Cause of Death Determination

[Lostoften]

Sadly, trying to determine the cause of death on a white tail bristle tooth. The fish seemed normal yesterday, but acted odd during my water change and vanished into rock work.

Wondering if this is velvet, and I need to pull and treat the other fish.

The tank is newer (< 6 months), Redsea 625 running their skimmer and Reefmat 1200. The tank was experiencing hair algae and trying to remove excess after the brown algae bloom a few weeks ago. To remove algae and reduce NO3 I was doing a larger 25 gallon water change, typically perform weekly 15 gallon changes.

All fish come from the same LFS that dips in hydropex upon arrival, and then I use hydropex prior to adding to display.

Water Parameters:

From Apex:
SG: 1.025
Temp: 79-82
PH: 7.76-7.95
ORP: 192-272
NO3: 21.6 (had been 25)
PO4: 0.07 (this morning had been 0.24)
Alk: 6.76 (average)
CA: 482 (average)
Mg: 1420 (average)

Recent Changes: Reduced feeding as nitrates/PO4 were remaining high, added 2 bags of chemi pure blue (75 gal size) and carbon under Reefmat to help bring down NO3/PO4. Added Vita chem and selcon to food starting last week. Selcon yesterday for first feeding.

Currently feed/day: 1-2 sheets of Julian Sea Veggies, 1-2 cubes of PE mysis, cube size reef frenzy, 1 tsp of artic pods and roe each divided feedings

Current Fish: 2 clowns, Gem Tang, Purple Tang, Tomini Tang, Moyers leopard wrasse, exquisite Fairy wrasse, diamond watchman goby, golden rhomboid wrasse, bi-color foxface, yellow crysus wrasse

Sadly, was more concerned about the hair algae then the fish struggling right in front of me. The gem, purple, bristle tooth and tomini were all added on 8/9.

Other fish deaths, and suspected cause:

Scotts Greenback Fairy Wrasse	Stuck in rock /Aggression?
Radiant Wrasse	Jumped Before Lid
Bimaculatus Anthias Female	Pop-Eye / Unknown
Tierrra Anthias Female	Within 24 hours of adding tangs / Aggression
Leopard Wrasse	Unknown - First death in tank
Helfrichs Firefish	Within 24 hours of adding tangs / Starvation

Any insights or guidance greatly appreciated.

 

[Lostoften]

Picture of the gem tang, which also seems to have more “stripping” then it had at the fish store.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Picture of the gem tang, which also seems to have more “stripping” then it had at the fish store.

This was the first I saw a ring video version and shimmer made it hard to see body but the bristletooth appeared to be a little thin. The gem has what we refer to as thumbprint on body which is often bacterial and will warrant treatment in a separate tank. You can treat in-tank with ruby rally pro which takes longer but Seachem Kanaplex in a separate tank will be more effective.
I find Hydroplex to be an ok dip but ineffective for treatment and will detail more below.

Do I see cloudy eye on gem or dots on the eye?

While likely not a cause, some tweaks that can be made:

Temp: 79-82 - 77-79
PH: 7.76-7.95 - 8.0 -8.2
NO3: 21.6 (had been 25) - 15-20
PO4: 0.07 (this morning had been 0.24) .06 - .1
Alk: 6.76 - 8 -10

 

[Lostoften]

The gem's eye does look cloudy, will look closer at both tomorrow.

 

[Lostoften]

Also, this is a picture of the deceased Anthia, 2nd last fish to die. It died the same day as the firefish (both the day after adding tangs). The firefish died that day as well, but it was extremely thin.


Also, not sure if this is typical swimming behavior for the fairy wrasse but he’s been doing this off and on.

 

[MnFish1]

Also, this is a picture of the deceased Anthia, 2nd last fish to die. It died the same day as the firefish (both the day after adding tangs). The firefish died that day as well, but it was extremely thin.


Also, not sure if this is typical swimming behavior for the fairy wrasse but he’s been doing this off and on.

