Chrysophytes - Any predators for removal?

[taricha]

I did a four day blackout and it didn't touch it.

Are you thinking this is a thin growing sponge?

Yeah, leaning pretty hard toward sponge.

 

[CaptainSupersonic]

I took a couple more photos just now since there was natural light hitting the rock in question. If it is a sponge, how do I remove a thin growing sponge covering the rock and ticking off Zoa's?

@reefcleaners is there a cuc that will eat this stuff?

 

[Miami Reef]

Yeah, leaning pretty hard toward sponge.

Agreed.

I’m not sure what will eat the sponge within those intricate Zoa gaps.

Ensure silica is not making it through the RO/DI. It’s one of the hardest chemicals to remove, and it’s one of the first to pass exhausted DI resins.

Di resins remove it from the RO water, but the DI can’t be exhausted.

 

[CaptainSupersonic]

Agreed.

I’m not sure what will eat the sponge within those intricate Zoa gaps.

Ensure silica is not making it through the RO/DI. It’s one of the hardest chemicals to remove, and it’s one of the first to pass exhausted DI resins.

Di resins remove it from the RO water, but the DI can’t be exhausted.

My RODI unit from BRS is fairly new however I have not tested for silica.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Yeah, as I mentioned in the previous thread, manual removal is typically the best option for sponge removal - it's tough with it growing around the zoas though.

That said, knowing that it came back after you scraped it off once, I expect it will come back again basically no matter how many times you scrape it off until you figure out why it's growing well in your tank or completely eliminate (which you probably won't be able to do through manual removal; you'd probably need some more extreme methods - also, yes this quote is in the block quote below):

Basically, if the sponges have enough food and enough trace elements (which for most sponges includes silicates) to meet their needs, then you’ll see their populations booming.

If you can figure out what’s allowing them to thrive in your tank, then you can deal with that root cause and get rid of them.

For the immediate removal though:

Lots of things will eat sponges, but I don’t know if any of them (that won’t starve like nudibranchs would) are totally reef-safe - almost anything that might eat sponges are a risk to corals too (and, in some cases, inverts as well). Beyond that, not every sponge eating critter will eat every sponge, so there’s no guarantee any critter you get would eat the sponges you want them to.

To quote another of my posts:

Manual removal is almost certainly your best option here (for why, see the first quote below, for manual removal control ideas, see the other two):

Just to put this out there - the problem with using biological controls (i.e. something that eats it) with sponges is that there are a ton of different sponges, some of which look indistinguishable from others. Some of these sponges are inedible or extremely undesirable foods to some species (either because of chemical defenses* or just because of taste preferences) while being highly desirable to other species. So, even if you pull in a known sponge-eating species of fish/starfish/whatever, there's no guarantee it will eat the sponge you want it to eat. Also, many of these sponge-eating species eat other things (like coral) that you might not want them eating.

Long story short, manual removal is probably your best option for sponges until more study has been on both specific sponges and specific sponge-eaters, but you can try it if you want.

*Just as a note on the chemical defenses of sponges, many sponges produce chemicals to avoid being eaten. Some of these chemicals are more generalized, some of them are specifically anti-fish, some are specifically anti-echinoderm (starfish, urchin, etc.), etc. So, again, some things might eat one sponge but not another, and because of the whole indistinguishable thing mentioned above, the sponges that are and are not being eaten may look pretty much identical (some may be distinguished/ID'ed under microscopic investigation, others may need to be DNA tested to be distinguished/ID'ed).

Just my two cents here.

The best way I've heard to control sponge growth at this point is to use a steel straw to scrape and siphon out the sponge you want to remove. Sometimes you can create bad conditions for them and kill them off that way, but that's typically much harder and not always effective.

Some other sponge removal methods:

Other suggestions include exposing the sponge to air (obviously not a guaranteed solution, and definitely not viable for this situation); hydrogen peroxide dipping the sponge (again, not viable here); injecting the sponge with hydrogen peroxide, vinegar, boiling water, or air; microbubbles in the display; and a few more. Predation is not usually a good solution for this issue

Basically, if the sponges have enough food and enough trace elements (which for most sponges includes silicates) to meet their needs, then you’ll see their populations booming.

If you can figure out what’s allowing them to thrive in your tank, then you can deal with that root cause and get rid of them.

All of that said, if you’re really determined to try biological controls (i.e. predation) for your sponges, here are some known sponge eaters you might be able to find in the hobby:

-Angelfish (particularly large angels, from what I’ve seen)

-The pencil urchin Eucidaris tribuloides*

-Starfish (quite a few different species eat sponges, but not all of them do; aside from Aquilonastra starfish - known in the hobby as Asterina starfish - starfish have abysmal survival rates past ~8-13 months, so I’d suggest to avoid these)

-Moorish Idols (these have abysmal survival rates pretty much regardless of how long they’ve been in captivity, so I can’t recommend them either)

-Nudibranchs (they only eat like 1 to 4 specific species of sponge total, and they will not branch out beyond those species - please do not buy these, they will starve)

-Some trunkfish and (typically large) filefish reportedly eat sponges (and inverts)

I’m sure there are some other species I’ve missed (particularly fish species), but that pretty well covers the known sponge eaters.

*Info on the pencil urchin diet:

What is this? Reef safe?

Pls help I’d and lmk if safe or not

www.reef2reef.com

From what I've read, Genicanthus species angels specifically don't eat sponges while others do.

