Best Dip for Biota Maricultured SPS

beesnreefs · Mar 10, 2023

I’m considering trying a colony of Biota Bali Maricultured SPS. My understanding is maricultured sticks can come with a lot of potential pests.

Is this just a bad idea and I should move on? Or is there a solid dipping method you think I could use to ensure a “clean” piece goes into my system?

FWIW, I do not have the option of running a QT tank for the coral

Spare time · Mar 11, 2023

I've used a lot and never found much of a difference. Reef primer, coral rx, two little fishes, and ME dip are the one's I use or have used for pests. I also have the seachem dip but I primarily use that if the coral might have an infection. I am not a fan of bayer for safety reasons.

billyocean · Mar 11, 2023

Harmful bacteria can be introduced as well FWIW

ScottB · Mar 11, 2023

Depends on the SPS type and the associated pest. I'll guess you mean acropora that are commonly infested with AEFW. The best dip for that is potassium chloride 1+ tablespoon per gallon tank water. Certain parasitic pods are also a possibility. @sculpin01 can help you with a name for that critter and a suggested ivermectin dip (use with great care).

If you instead are talking about montipora then you are MENS (nudibranch) and any of the tea tree oil based dips will STUN them but NOT kill them. Vigorously brush the undersides.

In any case, I would saw off the base where eggs are commonly laid and are difficult to spot & remove.

Spare time · Mar 11, 2023

PS you can always make a coral QT out of any container (such as a bucket or rubber bin). It doesn't need a fancy light or glass tank. I am not sure if that helps but it is something to consider.

beesnreefs · Mar 11, 2023

Spare time said:
PS you can always make a coral QT out of any container (such as a bucket or rubber bin). It doesn't need a fancy light or glass tank. I am not sure if that helps but it is something to consider.

For maricultured acros, with the goal being to avoid introducing pests like AWFW, red bugs, etc…if dipping with Bayer/KCL, how long would you QT for after dipping?

Spare time · Mar 12, 2023

beesnreefs said:
For maricultured acros, with the goal being to avoid introducing pests like AWFW, red bugs, etc…if dipping with Bayer/KCL, how long would you QT for after dipping?

I think it is about 11 on average for the AE flatworm eggs to hatch and 35 days to mature (see link). I was just reading something about Dr G's coral dip as something to read up upon for red bugs. Surprisingly I have never come across red bugs (at least that I know of). Making sure to stir the water or have a some pump moving water around during a dip can help in removing them.

The Life Cycle of the Acropora Coral-Eating Flatworm (AEFW), Prosthiostomum acroporae; The Influence of Temperature and Management Guidelines

As coral aquaculture is increasing around the world for reef restoration and trade, mitigating the impact of coral predators, pathogens and parasites is necessary for optimal growth. The Acropora coral-eating flatworm (AEFW), Prosthiostomum acroporae (Platyhelminthes: Polycladida...

www.frontiersin.org

bradreef · Mar 12, 2023

If you cant qt( i dont for coral), i would use bayer, another general dip. ( i use coral rx). They remove as much plug/ base as you can. Inspect the corals thoroughly.

Hurricane Aquatics · Mar 12, 2023

I've bought about 8 Maricultured Acropora from Biota. I can tell you how I dip below.

I will tell you this, about every Acropora I purchased from Biota has a lot of pests. AEFW, bristle worms, asterina stars, aiptasia, the gamut!

When mine come in, I acclimate to the water temp. I then use three clear Tupperware type bowls. First, I dip in Coral RX. This seems to be the most powerful of the dips. Only leave in there for 5 or so min. Second, I dip using Revive Coral dip. I find revive to be mild and easy on the corals, but does remove pests. Third, I dip in Lugol's Iodine for about 10 to15 min.

Some of them will lose about all their color if they are stressed. It will come back, but it takes a while and a very good system.

