Bolus dosing

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think its important to gather more info.

I am all for gathering data to evaluate any husbandry technique we use, but unless It involves a comparison of two very similar situations with just the husbandry practice changed, then it becomes difficult to interpret the data.

The same tank system using one method for a few months then changing just that one method and observing for additional time seems like the best sort of comparison we can hope to perform.

 

[Oldreefer44]

I will have the situation you describe when I report in. For what it's worth, I am seeing similar PH results so far but am only 10 days in.

 

[Domi]

@TomsKorallen posted a video which for me has the most detailed description of the effects on his tank.
It is in German but I guess it is possible to have the English caption in YouTube.
Apparently not all corals react equally and the biggest effect came from the change in light. But maybe @TomsKorallen himself can comment on it.

 

[Oldreefer44]

Interesting. I noticed the same thing with some of my corals where they appeared to go through some sort of "adjustment" period with their colors gradually changing. Don't have any "millis" so can't comment on that issue.

 

[carbl]

The problem is that you are changing two things here. The addition of KH as a bolus dosage and the increase in light (intensity).
In the video, Tom clearly states that increasing the light to over 120% at the beginning of the day and simultaneously reducing the light in relation to the length of the day has led to the corals developing richer colors, but the fluorescence has been lost.
FM tested with bolus for two years. But what would have been really meaningful would have been 4 aquaria with the same size and similar stocking.
1. continuous dosing of KH without changing the light
2. bolus dosing without changing the light
3. continuous dosing of KH with light change
4. bolus dosing with light change

Only then would you get a clear picture. Everything else is individual experience, which is also valuable, but ultimately has little significance as to what works and how.
Perhaps there is someone who uses the FM Carbonate Mix or another bicarbonate supply system. You could continue to add KH throughout the day, but use the light setting from the bolus system. What influence does this have on the pH? How do the corals change? In a second step, you could switch to the bolus dosage and test again to see what further changes occur.

 

[Big E]

If they spent 2 years testing this it would have been very simple to do before after pictures, monthly pictures, ect. Show a pic of a struggling acro and then it's recovery and growth. There is none of that, Why??????

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If they spent 2 years testing this it would have been very simple to do before after pictures, monthly pictures, ect. Show a pic of a struggling acro and then it's recovery and growth. There is none of that, Why??????

This may be due to me not watching all the videos, but I’ve not seen any of the bolus proponents in this thread even say what the FM “better than” results from bolus dosing are even being compared to.

 

[Oldreefer44]

The problem is that you are changing two things here. The addition of KH as a bolus dosage and the increase in light (intensity).
In the video, Tom clearly states that increasing the light to over 120% at the beginning of the day and simultaneously reducing the light in relation to the length of the day has led to the corals developing richer colors, but the fluorescence has been lost.
FM tested with bolus for two years. But what would have been really meaningful would have been 4 aquaria with the same size and similar stocking.
1. continuous dosing of KH without changing the light
2. bolus dosing without changing the light
3. continuous dosing of KH with light change
4. bolus dosing with light change

Only then would you get a clear picture. Everything else is individual experience, which is also valuable, but ultimately has little significance as to what works and how.
Perhaps there is someone who uses the FM Carbonate Mix or another bicarbonate supply system. You could continue to add KH throughout the day, but use the light setting from the bolus system. What influence does this have on the pH? How do the corals change? In a second step, you could switch to the bolus dosage and test again to see what further changes occur.

Agree completely. Like so many things it would take several identical systems to narrow down the specific causes and effects. I am seeing multiple significant changes/improvements but to your points is it the lighting alone? Is it something in the FM trace elements? Is it the timing of the KH dosing? My sense is that it is largely the lighting. To me, the loss of fluorescence is largely due to the increase in white lighting during the first few hours of the photoperiod because as they fade to a higher percentage of blue the fluorescence becomes more visible. Biggest issue I am having so far is keeping up with the increased demand for Alk. Compiling a lot of data that I will share around the 30 day mark.

 

[Big E]

Randy,
I've watched all the videos there is nothing........no comparisons and silly comments about "old tank syndrome".......... Bupkis

It's really just par the course............same as some of the trace element theories he throws around as facts with some elements relationship and on & on.

 

[rtparty]

TLDR: We (bolus dosing proponents) increased light energy by at least 20% and saw changes in our tanks. Conclusion: Must be the dosing technique we employed.

 

[ReneReef]

Biggest issue I am having so far is keeping up with the increased demand for Alk.

Could you telI how you determined the increased demand for Alk?