The fish looks thin and somewhat ragged - has it been treated with anything (i.e QT)? I cannot see the movie unfort

 

[Lostoften]

The fish has not been treated with anything other than the hydropex prior to going in the display tank. The Anthia looked pretty healthy until it didn’t. It was chased by the other larger Anthia that developed pop eye and died a few weeks prior.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The fish has not been treated with anything other than the hydropex prior to going in the display tank. The Anthia looked pretty healthy until it didn’t. It was chased by the other larger Anthia that developed pop eye and died a few weeks prior.

Determining fish loss afterwards is always very difficult.

The bristle tooth in the video is breathing hard/fast and is a bit thin and has blotchy looking skin. The cloudy eyes on the gem tang could be related to this.... I'm thinking this could be flukes. The loss of the other fish may or may not be related.

 

[Lostoften]

Attaching other pictures to see if any other signs of infection are noticed. Occasionally will notice white spots, but hard to determine if it’s sand or air on fish. Last night the fairy wrasse had considerable and today none.

 

[Lostoften]

Finding it difficult to get picture of the tomini, but his body does have some lighter areas (not white spots like ich) but discoloration.

@Jay Hemdal, looking back at Sundays videos the bristle tooth was acting similar in the morning, and then in the afternoon was fine and swimming with the other fish/feeding as normal. Not sure if that helps in diagnosis.

This isn’t my first tank, but it’s my largest, and don’t remember this much death starting up previous tanks.

Will set up quarantine if need be, but don’t want to stress fish out for wrong reason.

Appreciate the support.

 

[Lostoften]

Notice the blue morph doing this “darting” as well. Several of the tangs have been hanging out more in this front right corner as well. The wave maker is on the back wall of tank, mounted horizontally. Haven’t seen them swimming into the pump, directly but odd behavior in front of the glass.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That darting forward can be a sign of flukes.

 

[Lostoften]

So would the next logical step be to try and pull the blue morph for a fresh water dip (tap water) for 5 mins and see if any parasites are visible? Then if flukes visible, treat with prazi?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Attaching other pictures to see if any other signs of infection are noticed. Occasionally will notice white spots, but hard to determine if it’s sand or air on fish. Last night the fairy wrasse had considerable and today none.

Cant tell if glass is clean or not , seeing various dots. The foxface appears to have mucus cones. The gem still questionable on flukes and the Purple, I see what appears to be dots also.
Some signs of flukes which @Jay Hemdal mentioned in addition to scratching will be elevated breathing, loss of appetite, gasping at surface, hiding, sudden darting across tank and inflamed gills. Appette looks good in the video but also makes it hard to observe the fish which are chasing food

 

[Lostoften]

Sorry for asking a ton of questions, just don’t want to take an action that causes more harm/stress than needed. Here are some more videos.

 

[Lostoften]

Appetite has been strong in all of the fish, with the exception of the firefish which died 8/10. I don’t notice any other fish breathing like the bristle tooth was, the seem to still go into hiding on movement in front of the tank/loud noises.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Sorry for asking a ton of questions, just don’t want to take an action that causes more harm/stress than needed. Here are some more videos.

Purple is flashing enough to point at flukes as a symptom. The Gem has heavy prints on body and can be from irritation but no signs leading again to bacterial.
Two opinions better than one but dosing tank with prazi will be a good start. @Jay Hemdal - your thoughts (some good video here to see now)

 

[Seven Year Nap]

This may be a silly question, but did you cut the flow off from your returns at ~40 seconds into your first video? And turned it off for the full tank shot picture?

It doesn't look like there is much surface agitation for oxygen exchange if you didn't.

 

[Lostoften]

Yes, the return pump was off as was starting a water change. The pump was off longer then normal due to doing 25gallons. The wave makers were still running, but are deep enough in water they don’t cause surface agitation.

 

[Lostoften]

Reading more about fluke treatment, would API general cure be a good option in display tank? Reading that its concentration is lower than other options which would be beneficial to the wrasse in the tank.

Fear of treating in QT tank is, one having a large enough tank to house fish and/or multiple tanks. Along with they aren't currently running, so if they experience an ammonia spike while away losing fish due to the setup not being ideal.