Brook or ich????

[JPR1212]

While this might 'help', I do not think that those would be part of a routine protocol - except that there are some instructions for baths with ruby rally Pro - I'm sure @Jay Hemdal will weigh in

copy that, thanks for the quick response! Hoping to start ich treatment tomorrow. How fast do you generally want to raise copper? I’m going to be using copper power so I was just curious. Thank you all for your help btw, Ik I’m bombarding with a million and one questions!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Here’s the link to vid on YouTube

Tough to see, but at one point, I did see what looks like Neobenedenia flukes. In the previous pictures, the foxface looks like it has ich. Hyposalinity, if you can do that, will treat both of these issues at the same time:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[JPR1212]

Tough to see, but at one point, I did see what looks like Neobenedenia flukes. In the previous pictures, the foxface looks like it has ich. Hyposalinity, if you can do that, will treat both of these issues at the same time:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Thank you jay I appreciate it a lot. What do you think is causing them to breath so fast is it the flukes or the ich? I’m gonna go down the route of copper power to treat the ich personally I just think it’s easier for me to do that and maintain it then hypo salinity. but I’m just trying to make a game plan to treat everything. I might do a bath in prazi and rally pro (separately) before I start the coppper qt. Might do an hour each bath today. Thoughts on this? Just like a one and done thing to help the fish out incase they all have flukes and brook.

 

[JPR1212]

I only see issues with the clowns - however it's difficult to see. There is a thread at the top of the fish disease diagnosis and treatment forum (a sticky) - which will give you a good place to start. As to what drug to use for QT - i.e. the protocol with copper and prazipro - or the formalin based treatment others have already given their recommendations. Sorry not to be able to help more. Best wishes with the fish

PS - If this turns out to be a combination of Ich and brooklynella (I believe you asked the question) - they can occur together - you will need to treat all of your fish using the quarantine protocol (with copper and prazipro) - and leave your display tank fallow for 45-76 days

Thank you

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you jay I appreciate it a lot. What do you think is causing them to breath so fast is it the flukes or the ich? I’m gonna go down the route of copper power to treat the ich personally I just think it’s easier for me to do that and maintain it then hypo salinity. but I’m just trying to make a game plan to treat everything. I might do a bath in prazi and rally pro (separately) before I start the coppper qt. Might do an hour each bath today. Thoughts on this? Just like a one and done thing to help the fish out incase they all have flukes and brook.

Ich doesn't cause rapid breathing until the infection has lingered for a long time. Gill flukes, water issues or velvet are more likely the cause of rapid breathing. Hypo will not help against velvet.

Prazi baths need to be dosed correctly for them to work, and then, they do not control fluke eggs that are still in the tank. This is the same issue with any dip - putting the fish back into the tank after the dip just reinfects it.

Jay

 

[JPR1212]

Ich doesn't cause rapid breathing until the infection has lingered for a long time. Gill flukes, water issues or velvet are more likely the cause of rapid breathing. Hypo will not help against velvet.

Prazi baths need to be dosed correctly for them to work, and then, they do not control fluke eggs that are still in the tank. This is the same issue with any dip - putting the fish back into the tank after the dip just reinfects it.

Jay

Sounds good definitely will do some research on amounts for a prazi bath just to help the fish breathe if flukes are the case even if it doesn’t take care of the eggs. Just something for some sort of relief. Then qt properly for ich. I have a question in terms of dosing copper. How fast should copper be raised to therapeutic levels? Should it be within a day or over the course of multiple days? Thanks for all your help btw!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sounds good definitely will do some research on amounts for a prazi bath just to help the fish breathe if flukes are the case even if it doesn’t take care of the eggs. Just something for some sort of relief. Then qt properly for ich. I have a question in terms of dosing copper. How fast should copper be raised to therapeutic levels? Should it be within a day or over the course of multiple days? Thanks for all your help btw!

