At what point would you consider Hydros as good as Apex?

[areefer01]

I was recently at my local LFS for a quarterly club meetup and the presenter was really confident that Apex was by and far the best aquarium controller and other controllers just were still to far off to really be even considered competition at this point. I've seen this view expressed elsewhere as well. As a fairly new Hydros owner myself I wanted to see what you guys think it's missing that really hurts the functionality? Trident testing is an obvious one but what other things would CoralVue need to do to change this and is it even a true sentiment to begin with or just people that like what they know? Hell even BRS seems to push the Apex in every video with the controllers displayed lovingly in the background of 90% of their videos without a poor hydros in sight (though I am will to chalk this up to them just using what they already have setup)

Anyone who made the switch between the two (or really any other controller) willing to chime in?

As I am typing this I also have an ad for an Apex EL flashing on top of the forum, they know we are talking about them

It is a personal preference. A choice. Onus is on the hobbyist to decide what works best for their installation. Any hobbyist who says otherwise is providing their opinion.

 

[n2585722]

I've been on the Apex bandwagon for years but I'm getting more and more frustrated on how poorly built their products are. I've been thinking about switching to something else for awhile now.

I have quite a bit about my Hydros system if you click on my tank thread banner and go to page 7. There is one other post before that page but it is only photos of what I purchased. I have it controlling my heaters, cooling fans, lighting, skimmer at the tank. The rest is in the garage 35ft from the tank. I have my ATO pump, AWC pumps and RODI unit along with my mixing station in the garage. It is all controlled using my Hydros system. It will automatically refill the DI reservoir when it goes low. If the Fresh saltwater reservoir goes low it will refill it from the mix tank if the mix tank is ready. After it transfer the water from the mix tank to the fresh saltwater tank it will refill the mix tank with DI water. All I have to do is add the salt mix to the mix tank and press a button when it is ready to use again. I did have the All For Reef dosing in the garage but I moved it in with the things at the tank and added a KH buffer dosing. My Hydros get the alkalinity data from my KH Carer and uses the data to dynamically dose both the All For Reef and KH buffer. As new features have come out I have updated my tank thread with the changes I made to take advantage of the new features, Hope this helps if you have never seen the app screenshots and how things get setup on the Hydros.

 

[CoralB]

I was recently at my local LFS for a quarterly club meetup and the presenter was really confident that Apex was by and far the best aquarium controller and other controllers just were still to far off to really be even considered competition at this point. I've seen this view expressed elsewhere as well. As a fairly new Hydros owner myself I wanted to see what you guys think it's missing that really hurts the functionality? Trident testing is an obvious one but what other things would CoralVue need to do to change this and is it even a true sentiment to begin with or just people that like what they know? Hell even BRS seems to push the Apex in every video with the controllers displayed lovingly in the background of 90% of their videos without a poor hydros in sight (though I am will to chalk this up to them just using what they already have setup)

Anyone who made the switch between the two (or really any other controller) willing to chime in?

As I am typing this I also have an ad for an Apex EL flashing on top of the forum, they know we are talking about them

Money , it’s all about money and having trident

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I have quite a bit about my Hydros system if you click on my tank thread banner and go to page 7. There is one other post before that page but it is only photos of what I purchased. I have it controlling my heaters, cooling fans, lighting, skimmer at the tank. The rest is in the garage 35ft from the tank. I have my ATO pump, AWC pumps and RODI unit along with my mixing station in the garage. It is all controlled using my Hydros system. It will automatically refill the DI reservoir when it goes low. If the Fresh saltwater reservoir goes low it will refill it from the mix tank if the mix tank is ready. After it transfer the water from the mix tank to the fresh saltwater tank it will refill the mix tank with DI water. All I have to do is add the salt mix to the mix tank and press a button when it is ready to use again. I did have the All For Reef dosing in the garage but I moved it in with the things at the tank and added a KH buffer dosing. My Hydros get the alkalinity data from my KH Carer and uses the data to dynamically dose both the All For Reef and KH buffer. As new features have come out I have updated my tank thread with the changes I made to take advantage of the new features, Hope this helps if you have never seen the app screenshots and how things get setup on the Hydros.

You're using it as a basic controller. Nothing special that any other controller can't do. Makes me wish that I held onto a hydros a little longer. But it's still in its infancy compared to the others.

I'll give it to coralvue that the entry cost of hydros opens it up to people that wouldn't necessarily afford one.

