Brook on new clowns ? Advice appreciated

[Ross]

I’m sorry. That looks near death to me. I doubt she’d survive another formalin dip, no win situation, but it doesn’t appear they have worked anyway. Without metro your only other hopes are ruby reef rally or fresh water dip.

 

[Zevulos]

I’m sorry. That looks near death to me. I doubt she’d survive another formalin dip, no win situation, but it doesn’t appear they have worked anyway. Without metro your only other hopes are ruby reef rally or fresh water dip.

Unfortunately im unable to buy Ruby reef rally over here either
Isnt a FW dip more stressful than a Formalin bath ?

 

[Zevulos]

Also looking at the video would you also agree its Brook ?

I’m sorry. That looks near death to me. I doubt she’d survive another formalin dip, no win situation, but it doesn’t appear they have worked anyway. Without metro your only other hopes are ruby reef rally or fresh water dip.

 

[Ross]

Unfortunately im unable to buy Ruby reef rally over here either
Isnt a FW dip more stressful than a Formalin bath ?

I’d say they are comparable, based on my very small sample size (personal fish only). Jay has done many more than I have, I’m sure.

And yes, I would think that is Brooke. The male definitely looked like it, the female does too in the last video.

 

[Zevulos]

Formalin dips on a fish that is lying on the bottom can be too rough and may be fatal.

Sorry - there may not be a way to resolve this ….

Is it just a waiting game at this point ?
No FW dip, or formalin dip ?
Would you dose the tank with a small amount of formalin as you mentioned the other day ?

Is there any other medication i could go to a LFS and pick up for her ? (unable to get metro in the UK)

 

[Zevulos]

when I bathed her last night I managed to get a photo of her poop (not sure if this changes anything ?)

 

[Zevulos]

@Jay Hemdal I was wondering if dosing the QT tank with formalin instead of dipping her would be a good idea ? (was thinking less stress)

Ive currently worked out this from humblefish's dosing guide.
0.94 milliliter (ml) per 10 gallons
0.094ml of 37% formalin per gallon

Tank is holding 30 litres of water so 7.925 gallons

so I should dose my 30 litre tank with 0.745ml of Formalin (humblefish uses 37% Formalin where as I only have 30% so not sure if I should change this ?)

Thanks

 

[Zevulos]

I’ve also covered the tank sides and 50% of the front to reduce light and she seems happier, she is swimming about instead of laying down now (although still only around the bottom)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal I was wondering if dosing the QT tank with formalin instead of dipping her would be a good idea ? (was thinking less stress)

Ive currently worked out this from humblefish's dosing guide.
0.94 milliliter (ml) per 10 gallons
0.094ml of 37% formalin per gallon

Tank is holding 30 litres of water so 7.925 gallons

so I should dose my 30 litre tank with 0.745ml of Formalin (humblefish uses 37% Formalin where as I only have 30% so not sure if I should change this ?)

Thanks

I thought you already were doing a 25 ppm static bath?

The math is tricky because of the 30% formalin that you have. Don't make the common mistake - 37% formaldehyde IS 100% formalin. 0.095 ml per gallon of 100% formalin will result in a dose of 25 ppm. Your material is 30% formalin, so you need about 3 times that, about 0.32 ml per gallon. Be sure your label says "30% formalin" and not "30% formaldehyde"

 

[Zevulos]

I thought you already were doing a 25 ppm static bath?

The math is tricky because of the 30% formalin that you have. Don't make the common mistake - 37% formaldehyde IS 100% formalin. 0.095 ml per gallon of 100% formalin will result in a dose of 25 ppm. Your material is 30% formalin, so you need about 3 times that, about 0.32 ml per gallon. Be sure your label says "30% formalin" and not "30% formaldehyde"

No sorry, i have only been doing the dips. on ingredients the bottle says "Formalin 30%"
So in 30 litres dose 2.56ml of 30% Formalin ?

Doesnt that seem like quite a lot ?
For my Formalin Dips ive used 2 litre of water and 0.3ml of 30% Formalin

 

[Zevulos]

Does that mean my dip should have been 3x stronger ?

Old dip
0.3ml of 30% formalin in 2 litres

New Dip
0.55ml per gallon at 37% formalin
1.65ml per gallon at 30% formalin

0.5 gallon - 2 litre
Dip with 0.82ml of 30% formalin for 2 litres of water

 

[Zevulos]

This is the product

Pond Medicine - Formalin

Kockney Koi Formalin is an effective treatment against many parasites such as Whitespot, Flukes, Ciliates and Flagellates.

kockneykoi.co.uk

 

[Zevulos]

I thought you already were doing a 25 ppm static bath?

