Clownfish not eating + white string + cycle

[alex37310]

Alright so I just spent 15min writing my post that disappeared as I was adding pictures


Bear with me, l'll try to keep it short, I can answer additional questions/info needed in comments...


Symptoms: fish not eating yesterday and barely taking a bit - white stringy on his bottom for 10min about 2 weeks ago then noticed again today


Usually fed: omega one mini pellets once a day.


He's also had freeze dried mysis/brine and frozen saltwater mix cubes which he's always shown to love. On rare occasions I give him some.


History:


Doing fish in cycle after following brs guide (yeah yeah IKIk, spare me the lecture I was not fully educated on the matter)

1. For starters I quickly discovered my prepped rodi with 10 salt had about 1ppm ammonia after mixing salt. Can't find the culprit yet. But 0 nitrite
2. Went to Ifs to get advice and get more dr Tim's one and only after realizing I should have removed the filter socks and I felt like my cycle was not starting and I was also getting concerned about ammonia toxicity.
   Employee advised doing water changes to maintain levels no higher than 1ppm ammonia.
3. went back for some update as I was confused about my ammonia in freshly made saltwater and asked for them to test. This time the manager was with the employee. He advised I stop water changes as it seems to be stalling my cycle and doesn't feel useful since I have ammonia in the water changed anyway. He said to ride it out.
4. finally had ammonia spike then drop almost at 0 today. Fish was acting normal during spike.
   
   
   Nitrite has been high for a few days and I'm having a hard time getting an exact result. These api test are not very clear. Can say if it's 2 or 5 or more so here is a picture.
   
   
   Also yes I started my cycle with fresh rodi 5 stage and had high nitrite and nitrate in. Didn't realized till later.
   
   
   Maybe due to the fact I used a an old return pump that was maybe not properly cleaned.
   
   
   And no chloramine in water.
   
   What are your thoughts?
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

We don't bother with nitrite testing in saltwater. The ammonia should be zero and you should see some nitrate, this will tell you if the tank is cycled. What is the ammonia and nitrate level?

I also see the water surface is very flat, I would turn that powerhead and point it upwards to agitate the surface, it will help oxygenate the water.

What size of tank is this and what type of filtration are you running?

As for not eating, the fish might have gotten diseased from the ammonia stress, #fishmedics will know more about that.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Mucus in clownfish feces is a common problem, and when it is combined with the fish not eating, it is very serious. Trouble is, there are multiple causes for this, some of which are not treatable:

Excess mucus in fish feces:

This will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food. However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not “drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct. Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation resolved.

 

[alex37310]

We don't bother with nitrite testing in saltwater. The ammonia should be zero and you should see some nitrate, this will tell you if the tank is cycled. What is the ammonia and nitrate level?

I also see the water surface is very flat, I would turn that powerhead and point it upwards to agitate the surface, it will help oxygenate the water.

What size of tank is this and what type of filtration are you running?

As for not eating, the fish might have gotten diseased from the ammonia stress, #fishmedics will know more about that.

Thank you so much for your reply. The tank was off during the first pictures because I was feeding him. Here are some pictures of my set up and of the surface with the pumps on. I have my return pump on the left which I believe is about 300 gallons per hour. I have a wave maker that does 1300 but is only set at 70%. I have a 500 and an 800 GPH power heads. The tank is a 55G and sump is 29G. Measuring nitrates now. Ammonia was .25 total for the first time last night and 0 this morning. Free ammonia below .02 per seachem patch

 

[alex37310]

I’m reading 10ish nitrate…?

 

[alex37310]

Current reading. Numbers on right is for nitrate, left is for ammonia and nitrite.

 

[alex37310]

Mucus in clownfish feces is a common problem, and when it is combined with the fish not eating, it is very serious. Trouble is, there are multiple causes for this, some of which are not treatable:

Excess mucus in fish feces:

This will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food. However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not “drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct. Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation resolved.

Thank you so much!! The first thing I thought of was parasite! Now I know a lot more thanks to you! I’m still unsure what to do tho. It is a new fish as I’ve only had him since 7/28 and is going through cycling. Should I medicate for anything? What is the best course of action to help this little guy? I’m making some more RODI right now to do a water change as well to bring back down the nitrite. I was under the impression from what I’m reading that nitrite were toxic too but also came upon some post saying newer research show they do not affect fish at all.

 

[alex37310]

Also socks are still off and skimmer is off too. Should I put them back/turn skimmer back on now?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

zero ammonia and 10 nitrates, IMO the tank is cycled.

 

[alex37310]

zero ammonia and 10 nitrates, IMO the tank is cycled.