Some people may suggest scrubbing with a soft toothbrush to try and avoid irritating the zoas.

Also, with regards to the zoas:

Yeah, if you do scrub it off in a bowl of tank water, since it's growing on palys, you may want to run carbon in the bowl to absorb any toxins.

 

[CaptainSupersonic]

Yeah, as I mentioned in the previous thread, manual removal is typically the best option for sponge removal - it's tough with it growing around the zoas though.

That said, knowing that it came back after you scraped it off once, I expect it will come back again basically no matter how many times you scrape it off until you figure out why it's growing well in your tank or completely eliminate (which you probably won't be able to do through manual removal; you'd probably need some more extreme methods - also, yes this quote is in the block quote below):


For the immediate removal though:


Some people may suggest scrubbing with a soft toothbrush to try and avoid irritating the zoas.

Also, with regards to the zoas:

A lot of good info thank you.

I am thinking this may be the procedure to correct this.

1. Test for silicates. If high get something to remove silicates.
2. Find something that can eat the sponge. If I can't then 3.
3. Remove rock, remove Zoa's/Paly's being covered by sponge. Then, manually remove sponge. Set aside removed Zoa's/Paly's until sponge problem resolved on Zoa/Paly rock.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I took a couple more photos just now since there was natural light hitting the rock in question. If it is a sponge, how do I remove a thin growing sponge covering the rock and ticking off Zoa's?

@reefcleaners is there a cuc that will eat this stuff?

I'd recommend finding someone other than RC for your cuc.

 

[Miami Reef]

I wouldn’t bother testing or adding media to remove silica.

Silica is rapidly depleted in saltwater tanks, mainly from diatoms. Silica should go near 0 within a week as long as you don’t add more (from exhausted Di)

Number 2 and 3 sound like good plans.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

A lot of good info thank you.

I am thinking this may be the procedure to correct this.

1. Test for silicates. If high get something to remove silicates.
2. Find something that can eat the sponge. If I can't then 3.
3. Remove rock, remove Zoa's/Paly's being covered by sponge. Then, manually remove sponge. Set aside removed Zoa's/Paly's until sponge problem resolved on Zoa/Paly rock.

Sounds like a good plan. You can even glue the zoas to a new rock, if it's really only one rock being affected... and toss the sponge rock in the sump.

 

[CaptainSupersonic]

I'd recommend finding someone other than RC for your cuc.

Why do you recommend for a cuc pack?

 

[CaptainSupersonic]

I wouldn’t bother testing or adding media to remove silica.

Silica is rapidly depleted in saltwater tanks, mainly from diatoms. Silica should go near 0 within a week as long as you don’t add more (from exhausted Di)

Number 2 and 3 sound like good plans.

My guess it the silica is really low. The organic thing on the rock has been there for a number of month. I think it will take a lot of physical removal and addition of cuc that may eat it.

 

[CaptainSupersonic]

Sounds like a good plan. You can even glue the zoas to a new rock, if it's really only one rock being affected... and toss the sponge rock in the sump.

Thank you. The other half of the rock not in the photos has larger colonies grown into the rock. It's have to cut the colonies and start over. I like the rock, I am going to try to irradicate before giving up and replacing it.

 

[CaptainSupersonic]

I have a new plan. I am going to remove the rock. Remove the Zoa's/Paly's the best I can. I can get most of them removed which will be good to start anew. Boil the rock to kill off the sponge. Return, add back the coral. DONE. Get to the root of the issue.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I have a new plan. I am going to remove the rock. Remove the Zoa's/Paly's the best I can. I can get most of them removed which will be good to start anew. Boil the rock to kill off the sponge. Return, add back the coral. DONE. Get to the root of the issue.

I wouldn't recommend boiling live rock (especially not one that has had sponges or zoas on it):

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Instead:

Please don't boil any rocks or other things you pull out of your tank - you don't want to aerosolize something dangerous (like palytoxin).

If you want to get rid of whatever is in/on the rock, then you can do things like bleach the rock, soak in hypersaline water, etc.

 

[CaptainSupersonic]

Instead:

what if it is done outside?

What are the options for "bleach the rock, soak in hypersaline water"

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yeah, leaning pretty hard toward sponge.

With pics - agree on sponge

 

[vetteguy53081]

I took a couple more photos just now since there was natural light hitting the rock in question. If it is a sponge, how do I remove a thin growing sponge covering the rock and ticking off Zoa's?

@reefcleaners is there a cuc that will eat this stuff?

Exposure to air or injecting with vinegar (sparingly) will stop this in its tracks

 

[CaptainSupersonic]

Exposure to air or injecting with vinegar (sparingly) will stop this in its tracks

Will vinegar kill off zoa's/paly's? Vinegar seems like a good option especially if I can apply the vinegar around the corals. Perhaps with q-tips around the corals and a syringe on open areas?

What kind of vinegar?

If I go this route the rock will be out of water, in a pot or bucket.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Will vinegar kill off zoa's/paly's? Vinegar seems like a good option especially if I can apply the vinegar around the corals. Perhaps with q-tips around the corals and a syringe on open areas?

What kind of vinegar?

Regular store vinegar and you dont want to broadcast but inject into the sponge. I had to do this about 4 months ago and sponge is gone. using sparingly has same effect as vinegar dosing