Chloroquine phosphate

[Humblefish]

Is this the proper dosing?

For the 99% pure powder, the dosage is 40mg/gal. However, if using the tablets you have to dose according to the usable "chloroquine base" (see below).

In most cases, 250 mg tablets have an equivalence of 150 mg chloroquine base, and 500 mg tablets have an equivalence of 300 mg chloroquine base. Although the purity mentioned above is generally accurate, it would be best to verify the chloroquine base contained in the tablets of your choice in order to be able to properly calculate the exact dosage. Keep in mind if you decide to use the tablets, there are some inactive ingredients, which you may have to deal with, e.g., Camauba Wax, Colloidal Silicon Dioxide, Dibasic Calcium Phosphate, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Polyethylene Glycol, Polysorbate 80, Pregelatinized Starch, Sodium Starch Glycolate, Stearic Acid, and Titanium Dioxide. And as mentioned earlier in this chapter there are occasions where some medicines are not in their pure form (100% pure), i.e., mixed with a substance called a 'carrier,' which should be noted on its label. If so its potency is reduced, and if not sure about the exact amount of medication needed, suggest contacting a more experienced aquarist for the way to resolve this situation.

 

[TheRealDmorty217]

For the 99% pure powder, the dosage is 40mg/gal. However, if using the tablets you have to dose according to the usable "chloroquine base" (see below).

A few of the disease books I have recommend 15 mg/L or 60mg/ Gallon for a active infection in fish and 20mg/L for velvet. It's recommended to use 10mg/L for fish not showing a active infection. I guess my question is why do the directions on the bottle of NLS ick shield powder say .6g for 20g? I have been having more failures with CP since measuring it out like they suggest. 3 days ago I dosed the 60mg/ Gallon and noticed my fish acting relieved almost immediately and also clouding in one of the two bannerfish eyes has went away. Silly me for thinking the directions on the bottle would be accurate

 

[Humblefish]

A few of the disease books I have recommend 15 mg/L or 60mg/ Gallon for a active infection in fish and 20mg/L for velvet. It's recommended to use 10mg/L for fish not showing a active infection. I guess my question is why do the directions on the bottle of NLS ick shield powder say .6g for 20g? I have been having more failures with CP since measuring it out like they suggest. 3 days ago I dosed the 60mg/ Gallon and noticed my fish acting relieved almost immediately and also clouding in one of the two bannerfish eyes has went away. Silly me for thinking the directions on the bottle would be accurate

I have dosed up to 60mg/gal for active infections of velvet; but I've stopped going above that because certain fish seem to develop "copper-like" side effects (lethargy, reduced appetite). The 60mg/gal for velvet is only because I think it's possible CP (a strong algaecide) may be effective against more than just the dinospore stage of velvet (being it's a dinoflagellate). That's just my little "pet theory" though, with no evidence to back it up.

 

[TheRealDmorty217]

I have been treating some fish in QT now for going on 6 weeks and everytime I take them out of CP the ick returns. (Bare bottom tank, with very little rock and some PVC.) I'm going to treat them at 60mg/gallon and see if this will do the trick. If not I believe either the ick has built a resistance to it somehow or something else is going on. Meds are bought new every 2 months and prior to this I have used CP countless times with great success

 

[MCooper]

I cannot find any pharmacy that makes the powder!

 

[MCooper]

I can get the 250 mg tablets, but how do you actually mix and apply this into a QT tank?

 

[MCooper]

Never mind, found it!

 

[TheRealDmorty217]

I cannot find any pharmacy that makes the powder!

Ick shield powder is made by new life spectrum, you can also have your vet write a prescription for you to get from the local pharmacy. It will be more expensive this way as opposed to the ick shield powder

 

[omykiss001]

Below is a pic of my 29 gal "fishless" frag tank. I place all corals/inverts in here for 76 days before they go into my DT. Just cheap T5 lighting, Koralia powerhead, HOB powerfilter, heater, rock/sand and a frag rack gets the job done. Yes, I've had conversations with the owner about his CP. He confirmed to me it is sourced from China, but also mentioned the Certificate of Analysis. However, the skeptic in me says the Certificate of Analysis could be for the first batch of CP they sent him while subsequent shipments may have been watered down. It doesn't make any sense for him to be able to sell it for 18 cents/gram when the going rate is $5-6/gram (due to a shortage). I also have more faith in the purity of CP bought from an American, Canadian or European pharmacy ... as that CP is meant for human consumption (to treat malaria) and thus, there would be severe criminal and civil penalties for watering down that stuff.

The one thing you might ask for is a lot analysis which is what my company basically does for any lot of material we make which is what our certificate of analysis is based upon. If you can get one for the specific lot it should mitigate fears about purity etc. assuming the US vendor is acting ethical is not diluting etc.

The other thing to consider and humble hit it on the head is the CP he gets is approved for human and vet usage, it does not mean it's really any better than RUO (Research Use Only) material same chemical same basic analytical methods used manufacture and to determine purity, just more documentation required and assumed liability for damage on the vendor and that will fetch a premium when you got through the clinical use regulated market. So in practicality the chemical is probably pretty cheap to make and 18 cents/gram for a material that has been around as long as this stuff is probably pretty correct from a foreign vendor, and $5-6/gram with a clinical shortage of the medication is also pretty accurate. It's really about labeled usage and comfort using on your fish if if has not gone through the additional regulatory hoops that drugs meant for consumption are required to do.

