Bare bottom reef tank better?
- Thread starter Nick Barbier
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Nick Barbier
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I've decided to go BB. Not looking forward to taking everything out to get to all the 1" - 2 " sand bed. Especially behind the two 35 lb pieces of live rock on the bottom of the tank.
Nick Barbier
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The sand bed is 9 years old. There's no telling what kind of nasty stuff is in it.
krollins
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There might be some bad stuff in the sand but there could be good stuff too.
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My Melanurus Wrasse, Orange spotted goby, and sand sifting starfish wouldn't appreciate it. I'll go barebottom when the oceans go barebottom.
TehBrainz
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Just curious how imbalanced trace elements would occur over a long serviced tank. Assuming proper husbandry has been taken on the tank, shouldn't these get replenished with water changes? Is a trend of imbalanced trace elements over time something that could pop on routine ICP tests?
strich
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I think you're risking a crash doing this. I would recommend removing the sand bit by bit over weeks if you're going through with it.
Js.Aqua.Project
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You can test for the three main Trace elements - Iodine, Potassium, and Iron - at home and keep those steady. Silicate is also available for home testing and can boost sponge health and growth. These are all them dosed according to their test results.
Minor trace elements beyond that I believe for now need to be tested via ICP but should always be taken with a grain of salt (no pun intended) as accuracy can vary.
Unless you are doing frequent massive water changes you cannot maintain these at proper levels via water changes alone and will end up dosing. That is where in my head it makes more sense to stop doing water changes and control through dosing and good general husbandry.
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Obviously not the same, but similar, I converted my 125 fresh from Gravel to sand, as it's much better and cleaner, as Gravel is just a giant poop trap. I removed a quarter section of the Gravel every 3 days, Obviously after vacuuming it, then added clean Arag-Alive to those sections...so as not to make the tank go crazy, worked perfectly and by the end of the week, I was all sand, no Gravel and no interruptions in the tank.
I like sand, I love the BB esthetics too, but it's not natural imho..so I implement lots of cucs, sand Sifting fish etc on my saltwater tanks, and they look great now.
All my tanks are BB, except the Haddoni tank, which these guys need sand. For the new build, I’m planning to have sand containers so the carpet nems will find home.
For me — no sand, unless absolutely need it!
For me — no sand, unless absolutely need it!
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Nick Barbier
Active Member
I am taking all the fish, corals, rocks and water out and placing them in totes with powerheads before disturbing or removing any of the sand. I just did this with my 75g mixed reef and everything survived and is doing fine. The only difference is that I replaced the old Carib Sea live sand with new Carib Sea live sand in that tank.
Nick Barbier
Active Member
I dose Oceans Blend two part which has all the required trace elements along with Alk, Ca & Mg of course. I've been using OB to dose for over 25 years with excellent results. In my opinion, I find that dosing works for a more stable tank instead of frequent water changes.
Nick Barbier
Active Member
Two weeks ago, I replaced the old Carib Sea live sand in my 75g mixed reef, putting everything in totes 1st of course. I put new Carib Sea live sand in that tank. But I decided to try a bare bottom approach in my 125g, using the same method of removal. I've been wanting a BB tank for many years. This way, I can monitor both the 75g with sand and the 125g without sand for stability.
I've removed sand before -- just suck them out a section at a time while doing a WC. This is much easier and safer IME. Curious why need to remove all the inhabitants as part of sand removal?
javajaws
Active Member
On my previous two tanks one was BB and the other sand ~1.5". The BB was definitely more successful, most likely due to me not maintaining my sand bed enough in the one with sand. They were both started with live rock though (the real stuff direct from Fiji back in the day).
I'm re-starting a tank now (many many years later) and it seems I'll be better off with mostly dry rock at least as far as aquascaping goes. I suppose a small order or TBS rock for the sump would help but I'm really concerned about trying to start off a new tank with dry rock without sand. Read enough nightmares of BB dry rocks tank startups to give me nightmares. I could always add sand at the start to help out the first year then pull it out down the road (doesn't worry me too much to remove a shallow bed). I plan on keeping most of the rocks off the bottom anyway.
I'm re-starting a tank now (many many years later) and it seems I'll be better off with mostly dry rock at least as far as aquascaping goes. I suppose a small order or TBS rock for the sump would help but I'm really concerned about trying to start off a new tank with dry rock without sand. Read enough nightmares of BB dry rocks tank startups to give me nightmares. I could always add sand at the start to help out the first year then pull it out down the road (doesn't worry me too much to remove a shallow bed). I plan on keeping most of the rocks off the bottom anyway.
Nick Barbier
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The sand bed is 9 years old. I don't want to take the chance of releasing toxic hydrogen sulfide into the tank and killing the inhabitants. I feel it's safer to remove all fish, corals and rocks and putting them in totes with powerheads before taking out the sand.
that's true. here's sixty pages of that work being done. on page one is some loss examples from not doing that.
www.reef2reef.com
we get the perfect results the rest of the jobs due to separation removal surgery. hundreds of jobs. even though it's hard work compared to vacuuming you don't want to wind up like the loss examples.
why there is this distinction: what works in our reefs is not what works for the masses. that's why you haven't been warned about tank wipeouts here yet, nobody sees those at home so in-tank removal seems safe.
where we would start seeing lots of loss is if someone makes a work thread inviting sandbed removal jobs from others, and then tries to guide them through in-tank removals. among several successes using that method, a few total devastation wipeouts will happen, that's how I find my page one warning examples.
Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread
If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...
www.reef2reef.com
we get the perfect results the rest of the jobs due to separation removal surgery. hundreds of jobs. even though it's hard work compared to vacuuming you don't want to wind up like the loss examples.
why there is this distinction: what works in our reefs is not what works for the masses. that's why you haven't been warned about tank wipeouts here yet, nobody sees those at home so in-tank removal seems safe.
where we would start seeing lots of loss is if someone makes a work thread inviting sandbed removal jobs from others, and then tries to guide them through in-tank removals. among several successes using that method, a few total devastation wipeouts will happen, that's how I find my page one warning examples.
it's not that bare bottom is better, it's that its safer by a giant margin.
no special work thread is needed for tank transfers that are just live rocks moving among tanks
all that specialty work in effect there is me designing sandbed access jobs so that nobody's tank dies. a zero percent loss rate is the only acceptable one.
no special work thread is needed for tank transfers that are just live rocks moving among tanks
all that specialty work in effect there is me designing sandbed access jobs so that nobody's tank dies. a zero percent loss rate is the only acceptable one.
strich
Active Member
You say that but we surely have to wonder how many losses here and there that might seem "random" or without reason are actually due to lack of ecosystem buffering that sand helps provide.
Nah. I did bare bottom 20 years ago, no problem. Tanks are not the ocean, flushed by a load of new water every few seconds.
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