I actually just bought one yesterday from Biota. Here are some of the others. I usually cut the frag off them too as they use cement of some sort and it seems to leech nutrients from the colony. As you can see, sometimes I leave them if they are clear plugs or seem ok. What you don't see is they shape some of these arrived in.
I have had to bring about 2/3 back from skeletons. Don't let that scare you though, if you have a good system with good lighting, flow, PH, etc you'll do fine.

I snapped these today using my phone. I'm not a photographer or do I edit any pics haha. I'm not that patient.

beesnreefs · Mar 12, 2023

Hurricane Aquatics said:
I've bought about 8 Maricultured Acropora from Biota. I can tell you how I dip below.

I will tell you this, about every Acropora I purchased from Biota has a lot of pests. AEFW, bristle worms, asterina stars, aiptasia, the gamut!

When mine come in, I acclimate to the water temp. I then use three clear Tupperware type bowls. First, I dip in Coral RX. This seems to be the most powerful of the dips. Only leave in there for 5 or so min. Second, I dip using Revive Coral dip. I find revive to be mild and easy on the corals, but does remove pests. Third, I dip in Lugol's Iodine for about 10 to15 min.

Some of them will lose about all their color if they are stressed. It will come back, but it takes a while and a very good system.

I actually just bought one yesterday from Biota. Here are some of the others. I usually cut the frag off them too as they use cement of some sort and it seems to leech nutrients from the colony. As you can see, sometimes I leave them if they are clear plugs or seem ok. What you don't see is they shape some of these arrived in.
I have had to bring about 2/3 back from skeletons. Don't let that scare you though, if you have a good system with good lighting, flow, PH, etc you'll do fine.

I snapped these today using my phone. I'm not a photographer or do I edit any pics haha. I'm not that patient.

View attachment 3059701 View attachment 3059702 View attachment 3059703 View attachment 3059704 View attachment 3059705

Wow, thank you for the very detailed post!

So you’re not even using Bayer or KCL and still you’re able to get all the pests off. That’s great!

Hurricane Aquatics · Mar 12, 2023

beesnreefs said:
Wow, thank you for the very detailed post!

So you’re not even using Bayer or KCL and still you’re able to get all the pests off. That’s great!

No, never used Bayer. I also cut the plug off most of them. That's mainly where everything else comes from besides AEFW.

Coral RX seems to rid the Acros of most pests. Be sure to look at the Coral before dipping as some come with acropora crabs and you don't want to kill those. You can remove them gently before dipping then put them back in.

beesnreefs · Mar 12, 2023

Hurricane Aquatics said:
No, never used Bayer. I also cut the plug off most of them. That's mainly where everything else comes from besides AEFW.

Coral RX seems to rid the Acros of most pests. Be sure to look at the Coral before dipping as some come with acropora crabs and you don't want to kill those. You can remove them gently before dipping then put them back in.

Can’t say enough how much I appreciate you sharing your experience. Gives me a lot more confidence to try a Biota acro colony

What’s the best way to gently remove an acro crab before dipping the coral?

Hurricane Aquatics · Mar 12, 2023

beesnreefs said:
Can’t say enough how much I appreciate you sharing your experience. Gives me a lot more confidence to try a Biota acro colony

What’s the best way to gently remove an acro crab before dipping the coral?

Glad to help, if you have anymore questions just let me know.

I like to get some tank water in a Tupperware bowl, the clear and cheap kind you can get at the dollar store and you can get them a bit deeper, and turn the Acro upside down holding by the plug and swish it gently. Sometimes that doesn't do it and you and use a turkey blaster to blow them off. Again, take your time as they are small and fragile.

Every time I get them from Biota, they are pale, the Acros that is. Their lighting isn't the best at their facility. They have Radion Gen 4s, but they have like 2 hung over a 10 foot long basin. So when you get it and dip it, put it on the sandbed for a few days and after that you can mount it where you want it. Just don't get discouraged as it takes them a while sometimes to color up and look good. Other times they come in fine. Just depends on how they make it through shipping.

