ChemiClean

[twilliard]

You all have had great input and I thank you for that.
Jeff...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria

The more a person can understand what it is and how it lives the better the approach will be.
This will not go away in 1 or 2 treatments
Does lighting have an effect? Yes
Is it your particular lights? No
This is a bacteria. Smaller doses more frequent will help combat this.
The question of the day..

What does it take for this bacteria to live?

 

[Esage]

Tell us about your lighting. When I went to straight blues on my led I had no cyano. At 20% whites it was back. Strange thing is I've run these lights before and no issues on prior tank's. My current is pretty strong so I doubt that's it. In the past I've removed reds and greens so maybe it a spectrum thing. I'll try to get some cool whites and swap.

This is the same results I had with a ocean revive ti2080. I came across some other threads where people had the same issue and thought it was due to the spectrum.

 

[twilliard]

Its Orphek

Its not the lighting

 

[Esage]

Its Orphek

Its not the lighting

Doesn't matter what brand it is if the spectrum is off

 

[CastAway]

Do you make your own or get it from one of the local stores.. I Remember someone saying one of the two in knoxville does not run di resin someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I make my own, RO/DI, and have recently replaced the canisters, but not the membrane. Trust my RODI more than I do my spectrum and nutrients at this point.

 

[CastAway]

Chemiclean works great if you can get enough oxygen into your tank. I put circulation pumps at the water surface so that they basically suck in a lot of air and bubbles all throughout the tank for 24 hours. The tank will be filled with micro bubbles. cyano is usually gone next day and do a large water change. Only downfall is its very loud to listen to the pumps bubbling in the tank.

I changed from three hours of 100% on all channels to 5 hours of 100% on all channels. I also ramped them a little faster. So, I don't have a lot of that predominate blue that I see so often in other systems. My tank is blue very late in the evening only, for me mostly, not my corals.

Any thoughts or comment @CoralIN? Could I be causing this cyano issue driving my Atlantiks too hard? Is that possible?

 

[CastAway]

Doesn't matter what brand it is if the spectrum is off

I think spectrum range is definitely brand unique, and that his point was that the Orpheks have a comparably wide range of spectrum and color. Not saying I'm using them correctly though.

 

[PSXerholic]

Gents,
A word of awareness, and help.
This stuff is known to kill SPS and has shown long term effects in many cases on sensible tank systems.

My recommendation is not to use it.
Anyways, the reason why the cyanos are taking over again is that the chemiclean will kill all kind of bacteria first including cyanos. You get the same effect by using hydrogen peroxide but not that extremely.

So, then in the tank the bacteria population will grow again due to the carbon dosing by the bio pellets.
Problem is the seeding bacteria are unbalanced in a way that cyanos are populating much faster than all the good bacteria strains, resulting in a situation that the cyano will compete out all the others.
To avoid this scenario you have to seed the tank with for example biodigest with an initial double dose of bacteria and then with a normal weekly dose.
You will see that those good bacteria strains will compete out the cyanos. Usually this takes like 4-12 weeks in most systems we have done that. The tank will show a lil cyanos for a while in low flow corners and dirty areas, but then they will get weaker and weaker and disappear if that's done correctly. Make sure the bio pellets are kept in good condition and do not overdose the pellets.

Hope this simple fact makes sense and good luck!!!

 

[CastAway]

Welcome to R2R @PSXerholic.

 

[PSXerholic]

Welcome to R2R @PSXerholic.

Thx a lot for the warm welcome!!!!

Diesel convinced me finally to join the R2R forum, lol.

 

[PSXerholic]

Gents,
A word of awareness, and help.
This stuff is known to kill SPS and has shown long term effects in many cases on sensible tank systems.

My recommendation is not to use it.
Anyways, the reason why the cyanos are taking over again is that the chemiclean will kill all kind of bacteria first including cyanos. You get the same effect by using hydrogen peroxide but not that extremely.

So, then in the tank the bacteria population will grow again due to the carbon dosing by the bio pellets.
Problem is the seeding bacteria are unbalanced in a way that cyanos are populating much faster than all the good bacteria strains, resulting in a situation that the cyano will compete out all the others.
To avoid this scenario you have to seed the tank with for example biodigest with an initial double dose of bacteria and then with a normal weekly dose.
You will see that those good bacteria strains will compete out the cyanos. Usually this takes like 4-12 weeks in most systems we have done that. The tank will show a lil cyanos for a while in low flow corners and dirty areas, but then they will get weaker and weaker and disappear if that's done correctly. Make sure the bio pellets are kept in good condition and do not overdose the pellets.

Hope this simple fact makes sense and good luck!!!

Ohhhh, btw, people intend to overuse GFO after this shock, thinking doing something good to prevent the next cyano outbreak.

Well, while the good bacteria population is trying to grow and compete out the cyanos, overusing GFO will result in too low Po4 which is food for the new bacteria population which will starve or not populate fast enough to compete out the cyanos. Po4 should be kept low, but not too low. I can recommend to monitor phosphates in the ultra low range (e.g Hanna Checker ULR) and maintain a low and healthy PO4 level. This will keep corals and bacteria healthy and vibrant.

Remember, you won't limit the good bacterial growth during that phase. Cyano can live and survive easily (even in outer space) with no phosphates, good bacteria not! Anyways, good bacteria will consume all the other good stuff, so Cyanos won't make it.

 

[paraletho]

Castaway I have used ChemiClean in the past and with no ill effects. I now lean more toward H2o2 when I need a little something. As with anything in our tanks be prepared with backup plans for worst case scenario. Water changes, polypads, etc. I think they call for a 20% change after the treatment. I usually do 2.

