Chloroquine phosphate

dangros · Apr 5, 2016

thx HF!

dangros · Apr 8, 2016

looks like I was a bit premature in calling mr hippo tang healthy. I came home today for lunch and I see it laying in the corner on the gravel. It's alive but it doesnt look good. I dont get it! I cant keep tangs and I dont know why

Humblefish · Apr 8, 2016

dangros said:
looks like I was a bit premature in calling mr hippo tang healthy. I came home today for lunch and I see it laying in the corner on the gravel. It's alive but it doesnt look good. I dont get it! I cant keep tangs and I dont know why

I'd get it out of CP ASAP. Guy I know has lost three Yellow Bellies to CP. There's something about CP Paracanthurus genus tangs can't tolerate.

dangros · Apr 8, 2016

it's been out for a long time. It's in the DT

dangros · Apr 8, 2016

He's a gonner

Think I'll get a uv sterilizer. Either I have terrible luck, bluezoo gives me bad fish, or something toxic haunts my tank. @Humblefish , I know you think they are superfluous but nit much else makes sense. The clown and fire fish continue to thrive, tangs and angels just lose it

Humblefish · Apr 8, 2016

@dangros What other tangs have you lost? Did you lose them in the QT or DT? Tangs are not as disease resistant as a clownfish and firefish would be, so is it possible you have some parasite (like ich) lurking in your DT? In which case, no amount of QT is going to be sufficient once the fish enters the DT.

Reefahholic · Apr 8, 2016

Be interesting to get it pure in the states without a prescription.

dangros · Apr 11, 2016

I lost my yellow and all clowns when introducing the kole tang with I hush symptoms months back. That's when I went fallow. After that, restocked successfully with a clown, baby eel, bicolor blenny. The blenny went carpet surfing so I built a mesh top. I then tried this recent batch of hippo, flame angel, kole, and bicolor blenny.
They where too large a batch for my qt so I took a shot. They were from bluezoo so I hoped they would at least be somewhat safe. All 4 additions from bluezoo perished. The oscellaris, firefish, eel, and shrimp live happily. I could go fallow again but catching the eel and firefish would be nearly impossible.

Humblefish said:
@dangros What other tangs have you lost? Did you lose them in the QT or DT? Tangs are not as disease resistant as a clownfish and firefish would be, so is it possible you have some parasite (like ich) lurking in your DT? In which case, no amount of QT is going to be sufficient once the fish enters the DT.

billw · Apr 27, 2016

@Humblefish

Regarding the Florida bulk sellers that have been mentioned earlier as being used by public aquariums. Have any of the aquarium curators commented on the purity of the chloroquine they bought there, or if they have even checked? I would think they would send off samples to a lab to test.

Humblefish · Apr 27, 2016

billw said:
@Humblefish

Regarding the Florida bulk sellers that have been mentioned earlier as being used by public aquariums. Have any of the aquarium curators commented on the purity of the chloroquine they bought there, or if they have even checked? I would think they would send off samples to a lab to test.

I believe @Reef Fever has stated the public aquarium he works for buys their CP from Fishman Chemical. And they test the CP in the water after it has been dosed. I would be interested to know if what they test matches the mg/gal they originally dosed, and how much the CP has degraded after, say, one month.

I have spoken with the owner of this company and he claims to have a Certificate of Analysis for his CP: http://fishremedies.com/chloroquinephosphate.aspx

However, the cynic in me says one Certificate of Analysis for one batch of CP doesn't prove all your stock is legit. And getting one batch of CP tested for purity can cost $300-400.

Reef Fever · Apr 28, 2016

Typically when we dose the mg/gal dosage is pretty spot on...with that being said, our last run of CP treatment we seem to have developed bacteria in a few of the systems that have been feeding off the CP. So we are now bleaching the entire systems.

nanomania · Apr 28, 2016

Hey, i came across 250mg cp tabs.. here is what it has:

Chloroquine Phosphate IP 250mg
(Equivalent to 155mg chloroquine base)
Colour: Titanium Dioxide IP.

Its round white tablet.. i guess this will be the best way to dose, jus that ill have to crush before using.

mfinn · Apr 28, 2016

@Humblefish
Did I read somewhere that CP loses it's effectiveness after a few days?