A five minute FW dip will dislodge flukes better than a prazi bath will:

Freshwater Dips

“Freshwater dips” (FW Dips) are commonly used to dislodge certain parasites from the skin of marine fishes. This is more of a diagnostic tool, and less of a permanent cure. Dips can be used to lower the parasite load temporarily, while waiting for another treatment to begin. Looking at the...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[JPR1212]

A five minute FW dip will dislodge flukes better than a prazi bath will:

Freshwater Dips

“Freshwater dips” (FW Dips) are commonly used to dislodge certain parasites from the skin of marine fishes. This is more of a diagnostic tool, and less of a permanent cure. Dips can be used to lower the parasite load temporarily, while waiting for another treatment to begin. Looking at the...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

@Jay Hemdal so here’s an update, all the fish are looking good! They’ve been in qt for almost a week. My foxface’s breathing is starting to slowly return to normal. I have the qt at 2.5ppm with copper power. Body symptoms of ich are still there but I imagine it’s gonna take awhile to go away. The tang and all other fish are good with one exception. I saw one of my chromis today has what looks like either a bad gash or a red spot on his side. It’s frustrating now to think that I’m getting one thing under control just for a possible whole other disease to be taking affect. What I read sometimes spots like this are called uronema and basically it’s incurable. Any ideas on what this may be? Thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal so here’s an update, all the fish are looking good! They’ve been in qt for almost a week. My foxface’s breathing is starting to slowly return to normal. I have the qt at 2.5ppm with copper power. Body symptoms of ich are still there but I imagine it’s gonna take awhile to go away. The tang and all other fish are good with one exception. I saw one of my chromis today has what looks like either a bad gash or a red spot on his side. It’s frustrating now to think that I’m getting one thing under control just for a possible whole other disease to be taking affect. What I read sometimes spots like this are called uronema and basically it’s incurable. Any ideas on what this may be? Thanks!

That's another issue - called Uronema. Copper won't treat that, in fact no external medication will because this is a protozoan that lives deep in the muscles of the fish and you don't even see an infection until it erupts on the surface. You will likely lose this damsel, but it is NOT really contagious to other fish. If you want to read up on that, here is a write up I did:

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[JPR1212]

That's another issue - called Uronema. Copper won't treat that, in fact no external medication will because this is a protozoan that lives deep in the muscles of the fish and you don't even see an infection until it erupts on the surface. You will likely lose this damsel, but it is NOT really contagious to other fish. If you want to read up on that, here is a write up I did:

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Thanks Jay!

 

[JPR1212]

Hey quick question what’s crawling all over the pvc pipes? Is that the ich parasite? Just wanted to see since I’m curious. All fish are in qt tank with copper power. @Jay Hemdal

 

[JPR1212]

Hey quick question what’s crawling all over the pvc pipes? Is that the ich parasite? Just wanted to see since I’m curious. All fish are in qt tank with copper power. @Jay Hemdal

In case the video doesn’t work^

 

[Sharkbait19]

Those are pods - the ich when off of a fish would be microscopic and wouldn’t be moving.
What level is copper at? I’m surprised the pods are even surviving treatment.

 

[JPR1212]

Those are pods - the ich when off of a fish would be microscopic and wouldn’t be moving.
What level is copper at? I’m surprised the pods are even surviving treatment.

2.48 with Hanna checker, which is why I’m confused. They should be dead right?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

2.48 with Hanna checker, which is why I’m confused. They should be dead right?

Pods are multicellular crustaceans and are pretty resistant to copper. However seeing them in such huge numbers implies that there is a lot of uneaten food for them to feed on.
Jay

 

[JPR1212]

@Jay Hemdal

Random question just out of curiosity. So I know ich goes through cycles but I was curious to know that if when all of it dropped off the fish during the cycle. Could you just scoop the fish out put it into another tank with fresh everything and would it be free?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

Random question just out of curiosity. So I know ich goes through cycles but I was curious to know that if when all of it dropped off the fish during the cycle. Could you just scoop the fish out put it into another tank with fresh everything and would it be free?

Yes - That is the basis for TTM, the tank transfer method. You basically move the fish through a series of tank changes and “outrun” the parasite. It works for ich, but not for other parasites.

Jay

 

[JPR1212]

Yes - That is the basis for TTM, the tank transfer method. You basically move the fish through a series of tank changes and “outrun” the parasite. It works for ich, but not for other parasites.

Jay

Thank you and how long does ich usually stay in the phase where it’s off the fish?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you and how long does ich usually stay in the phase where it’s off the fish?

It varies do to water temperature and oxygen levels. It can range from a couple of days to more than 30 days. The record, in cool water with low oxygen and no bacteria is 76 days in a lab.

Jay