Welcome PSXerholic. This is a really nice place. See you at Reef Currents? I want some of those $10 frags.

 

[rock_lobster]

Lighting is not the issue its nutrients and low flow/low oxygen(a reducing environment). I run 6500k lighting over my reef tank and I have no cyano anywhere for 2 years now. All you need to do is increase flow and surface agitation. make sure there are no dead spots(accumulating matter) and it will die off. Also, this is assuming your nutrients arent out of control. If they are add a little carbon to decrease your organic load. If you follow those tips I guarantee your cyano will die off naturally. You dont even need chemiclean if you have adequate flow and lower nutrients it will die off pretty rapidly. Check your pH also it should be around 8.2.

 

[CastAway]

So let me see if I get this...

Carbon is to bacteria what light is to algae, a power source essentially enabling it to consume NO3 and PO4; i.e., carbon powers cyano as well as other more desirable bacteria.

So, in response to the cyano I stopped dosing vodka.

Now, @PSXerholic 's suggestion is that I supplement the desirable bacteria so as to out compete the cyano, and, resume dosing a carbon being careful not to over export PO4 so as to sustain the beneficial bacteria. Am I reading this correctly?

 

[cee]

Now, @PSXerholic 's suggestion is that I supplement the desirable bacteria so as to out compete the cyano, and, resume dosing a carbon being careful not to over export PO4 so as to sustain the beneficial bacteria. Am I reading this correctly?

...the concept behind CyanoClean...

 

[CastAway]

...the concept behind CyanoClean...

Ah ha!

 

[rock_lobster]

I was referring to activated carbon. If you have a high organic load.

So let me see if I get this...

Carbon is to bacteria what light is to algae, a power source essentially enabling it to consume NO3 and PO4; i.e., carbon powers cyano as well as other more desirable bacteria.

So, in response to the cyano I stopped dosing vodka.

Now, @PSXerholic 's suggestion is that I supplement the desirable bacteria so as to out compete the cyano, and, resume dosing a carbon being careful not to over export PO4 so as to sustain the beneficial bacteria. Am I reading this correctly?

 

[PSXerholic]

So let me see if I get this...

Carbon is to bacteria what light is to algae, a power source essentially enabling it to consume NO3 and PO4; i.e., carbon powers cyano as well as other more desirable bacteria.

So, in response to the cyano I stopped dosing vodka.

Now, @PSXerholic 's suggestion is that I supplement the desirable bacteria so as to out compete the cyano, and, resume dosing a carbon being careful not to over export PO4 so as to sustain the beneficial bacteria. Am I reading this correctly?

Generally you did understand what I was trying to explain, correct.
I see a lot of people overusing GFO after the treatment.

In case you do bio pellets there is not much choice, but in case of Vodtka or VSV, go back to a lower dose to maintain some nitrates, assuming the po4 is still slightly present when nitrates are not detectable, then it is normally ok to measure nitrates every few days. I strongly believe dialing in vodka after this treatment can make you very busy.

Let me know if there is something else, that makes you thinking

Regarding biodigest, I just mention that always since I used that product very successful and do not want to risk anything on my system, so bare with me, it seems the Zeo bacteria or other brands seem to do the same job, from what I hear, as long they have multiple bacteria strains in it.

 

[PSXerholic]

Castaway I have used ChemiClean in the past and with no ill effects. I now lean more toward H2o2 when I need a little something. As with anything in our tanks be prepared with backup plans for worst case scenario. Water changes, polypads, etc. I think they call for a 20% change after the treatment. I usually do 2.

Welcome PSXerholic. This is a really nice place. See you at Reef Currents? I want some of those $10 frags.

Thx a lot, yes very busy forum here, so far great!!!

Concerning the frags, lol, didn't expect to get asked for that already.
Since I'm a hobbyist only, I won't be at reef currents, sorry.
But you know where to find me, anytime bud!

Working at the minute on a thread to present my tank and system, and methods I applied, here on R2R, will see where this is leading into. Stay tuned, will come out soon.

After that I might post here and there a frag pack, to keep the colonies in shape. Planning to prep the tank for some photo contests and currently boosting the corals with 18/6 light cycle and plenty of acropower.

 

[CoralIN]

Cyanobacteria is one of the most prolific forms of life in the world and the only true way to combat it is through out competing it. It can grow in almost any environment and under almost any light. There is no hobby light that can be considered anti-cyano.

Key factors in reduction are:

• increased flow
• decreased nutrients
• removal of any visible signs as soon as possible

I don't know how long your tank has been established but it sounds as if you are doing some dosing of different components for various reasons. It becomes increasingly difficult to make a recommendation without the interactions being considered.

IME staying on top of water changes, keeping flow high, reducing feedings and vacuuming out the cyano will stabilize the tank over a few weeks. All to often we are looking for FAST results.

I've also become a believer in Lanthanum Chloride as a method of reducing PO4. It's highly effective but must be utilized carefully to avoid any issue. dosing levels are relatively low.

Example:
I just set up a new DT at the house. I'm using new Marco Rock that was dry. It's known to leach PO4 for a while. New tanks are also known to be PO4 factories until all of the bacteria get into place and at levels that are needed maintain balance. I am NOT big on dosing stuff or on additives and believe that time is the best cure for a new tank......
2 days ago my PO4 was 0.31ppm
I setup an LaCl drip into my filtersock compartment. I used a 3ml per liter mix and dripped it over the course of about 24 hours. The next day the PO4 registered 17 on my Hanna ULR which is a level 0.05ppm. Still a bit high but not out of the ball park. I am positive that the PO4 will be back up in a few days but I will likely knock it down again. Eventually the tank will mature and this will not be an issue.