Are you using the 5000 dKH/L (10 mL increases the KH of 100 L by 5) that FM states or a different number?

Thanks!

 

[Oldreefer44]

Started with that but it wasn't enough. KH was dropping daily so had to increase it to 15 ml increases and am finally seeing it stabilize. I assume it is because I probably have a little larger bio-lode than average.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Started with that but it wasn't enough. KH was dropping daily so had to increase it to 15 ml increases and am finally seeing it stabilize. I assume it is because I probably have a little larger bio-lode than average.

Increased compared to what? I think the question relates to the mislabeling of the alk content of the FM product.

 

[Oldreefer44]

Compared to the recommendation of 10ml per 100 l. That's all.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Compared to the recommendation of 10ml per 100 l. That's all.

Where does that recommendation come from? How can anyone suggest an alk dose without knowing what is in the tank?

 

[elysics]

Where does that recommendation come from? How can anyone suggest an alk dose without knowing what is in the tank?

In one of the videos it was explained that they have to print such recommendations incase someone simply does everything wrong and just dumps it in without testing. So the recommendations are basically a level where a beginner tank likely dies slowly rather than quickly.

And so that if someone just dumps the whole bottle in without understanding anything, they can simply say, well you violated the recommendation

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In one of the videos it was explained that they have to print such recommendations incase someone simply does everything wrong and just dumps it in without testing. So the recommendations are basically a level where a beginner tank likely dies slowly rather than quickly.

And so that if someone just dumps the whole bottle in without understanding anything, they can simply say, well you violated the recommendation

Ok, makes sense. I’d take it as a starting dose in the absence of any known demand, and adjust from there.

 

[ReneReef]

Started with that but it wasn't enough. KH was dropping daily so had to increase it to 15 ml increases and am finally seeing it stabilize. I assume it is because I probably have a little larger bio-lode than average.

Compared to the recommendation of 10ml per 100 l. That's all.

Okay, this raises more questions.

1) How much of what product were you dosing per day, before switching to the bolus method?
2) How much are you dosing per day now?

With that information we can determine how alk demands compare exactly.

 

[Oldreefer44]

Realize that I am somewhat hesitant to keep going with this because I am not a scientist I am a retired psychologist so am well aware that this is a controversial subject that will likely engender a lot of pushback. At that point I will probably bow out. I was dosing Kalk (1300ml) and All for Reef (25ml). The former to try and increase PH which never climbed over 7.9. The latter to make sure that trace elements were still present. I have been in the SW hobby since 1975 and a reefer since 2006. I consider myself successful, but like everyone else aspired to have one of "those tanks" which by the way is a 180 heavy sps mixed reef.
When I heard Mike Paletta say that he was having success raising PH and among other things, I thought that since I have nothing to lose....why not? Realize that I am a skeptical person by nature but one who also follows directions. No doubt a product of having been married for 40 plus years and having survived 4 daughters.
So I decided to give it a shot. Even before switching over I decided to start ramping up my lighting. As I did I noticed a slight drop in Alk (down to 8.1) but nothing drastic.
I started the Bolus method on July 31. So far I have seen PH move up to a low of 7.9 and a high of 8.2. Don't know why or how but I don't care. If that is all that happens then I don't care I am good with it. I started out dosing 200 ml of KH balling and saw KH fall gradually down to 7.2 dkh even though I was ramping up dosage 50 ml every day or two. I am now at 500ml a day and have climbed up to 7.3. So not sure where I will end up.
I have ramped up lighting using ATI Straton Pros from their recommended sps program almost 50% (mostly whites). Have lost no corals, although my leather doesn't appear to like it, and see no negative side effects other than a little more algae on the glass. As far as some of the other claims by FM, while I do see some interesting things I will not include them at this point because they are purely anecdotal.
I did send off a ICP test before switching over and will send another at the 30 day mark or whenever KH gets back where I want it. I am especially curious as to several of the minor traces that were consistently showing up as deficient i the past.
So, that's the story so far. I have no desire to try to "sell" the Bolus method to anyone else or convince them that they should use it. It is working for me so far and as a famous philosopher once said "that's all I have to say about that". Thanks

 

[SDchris]

controversial subject that will likely engender a lot of pushback.

The controversy is in the way it was described. Nothing wrong with detailing your observations.

I have ramped up lighting using ATI Straton Pros........side effects other than a little more algae on the glass

The increase in lighting will drive up photosynthesis and also pH. Coupled with a higher average alkalinity, the changes you see are all within reason.