My thoughts too. What should I do next? Especially regarding the fish? I have a qt tank that’s still cycling. I just moved the extra sponge I had put in my dt to my qt tank to help cycle faster. Do I need to medicate and move to qt asap. Only have this one clown but would like to get a couple more fish soon. Don’t want to shoot myself in the foot and not sure I should medicate in dt especially if I have a qt ready soon

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Next is to help the fish. I imagine it should be moved to a QT tank, but I don't know about this so will let the fish medics advise on the next step. Good luck #fishmedics

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you so much!! The first thing I thought of was parasite! Now I know a lot more thanks to you! I’m still unsure what to do tho. It is a new fish as I’ve only had him since 7/28 and is going through cycling. Should I medicate for anything? What is the best course of action to help this little guy? I’m making some more RODI right now to do a water change as well to bring back down the nitrite. I was under the impression from what I’m reading that nitrite were toxic too but also came upon some post saying newer research show they do not affect fish at all.

Nitrite is deadly to freshwater fish, but the sodium chloride in seawater negates the toxic effect. Marine fish have no issue with it at all.

There is really only a treatment for one of the causes of this - you can use metronidazole in the water (Metroplex) that will help against internal flagellate protozoans. Metro in the food at 1% by weight works even better, but the fish has to be eating well for that to work.

 

[alex37310]

I do plan on have corals sooner than later, and I’ve heard medication can go in rocks and have damage so that’s why I’m worried and asking.

My qt is bare bottom with pvc and I plan on having a second qt in future to separate fish/corals.

Also if I end up getting a second clown while medicating is it ok to put them both on the treated tank? I’m assuming treating a new fish in the qt with my older one wouldn’t hurt right?

Thanks Jay #fishmedic#fishmedicshelp!

 

[alex37310]

Nitrite is deadly to freshwater fish, but the sodium chloride in seawater negates the toxic effect. Marine fish have no issue with it at all.

There is really only a treatment for one of the causes of this - you can use metronidazole in the water (Metroplex) that will help against internal flagellate protozoans. Metro in the food at 1% by weight works even better, but the fish has to be eating well for that to work.

Also my qt is still in cycle and has ammonia but I am throw some prime in it while treating if necessary to move to qt.
If no issue with treating in dt I’m fine with it, I would assume it would treat the whole tank for any other unwanted guest that treatment could nuke

 

[alex37310]

Next is to help the fish. I imagine it should be moved to a QT tank, but I don't know about this so will let the fish medics advise on the next step. Good luck #fishmedics

Update, not sure if it’s significant but I was checking salinity to match/adjust with water change and my dt is at 1.028 instead of 1.0255, probably due to evaporation as I did not top off.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Update, not sure if it’s significant but I was checking salinity to match/adjust with water change and my dt is at 1.028 instead of 1.0255, probably due to evaporation as I did not top off.

Once you get the tank going, an Auto Top Off (ATO) is one of the best $100 you will spend in this hobby, it will top off automatically for you and keep the salinity stable. This allows you to leave for vacation

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I do plan on have corals sooner than later, and I’ve heard medication can go in rocks and have damage so that’s why I’m worried and asking.

My qt is bare bottom with pvc and I plan on having a second qt in future to separate fish/corals.

Also if I end up getting a second clown while medicating is it ok to put them both on the treated tank? I’m assuming treating a new fish in the qt with my older one wouldn’t hurt right?

Thanks Jay #fishmedic#fishmedicshelp!

Some medications absorb into rocks (copper) but others just dissipate over time.

I always advise people to hold off buy any new fish until existing sick fish have recovered for at least two weeks.

 

[alex37310]

@Jay Hemdal what should I do? I’m no sure how quickly I can get some metroplex. I do have prazipro on hand. My qt is not yet cycled. My display only has live rock and 1 clown. I wanted to make sure I do the right thing quickly as I’ve seen the white stringy already 2-3 weeks ago. Thank you soooo much for your help!

 

[alex37310]

Just came back from lfs. Was told I can metroplex and prazipro together in dt without causing issue since I just have 1 clown and live rocks. They didn’t saying anything about having to run carbon or anything like that after.
Got metroplex and focus, they did not have any garlic. He hasn’t eaten today or the past 2 days so hopefully he’ll eat the medicine. If not I’ll dose the tank.
Metroplex should I go with 1 or 2 measures per 10g for the tank?

Thanks #fishmed#fishmedics

 

[alex37310]

Also #fishmedics
Going to double treat and do metroplex and prazi, how much should I do each all day?

Prazi looks pretty straight forward and from what I’m reading from Jay, I should dose wait 10 days and water change + redose after for 3 cycles.

But I don’t know anything about metroplex. Do I do one or two dose? Every day or every other day? For how long? Etc

Thanks!!!