If you want to send me some pics when you receive it and take it out of the bag, I would be glad to tell you how it looks. I'm not discreting your abilities so don't think that. Just offering some help as Maricultured can be very hard to keep.

beesnreefs · Mar 12, 2023

Hurricane Aquatics said:
Glad to help, if you have anymore questions just let me know.

I like to get some tank water in a Tupperware bowl, the clear and cheap kind you can get at the dollar store and you can get them a bit deeper, and turn the Acro upside down holding by the plug and swish it gently. Sometimes that doesn't do it and you and use a turkey blaster to blow them off. Again, take your time as they are small and fragile.

Every time I get them from Biota, they are pale, the Acros that is. Their lighting isn't the best at their facility. They have Radion Gen 4s, but they have like 2 hung over a 10 foot long basin. So when you get it and dip it, put it on the sandbed for a few days and after that you can mount it where you want it. Just don't get discouraged as it takes them a while sometimes to color up and look good. Other times they come in fine. Just depends on how they make it through shipping.

If you want to send me some pics when you receive it and take it out of the bag, I would be glad to tell you how it looks. I'm not discreting your abilities so don't think that. Just offering some help as Maricultured can be very hard to keep.

Seeiousky @Hurricane Aquatics, you are exactly what makes R2R such a great resource. Thanks! If I end up pulling the trigger I’ll definitely keep you posted and share pics

My LFS got some mariculture Indo colonies a few months ago. This colony sat at the shop after being dipped and cleaned and acclimated for over two months before I brought it home.

If you look closely you’ll see the acro crab it came with. Been in our system about a month and seems to be doing great. It’s awesome being able to put a mini colony in the tank instead of a 1 inch frag. Hard to resist the Biota colonies.

I’m thinking about getting one of these to help with the dips/inspection: https://reefbuilders.com/2023/03/09...ing-container-is-an-evolved-vessel-for-pests/

Hurricane Aquatics · Mar 12, 2023

Thank you, I appreciate your kind words.

That's a beautiful green tenuis! I have a couple of those as well. I had a really green one like yours that died. I couldn't save that one it was really bad off when I got it.

Here's something to describe what I mean about sometimes they come in rough. Haha, follow along with the titles above the pics and you will see how they will come back if you know what you're doing.

Here is the picture from their site when I purchased it, lol.... notice it's a top down shot, which is fine and usually shows better color, etc. I thought "Great! A rainbow version!"

Here is what it looked like out of the bag when I received it.

It actually looked worse than that photo as it was about 80% skeleton. That photo was about 4 weeks ago I think when I bought it.

This is it as of yesterday. Might be hard to tell, but it's made a drastic recovery. You'll see the expelled zooxanthellae and dinoflagelates on some of the Acro still. That's fine, those will go away and healthy Acropora polyps will make their way back.

This is a front shot and a top down. I'm using a cell phone and I am NOT a pro photographer, lol. These are true colors. Notice in the first front shot below, look at the polyps extending a bit and also you can see them inside the skeleton. It's getting there. Second is top down.

Now most would have tossed that and said it was dead. I've only lost one Maricultured that I described above that looked like yours and I had to frag a larger colony I received from Biota as it was not going to make it.

Ok a couple more. First Pic is what they advertised, second Pic is when I received it (pretty much dead), third and fourth Pic is after 3 months and I fragged the dying colony onto two parts and removed that stupid concrete base it comes with.

You'll notice in the last Pic, look at the base. You'll see it still badly dark brown looking dead. That whole smaller frag looked like that when I put it in. The natural green color took over and has kept replacing the dark brown dead spots and that's been 3 months.

Yeah, I'm a proud papa

beesnreefs · Mar 12, 2023

Hurricane Aquatics said:
Thank you, I appreciate your kind words.

That's a beautiful green tenuis! I have a couple of those as well. I had a really green one like yours that died. I couldn't save that one it was really bad off when I got it.

Here's something to describe what I mean about sometimes they come in rough. Haha, follow along with the titles above the pics and you will see how they will come back if you know what you're doing.

Here is the picture from their site when I purchased it, lol.... notice it's a top down shot, which is fine and usually shows better color, etc. I thought "Great! A rainbow version!"