The math is tricky because of the 30% formalin that you have. Don't make the common mistake - 37% formaldehyde IS 100% formalin. 0.095 ml per gallon of 100% formalin will result in a dose of 25 ppm. Your material is 30% formalin, so you need about 3 times that, about 0.32 ml per gallon. Be sure your label says "30% formalin" and not "30% formaldehyde"

So im not getting tangled in maths could you recommend how many ML per litre you would use 30% formalin in for
1: a 45 minute Dip
2: medicating a QT tank

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Does that mean my dip should have been 3x stronger ?

Old dip
0.3ml of 30% formalin in 2 litres

New Dip
0.55ml per gallon at 37% formalin
1.65ml per gallon at 30% formalin

0.5 gallon - 2 litre
Dip with 0.82ml of 30% formalin for 2 litres of water

Let’s get confirmation of these numbers before you do anything. When I first ran your numbers, it seemed you were using 150 ppm for one hour, that’s good. The static bath is 25 ppm for 24 hours. I’ll try to rerun the numbers in a bit here……

 

[Zevulos]

Let’s get confirmation of these numbers before you do anything. When I first ran your numbers, it seemed you were using 150 ppm for one hour, that’s good. The static bath is 25 ppm for 24 hours. I’ll try to rerun the numbers in a bit here……

Thank you so much !!!!!\
She is doing MUCH better today, i covered the tank last night with a towel so it was darker for her and she seems to prefer it massively

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you so much !!!!!\
She is doing MUCH better today, i covered the tank last night with a towel so it was darker for her and she seems to prefer it massively

I spent about half an hour trying to run the numbers. The trouble is there are too many units of measure in play here; gallons, liters, ppm, percentages. This increases the risk of a simple math error. Add to it the question I have about their product (see below) and the whole process becomes too difficult to really work out.

Using their static bath dose of 10 ml per 150 gallons, that works out to be 0.066 ml per gallon. However, the product is only 30% strength, so that works out to be around 0.02 ml per gallon if you were using full strength formalin. The normal dose of 25 ppm of full strength formalin for 24 hours is 0.095 ml per gallon. So their dose is about 5x lower. Now, due to oxygen scavenging, you do dose ponds a bit lower than aquariums, but not this much. I think you'll need to contact the company to ask them why there is such a difference. One answer would be that their "30% formalin" is actually 30% formaldehyde" as I had cautioned about. Then, you would use their product essentially the same as "37% formaldehyde" which is termed "100% formalin"

 

[Zevulos]

So ive just spoke to the "Helpline" on the back of the product and spoke to someone who says formalin and formaldehyde are the same so id take this with a pinch of salt.
He said that it is 30% Formaldehyde so if thats the case i would follow Humblefish's dosing guide ?

 

[Zevulos]

The only other formalin i can get in the UK (and can get it from a local koi shop) is the
NT Labs Koi Care - Formaldehyde
On the website the ingredients list - Active Ingredients: Formaldehyde 30.0 % w/v

So im also betting he Kockney Koi "30% formalin" Is actually 30% Formaldehyde.

Would you go and get the NT labs Koi Care as then i know its exactly the same as what Humblefish's dosing recommendations are ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The only other formalin i can get in the UK (and can get it from a local koi shop) is the
NT Labs Koi Care - Formaldehyde
On the website the ingredients list - Active Ingredients: Formaldehyde 30.0 % w/v

So im also betting he Kockney Koi "30% formalin" Is actually 30% Formaldehyde.

Would you go and get the NT labs Koi Care as then i know its exactly the same as what Humblefish's dosing recommendations are ?

No - don’t use Humblefish’s dosing, he is figuring 100% formalin, which is 37% formaldehyde gas in water. He also has published some doses that are much higher than what is considered a safe dose.

Assuming that indeed, your product is 30% formaldehyde, that is a little more than 75% as strong as regular formalin.

Sorry, I’m out camping for the weekend and don’t have a calculator and my reference books with me in order to calculate a dose for you.

 

[Zevulos]

Ok no problem, do you know anyone else that may be able to calculate the dosage while you’re on holiday for me ?
Do you suggest just keeping to the 0.3ml per 2l of water and ttm for now and not bother with dosing the QT until I can get a dosage recommendation?