my API kit though. The reagents are on backorder with the rest of my (other) order. Still, if that thing proves I'm at therapeutic tomorrow, which I feel my fish have been doing just that, I'll be content.

Interested to see what you think!

 

[Christoph]

With ich and velvet seemingly on every new arrival these days, prophylactic treatment of copper or CP is a must, IMO

CP prophylactic, maybe, but for copper i tend to strongly disagree. If you let me make this comparison, its like starting chemotherapy on a patient without confirmed cancer diagnosis.

In my opinion every treatment needs to be based on a proper diagnosis. I see that the treatment part in fish medicine is very advanced, while often the diagnosis is lacking behind. - I would say thats a main issue the community has to face if we want to advance and make this hobby more fish-friendly.

Sorry for the off-topic!

Best,
Christoph