Catastrophe while cleaning

[HankstankXXL750]

While I was cleaning my Fowler 160 gallon 40 gallon sump. I turned my ice cap in sump scrubber pump off but left the light on so I could see to vacuum the sump. I left it on for the entire time that I was doing my water changes and cleaning some algae off of the rocks. While refilling I noticed an odor. First thought was something hot or melting (have left a heater plugged in while in an empty trash barrel before. I think it was from the scrubber possibly overheating the algae I left in it to seed the next run. I also thought it smelled like skim mate when I drain my skimmer cup. Once I started my pumps back up my fish started going crazy. My marbles cat shark started sprinting from on side to the other and then lunged up and over the the edge of the tank. When I went to pick him up he was kind of frozen in an s curve. I immediately got all of the fish in a trash can of water I took out of my reef the night before.
My nitrates were 55 prior to water change, changed out about 100 gallons. Nitrate wouldn’t test right after first got 5, couple hours later 10.8 then following evening 23.5 which is about where I thought they should be. And today around 48 hours later my nitrites are at .5 (tank fully cycled and at least 8 months running and no new additions for months).
Wondering if anyone else has ever experienced something like this. Did the acrylic in the ice cap give off a toxin? Did the heated algae give off toxins, or release nitrites? Or could I have just released too much (stuff) from vacuuming sand, scrubbing some rocks (in the trash can with tank water) not in tank?

returned the clown grouper back in 24 hours after running a large media bag of carbon in sump under the inflow tubes. He seemed fine so 24 hours later I started putting the fish back in. 6 lined puffer, broomtail wrasse, and then the shark. Shark started being spastic again and when settled was breathing very hard so I took him back out. Didn’t put the lime green wrasse or the panther grouper back
In.
Any help or advise appreciated.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

The big voltage you normally see is a bad heater. But, pumps go bad and anything really. Salt water is corrosive.

Yeah I know. I have already unplugged my Finnex heaters couple weeks ago as I got tingly when reaching in the sump. Heaters less than 1 year old.

so I don’t know if this works, but I tested with the pump in RODI water and grounding to a third hole on my apex. Reads about 7V with it off and 16V with it on. I unplugged it and still get a reading of 7-8V in the bucket with nothing plugged in.

 

[F i s h y]

I am not an expert by any means. But I think what you are describing is induced voltage which is different from stray voltage. I also do not know the difference in effect either would have. What I can tell you is if you are not using one you should get a grounding probe. They are only like 15 bucks and may fix your issue. In addition to being a good safety tool.

The only other thought I had regarding this was is it possible you had anything on your hands. Like did you pump gas that day or work in a shop or anything like that. These could be things you can't or didn't test for.

Given that the shark is the most affected I think voltage of some kind is your issue but I want to make sure we don't get tunnel vision.

 

[Dburr1014]

Yeah I know. I have already unplugged my Finnex heaters couple weeks ago as I got tingly when reaching in the sump. Heaters less than 1 year old.

so I don’t know if this works, but I tested with the pump in RODI water and grounding to a third hole on my apex. Reads about 7V with it off and 16V with it on. I unplugged it and still get a reading of 7-8V in the bucket with nothing plugged in.

Rodi does not conduct electricity.

I am not an expert by any means. But I think what you are describing is induced voltage which is different from stray voltage. I also do not know the difference in effect either would have. What I can tell you is if you are not using one you should get a grounding probe. They are only like 15 bucks and may fix your issue. In addition to being a good safety tool.

The only other thought I had regarding this was is it possible you had anything on your hands. Like did you pump gas that day or work in a shop or anything like that. These could be things you can't or didn't test for.

Given that the shark is the most affected I think voltage of some kind is your issue but I want to make sure we don't get tunnel vision.

Very good advice.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

I am not an expert by any means. But I think what you are describing is induced voltage which is different from stray voltage. I also do not know the difference in effect either would have. What I can tell you is if you are not using one you should get a grounding probe. They are only like 15 bucks and may fix your issue. In addition to being a good safety tool.

The only other thought I had regarding this was is it possible you had anything on your hands. Like did you pump gas that day or work in a shop or anything like that. These could be things you can't or didn't test for.

Given that the shark is the most affected I think voltage of some kind is your issue but I want to make sure we don't get tunnel vision.

I’m fairly sure I was clean. Started in the morning before I was going to work as it was raining and I’m a contractor. I only use dawn dish soap when I’m going to be around the tank or feeding and rinse thoroughly.

was going to get a grounding probe when I first experienced it from a Finnex heater on my QT observation system but looking at the internet there are two sides to everything.
Everyone seems to think it is a good safety issue for people, but one side says it completes the circuit and makes the voltage more damaging to the tank inhabitants and the other side says you should have one.

I have never had one on any tanks so I don’t know.

 

[Dburr1014]

What finnex heaters? The titanium ones are grounding

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Rodi does not conduct electricity.
Very good advice.