I use antibiotics in my research all the time to assure DNA we are working with is in the bacteria, basically if it grows on media with the drug we are pretty certain our DNA of interest is there too. However, we buy the RUO version of the antibiotic which is as pure as the stuff you get from a doc, just without the additional paperwork etc. We pay much less for this than the stuff in a vial ready for injection to a human.

 

[MCooper]

I have a inexpensive all in one hood for my QT tank that has a flourescent light fixture. Is this safe when using CP?

 

[TheRealDmorty217]

I have a inexpensive all in one hood for my QT tank that has a flourescent light fixture. Is this safe when using CP?

It sould be fine. UV light is what you're worried about, I don't know how much or little is in a flourescent bulb

 

[Humblefish]

It sould be fine. UV light is what you're worried about, I don't know how much or little is in a flourescent bulb

+1 @Reef Fever has indicated they use MH lighting when treating with CP and no degradation occurs (tested daily using a Hach DR5000). I need to change the thing about running lights with CP in the sticky.

 

[TheRealDmorty217]

+1 @Reef Fever has indicated they use MH lighting when treating with CP and no degradation occurs (tested daily using a Hach DR5000). I need to change the thing about running lights with CP in the sticky.

Really? This is great news, I find that the low lighting situation is the biggest drawback to using CP. Makes it extremely difficult to properly observe the fish being treated.

 

[blitz49]

@Humblefish would you recommend dosing increments so that the fish gets use to CP?

Ex:
Day 1 - 10mg/gal
Day 2 - 10mg/gal
Day 3 - 10mg/gal
Day 4 - 10mg/gal
Total = 40mg/gal

 

[Humblefish]

Really? This is great news, I find that the low lighting situation is the biggest drawback to using CP. Makes it extremely difficult to properly observe the fish being treated.

Below is his post (he works for a public aquarium):

Absolutely! I'll offer up whatever I can!

First off, we use it essentially as a preventative QT protocol for all new fish. So in essence its to prevent all of which you have listed in your original post. Most commonly though could be crypt if you wanted me to be specific.

As far as degradation, we haven't done much testing in that department. We typically do a 30 day treatment. After those 30 days we use carbon and/or water changes to rid the system of CP. None of our QT systems are running UV so I can't offer much help in that aspect unfortunately. I have also heard the possibility that it is light sensitive but we do run lights on each of the systems. the 240 gallon systems run low wattage t5, and our 750's run 400W metal halides with PC bulbs. While running the lights we notice no significant change in the CP levels.


Now for my personal feelings on CP...I think it is an awesome drug. It is surely effective..however, some fish are too intolerant of it so to me it is similar to copper in a way. Smaller reef fish (anthias, basslets, butterflies, etc.) I have had do great for the initial week to two weeks, look totally fine and eating one day, and dead the next. Our protocol suggests the minimum concentration necessary to be effective is 10parts. But I would like to experiment with a lower dosage for more sensitive species to see if it would yield a higher survivability.

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish would you recommend dosing increments so that the fish gets use to CP?

Ex:
Day 1 - 10mg/gal
Day 2 - 10mg/gal
Day 3 - 10mg/gal
Day 4 - 10mg/gal
Total = 40mg/gal

No reason why you couldn't ramp it up slowly like that. Except when dealing with velvet, brook or uronema; all 3 are quick killers that require immediate therapeutic dosages.

 

[billw]

It seems like 10 to 14 days under treatment and then transfer to an observation tank may be the best strategy ( assuming you have room for another tank ).

 

[blitz49]

No reason why you couldn't ramp it up slowly like that. Except when dealing with velvet, brook or uronema; all 3 are quick killers that require immediate therapeutic dosages.

Cool thanks. I have wrasses, so want to see how they respond with lower initial dosage.

 

[TheRealDmorty217]

Humble, I remember reading reports of you and others not having much if any luck with hippos and CP, is this correct? Jordan @amongthereef has some Mauritius yellow belly hippos and I was planning on getting one sent with the Gem I am getting from him but the Gem is going straight into CP in the 40g breeder I have setup. I have coppersafe also but literally have NEVER used it and always use CP/prazipro to treat all new fish. (Some get NFG in the tank for the first few days after arrival too) can you confirm or deny that you have had any luck or not with CP and hippos or what you think the best course of action would be? I have 2-20g longs with appropriate equipment for TTM if need be but would prefer to not have to setup and break down tanks every 70 hrs. Thank you in advance!

 

[Humblefish]

@TheRealDmorty217 I've tried CP on 3 different Hippos now (at different times) and they all died. Same MO: They refuse to eat, hide and then die after about a week. Same thing that has happened with all Sixline and Melanurus wrasses I've tried CP on (but flasher/fairy do fine.) I can't explain it, as all other tangs I've used CP on seem do well in it. Of course, Hippos are their own unique genus of tang so that's how I rationalize it. Similarly, I suspect (but cannot confirm) that all Halichoeres & Pseudocheilinus genus of wrasses would not do well in CP.

If I were in your shoes and TTM is not an option, I would treat the Hippo with Coppersafe. They are generally pretty hardy, and I've not had any issues running Hippos through copper in the past.