View attachment 3060235

Here is what it looked like out of the bag when I received it.

View attachment 3060236

It actually looked worse than that photo as it was about 80% skeleton. That photo was about 4 weeks ago I think when I bought it.

This is it as of yesterday. Might be hard to tell, but it's made a drastic recovery. You'll see the expelled zooxanthellae and dinoflagelates on some of the Acro still. That's fine, those will go away and healthy Acropora polyps will make their way back.

This is a front shot and a top down. I'm using a cell phone and I am NOT a pro photographer, lol. These are true colors. Notice in the first front shot below, look at the polyps extending a bit and also you can see them inside the skeleton. It's getting there. Second is top down.

View attachment 3060237

View attachment 3060238

Now most would have tossed that and said it was dead. I've only lost one Maricultured that I described above that looked like yours and I had to frag a larger colony I received from Biota as it was not going to make it.

Ok a couple more. First Pic is what they advertised, second Pic is when I received it (pretty much dead), third and fourth Pic is after 3 months and I fragged the dying colony onto two parts and removed that stupid concrete base it comes with.

View attachment 3060268

View attachment 3060270

View attachment 3060272

View attachment 3060275

You'll notice in the last Pic, look at the base. You'll see it still badly dark brown looking dead. That whole smaller frag looked like that when I put it in. The natural green color took over and has kept replacing the dark brown dead spots and that's been 3 months.

Yeah, I'm a proud papa

Wow. Nice work! You should be a proud papa!!

Biota_Marine · Mar 30, 2023

Hey y'all thanks for the interest in these colonies and all the great information. A special thanks for the photos @Hurricane Aquatics . I agree with everything said above but I do want to echo to remove the good acro crabs prior to dipping. At our facility we use zip ties to get them out of the colonies before we dip the corals and put them back afterwards. We also do manual inspections to ensure there aren't any bad crabs in there but as you can imagine with hundreds of colonies some might slip through the cracks.

We moved to the GNC lights for most of our acros which seem to make the best difference in keeping the coloration and health of the corals.

Thanks for the support on these corals the interest has been awesome and has allowed us to bring even cooler items in. We should have some Palau mariculture pieces relatively soon as well to bring some entirely new strains to the hobby.

Hurricane Aquatics · Mar 30, 2023

Biota_Marine said:
Hey y'all thanks for the interest in these colonies and all the great information. A special thanks for the photos @Hurricane Aquatics . I agree with everything said above but I do want to echo to remove the good acro crabs prior to dipping. At our facility we use zip ties to get them out of the colonies before we dip the corals and put them back afterwards. We also do manual inspections to ensure there aren't any bad crabs in there but as you can imagine with hundreds of colonies some might slip through the cracks.

We moved to the GNC lights for most of our acros which seem to make the best difference in keeping the coloration and health of the corals.

Thanks for the support on these corals the interest has been awesome and has allowed us to bring even cooler items in. We should have some Palau mariculture pieces relatively soon as well to bring some entirely new strains to the hobby.

@Biota_Marine Great to hear the Acropora corals are doing well for you and hopefully we'll see even more coming up for the sales page. Glad to hear on the lights as well. You have a great program going at Biota and a great staff. Felicia knows me well

beesnreefs · Apr 25, 2023

Thanks to the wonderful insight and advice from Jake at @Biota_Marine and @Hurricane Aquatics, I pulled the trigger and ordered two small acro colonies (including one that appears to have a cute little tetralia acro crab in it!).

Can't wait for this guy and this guy to show up next week.

Based on @Hurricane Aquatics advice, I also ordered a Simplicity Coral Dipping Container with the built-in magnifier, and bottles of Lugol's, Coral RX, and Revive. I plan to gently remove the acro crab and set him aside somewhere safe, cut the colonies off their rocks/plugs, dip, and return the acro crab.