Ok so I ran through everything and when I put the pump back into the tank I found it had very little change. What I seem to have is around 25.6-26V with everything running.
2 Nero 5 pumps .9
Scrubber pump 1
Scrubber light 3.9
Little giant pump 5 for UV
Red Sea 900 skimmer 4.2
UV light 1
Current return pump .1
FX 6 .5
3 hydra 32 .9
ATO solenoid .4
Apex controller and probes 7.9

so I think it is mostly induction.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

What finnex heaters? The titanium ones are grounding

I bought all one kind from my LFS as they said it is what they use. I just got back into the hobby after a 10 year separation lol. We moved and I just didn’t have time to get everything set back up. In that time I have purchased 15 or so of these. Had a 200 watt shocking me in multi tank QT set up, then was shocked in this tank we are discussing, and then my apex on my S1000 breaker tripped and I eliminated it to the heaters. Now maybe have too much running on that apex? Going to send them a question to find out, but it worked fine since late feb early March and just tripped twice last week. Ordered BRS titanium 600 Watt probes and ink bird controller. Heaters placed flat in the sump and left alone so no reason for them to short (not messing around with them, wiggling the wires putting them under extreme bends etc.
I think they are an hma or hmx but would have to look them up to be sure. So at least two for sure actually sent enough through the system for me to get bit, and more than a little tingle.
Pic included

 

[HankstankXXL750]

Rodi does not conduct electricity.
Very good advice.

Are you saying the grounding plug is good advice?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You asked why I suggested to not measure nitrite, then you gave the reason. It’s not toxic at any level you will attain so is a wasted effort.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

You asked why I suggested to not measure nitrite, then you gave the reason. It’s not toxic at any level you will attain so is a wasted effort.

I always thought it was the second killer after ammonia. So is it that it won’t get too high in a cycled tank? Or that even during cycling? That is why I asked, google it and one guy says 1000’s times less toxic to salt than fresh and the next guy says anything measurable is dangerous. So I who has done this for 15 years then out for 10 and back in for about 1 year, need a little clarification if you are so minded.
Thanks.
been following through searches, but decided to join so I could participate.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

I am not an expert by any means. But I think what you are describing is induced voltage which is different from stray voltage. I also do not know the difference in effect either would have. What I can tell you is if you are not using one you should get a grounding probe. They are only like 15 bucks and may fix your issue. In addition to being a good safety tool.

The only other thought I had regarding this was is it possible you had anything on your hands. Like did you pump gas that day or work in a shop or anything like that. These could be things you can't or didn't test for.

Given that the shark is the most affected I think voltage of some kind is your issue but I want to make sure we don't get tunnel vision.

So I ordered grounding probes for all 6 of my systems. But won’t receive until Friday. However I have to assume the tank had the same amount of stray or induced voltage before the cleaning. Why is it affecting her so much now?

should I shut down the scrubber light as it seems to be putting out 4 volts and that is the unit I got hot. Maybe it is stray vs induced? And see how she reacts. Don’t want to stress her too much, but don’t want her in a trash barrel for a week either.
Do you know if induced messes with sharks or just stray?

thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I always thought it was the second killer after ammonia. So is it that it won’t get too high in a cycled tank? Or that even during cycling? That is why I asked, google it and one guy says 1000’s times less toxic to salt than fresh and the next guy says anything measurable is dangerous. So I who has done this for 15 years then out for 10 and back in for about 1 year, need a little clarification if you are so minded.
Thanks.
been following through searches, but decided to join so I could participate.

It’s no killer at all in any reef tank.

I show actual data here. No need to rely on random opinions. It takes hundreds or thousands of ppm nitrite to kill a marine fish.
Nitrite and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

 

[F i s h y]

So I ordered grounding probes for all 6 of my systems. But won’t receive until Friday. However I have to assume the tank had the same amount of stray or induced voltage before the cleaning. Why is it affecting her so much now?

should I shut down the scrubber light as it seems to be putting out 4 volts and that is the unit I got hot. Maybe it is stray vs induced? And see how she reacts. Don’t want to stress her too much, but don’t want her in a trash barrel for a week either.
Do you know if induced messes with sharks or just stray?

thanks

I honestly don't know. There was a thread I was trying to find that clearly defined the differences and the effects but I can't find it.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

It’s no killer at all in any reef tank.

I show actual data here. No need to rely on random opinions. It takes hundreds or thousands of ppm nitrite to kill a marine fish.
Nitrite and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Thank You.
that was a very interesting article and answered my questions. Pretty cool, I have read many of your articles as I have searched for answers. Didn’t realize it was you as I don’t remember names well, but recognized the site as soon as I clicked the link.
Have a great day.

 

[HankstankXXL750]

I honestly don't know. There was a thread I was trying to find that clearly defined the differences and the effects but I can't find it.

Thanks

 

[F i s h y]

Thanks

I'll look again later for you. It was very informative but it's been a while.

 

[Dburr1014]

I bought all one kind from my LFS as they said it is what they use. I just got back into the hobby after a 10 year separation lol. We moved and I just didn’t have time to get everything set back up. In that time I have purchased 15 or so of these. Had a 200 watt shocking me in multi tank QT set up, then was shocked in this tank we are discussing, and then my apex on my S1000 breaker tripped and I eliminated it to the heaters. Now maybe have too much running on that apex? Going to send them a question to find out, but it worked fine since late feb early March and just tripped twice last week. Ordered BRS titanium 600 Watt probes and ink bird controller. Heaters placed flat in the sump and left alone so no reason for them to short (not messing around with them, wiggling the wires putting them under extreme bends etc.
I think they are an hma or hmx but would have to look them up to be sure. So at least two for sure actually sent enough through the system for me to get bit, and more than a little tingle.
Pic included

Those BRS heaters have a bad track record. They have been failing.

I thought fishy had a good point not to focus on one thing with blinders on.