Humblefish · Apr 28, 2016

Reef Fever said:
Typically when we dose the mg/gal dosage is pretty spot on...with that being said, our last run of CP treatment we seem to have developed bacteria in a few of the systems that have been feeding off the CP. So we are now bleaching the entire systems.

What type of bacteria? Nitrifying? Aerobic/anaerobic?

nanomania said:
Chloroquine Phosphate IP 250mg
(Equivalent to 155mg chloroquine base)

Just be sure to modify the dosage to reflect the usable chloroquine base. The other 95mg in the tablet is either just a filler and/or the binder.

mfinn said:
@Humblefish
Did I read somewhere that CP loses it's effectiveness after a few days?

See below:

Humblefish said:
So, I've been doing research regarding the half-life of CP. I was told it lasts for "months and months", but without anything substantial to back it up... well, let's just say that didn't sit well with me. :roll:

I can't find anything which discusses the half-life of CP in water. However, being CP is originally a malaria drug I did find this:

Source: Molina DK (2011) Postmortem hydroxychloroquine concentrations in nontoxic cases. Am J Forensic Med Pathol

So, if I run with that and use the "worst case scenario"; it means a 40mg/gal dosage could be down to 20mg/gal in 32 days. Or it degrades 0.625mg/gal per day after the initial dosage. A 60mg/gal dosage could be down to 30mg/gal in 32 days; or it degrades 0.9375mg/gal per day after the initial.

The minimum therapeutic dosage for CP is considered to be 40mg/gal; however many say it is still effective even at far lower concentrations. This is confirmed by own personal anecdotal experiences. I've treated countless fish for ich at the 40mg/gal dosage over the past 5 years and have never seen ich return after 30 days of treatment.

However, in light of this new information you would need to dose at 80mg/gal if you wished the concentration to remain above 40mg/gal after 30 days. I know plenty of people who have dosed at 80mg/gal and saw no ill effects on the fish; however I also know at least one who claims higher concentrations of CP have proven harsh.

I personally do not plan to make any changes with my 30 day treatment - initial dosage will remain 40mg/gal, one & done. However, moving forward I will be ramping up the dosage on my "10 day experiment" to 60mg/gal. That way CP will remain above therapeutic when I dose for 10 days (50.625), or even if I decide to try 14 days (46.875).

nanomania · Apr 28, 2016

Humblefish said:
What type of bacteria? Nitrifying? Aerobic/anaerobic?

Just be sure to modify the dosage to reflect the usable chloroquine base. The other 95mg in the tablet is either just a filler and/or the binder.

See below:

What about titanium dioxide? This is what i came across researching about it..Titanium dioxide nanoparticles enhance mortality of fish exposed to bacterial pathogens.

/Further details:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S026974911500192X

Humblefish · Apr 28, 2016

nanomania said:
What about titanium dioxide?

I have no experience with that. Sorry.

arvind · Apr 28, 2016

Anyone has any experience with Dr. G's Anti-Parasitic Caviar which contains CP?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=28131

Currently my fish are in QT being treated for Velvet. I purchased this above stuff when I thought the fish has ich. Should I continue to feed the fish with this while they are in QT?

I am following @Humblefish regimen for treating velvet.

mfinn · Apr 28, 2016

Thank-you again @Humblefish
For some reason I got it into my head that I had read something that said it was ineffective much sooner.

I currently have 5 Lyretails doing pretty good at day 9.
After CP, I'm planning on doing a round of Prazipro.

Reef Fever · Apr 28, 2016

Humblefish said:
What type of bacteria? Nitrifying? Aerobic/anaerobic?

My guess would be some strain of heterotrophic bacteria. I can't remember where I saw the literature..but it essentially said consistent use of the same drug can result in the bacterial strain developing the ability to consume the medication. I believe Prazi was mentioned specifically as well.

Humblefish · Apr 28, 2016

Reef Fever said:
My guess would be some strain of heterotrophic bacteria. I can't remember where I saw the literature..but it essentially said consistent use of the same drug can result in the bacterial strain developing the ability to consume the medication. I believe Prazi was mentioned specifically as well.

Wouldn't running a UV eliminate heterotrophic bacteria in your QTs? Of course, it would also remove the CP but should leave the bio-filter intact. Perhaps something to do in-between batches of fish. Otherwise, I'm assuming the only way to counteract this problem is to break down the QT after CP treatment or in your case with a large QT, sterilize it with bleach.