Two questions:

@Biota_Marine mentioned using a zip tie to remove the acro crab. Do I just nudge him into walking onto it? What's the best way to safely and gently get him out of the acro colony for the dips?
When I set the acro crab aside, can I just place him in a small container of salt water? Or is there something else I should do to keep him safe while I dip the corals?

Hurricane Aquatics · Apr 25, 2023

beesnreefs said:
Thanks to the wonderful insight and advice from Jake at @Biota_Marine and @Hurricane Aquatics, I pulled the trigger and ordered two small acro colonies (including one that appears to have a cute little tetralia acro crab in it!).

Can't wait for this guy and this guy to show up next week.

Based on @Hurricane Aquatics advice, I also ordered a Simplicity Coral Dipping Container with the built-in magnifier, and bottles of Lugol's, Coral RX, and Revive. I plan to gently remove the acro crab and set him aside somewhere safe, cut the colonies off their rocks/plugs, dip, and return the acro crab.

Two questions:

@Biota_Marine mentioned using a zip tie to remove the acro crab. Do I just nudge him into walking onto it? What's the best way to safely and gently get him out of the acro colony for the dips?

When I set the acro crab aside, can I just place him in a small container of salt water? Or is there something else I should do to keep him safe while I dip the corals?

That's great news! Those are two very nice pieces that you chose. Give them about 3 months and you won't know they are the same Acros. They are always a bit pale and will be more pale when you receive them. They color up really nicely and those are going to be two GREAT ones!

Yes, you can use a zip tie or a skewer bamboo stick like you would cook pieces of meat with (what I use). Or just something that you can be accurate with and isn't too big. Like these:

I find it best to put the coral in a large bowl or Tupperware of your tank water. Then you will have to look closely for some of them as they can be super small. Some are larger and you'll see them no problem. Then just put him in a separate small container of your tank water until you are finished dipping the Acros.

Once you're finished with the dip, make sure you rinse the coral good in another bowl of your tank water. Then, I try to put the Acro in the same water as the crab and tilt it so I can nudge him back on it. You will also want to watch your dip water very closely as sometimes you miss another crab and he will fall off in the dip. If you can scoop him out fast enough and put him in the separate bowl of your tank water, then they usually recover just fine. Now, getting him out of the dip water is a bit hard sometimes. I usually try to stick my finger or something in and gently get them to either climb on or scoop them up.

Depending on your dip, I wouldn't dip for any longer than 5 minutes. They just went through a lot in shipping and you don't want to stress them anymore than necessary. I usually let them come to temp in a bowl of my tank water and then after a bit, dip. It's good to swish them around a bit and use a turkey baster or similar to blow them off while they are in the dip.

Things you might see in the dip:

Acro crabs - that you didn't see before the dip. Again just get them out as quickly as possible.
Bristle worms - I would never put these in my tank and death is good for them.
Pods - I received one acro that had what looked like 5000 pods come off of it. Again, this is good as you don't know if they are good or not.
Flat Worms - Almost a guarantee as every one that I have ordered had flat worms. The dip has killed all of them for me. Always good to have a yellow or six line wrasse for potential clean up later.
Snails - If you get a snail that is in the bottom of the bag or on the mounting disk, etc. Toss it. I forget the name of the snail, but I've received more than a few in the bag that are not good and you don't want them.
Late addition that I thought of: Asterina Starfish. I've received a few of those. I never had an issue with these in my tank when I had them. I would let them populate like crazy and then throw a Harlequin Shrimp in and watch the bodies hit the floor!! Haha, a Harlequin can decimate a million of those things in 2 weeks it seems.

I might have seen more come off, but I can't recall right now. Bottom line, if it isn't an acro crab or the Acro itself, kill it.

Take pics of the Acros as soon as you get them while they are in the opened bags preferably. Sometimes they don't ship well and will be far gone by the time you get it. That has happened to me a couple of times, but it isn't the norm. Biota has always been excellent at taking care of any issues and that's why I continue to buy from them.

This is a long post, but I would like for you to be comfortable and successful! The dip you have is exactly what I use. I think I posted my routine earlier, but if you need help or have questions, just let me know.