 

[Aquarist76]

I have quite a bit about my Hydros system if you click on my tank thread banner and go to page 7. There is one other post before that page but it is only photos of what I purchased. I have it controlling my heaters, cooling fans, lighting, skimmer at the tank. The rest is in the garage 35ft from the tank. I have my ATO pump, AWC pumps and RODI unit along with my mixing station in the garage. It is all controlled using my Hydros system. It will automatically refill the DI reservoir when it goes low. If the Fresh saltwater reservoir goes low it will refill it from the mix tank if the mix tank is ready. After it transfer the water from the mix tank to the fresh saltwater tank it will refill the mix tank with DI water. All I have to do is add the salt mix to the mix tank and press a button when it is ready to use again. I did have the All For Reef dosing in the garage but I moved it in with the things at the tank and added a KH buffer dosing. My Hydros get the alkalinity data from my KH Carer and uses the data to dynamically dose both the All For Reef and KH buffer. As new features have come out I have updated my tank thread with the changes I made to take advantage of the new features, Hope this helps if you have never seen the app screenshots and how things get setup on the Hydros.

As a basic controller the Apex mostly works (when it reads accurately which it often doesn't even after probe calibration). The big problem I have with Apex is I've had countless EB832s either go bad or be bad out of the box, of the two WAV I got one failed within a year, problems with multiple Tridents, problems with multiple DOS, couldn't get their PAR probe to work properly, problems with multiple FMM modules not detecting what's hooked up to them, etc, etc. It seems like anything they build is poor quality and doesn't last or even work sometimes. Right now I have a stack of old equipment of theirs that's out of warranty and doesn't work. I've bought 5 of their V2 systems and one V3; the main modules work but everything else is suspect.

I just don't know if there's a better option yet. I'm hopeful for the Hydros though. I could really care less if Neptune doesn't ever announce and new expansions ever again; get the stuff you already make to work properly!!!!

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

As a basic controller the Apex mostly works (when it reads accurately which it often doesn't even after probe calibration). The big problem I have with Apex is I've had countless EB832s either go bad or be bad out of the box, of the two WAV I got one failed within a year, problems with multiple Tridents, problems with multiple DOS, couldn't get their PAR probe to work properly, problems with multiple FMM modules not detecting what's hooked up to them, etc, etc. It seems like anything they build is poor quality and doesn't last or even work sometimes. Right now I have a stack of old equipment of theirs that's out of warranty and doesn't work. I've bought 5 of their V2 systems and one V3; the main modules work but everything else is suspect.

I just don't know if there's a better option yet. I'm hopeful for the Hydros though. I could really care less if Neptune doesn't ever announce and new expansions ever again; get the stuff you already make to work properly!!!!

You're not the only one to experience this. Most of Neptune peripherals are subpar. None of their pumps were close to top of the list for me. I'm hoping with the merging of companies that complement each other, we'll see an improvement on this front.

 

[JHSteepat]

Here’s a data point from a person (consumer) who just went with Hydros last week. I waffled a lot on this, but decided as follows…..

I really liked the Apex/Trident/DOS/WAV solution, on paper, but all I see from Apex peripherals, and even the basic system, is sketchy reliability. Went with Hydros Waveengine with octopulses and the XP8 controller/powerstrip and found an X3 system used that will monitor the heater, sump level, and pH, and will run a Versa for kalk. I may add a second versa for Mg, but that is not necessary right now.

None of these are perfect, but it was the best solution for me, in my mind, because I never saw that Apex was visibly doing much in terms of QC for WAV (also were unavailable), and got tired of sorting out if the Apex powerstrips were truly improved. “New updated models with even better reliability” would have been nice, but I’m done waiting.

I’ll use hanna/salifert kits to monitor Alk/Ca/Mg/PO4/NO3 until I am satisfied there is a robust system for at least Alk. Trident was the only Apex peripheral I will miss for being outside the Hydros sphere, but I have a new tank, so lets see where things are a year from now.

I am running the used X3 solidly on a 2.4gHz WAP plugged into my Orbi router. Setup was easy and everything seems to be working fine, and I don’t really know what I’m doing yet.

I would REALLY love to see Sicce (my return pump and one powerhead) work with Hydros…….but they don’t. Because Sicce’s ContrAll is a good app and I can plug them into the Hydros powerstrips, I have a good, but not perfect solution.

I’ve got nothing to say regarding controlling the Versa, except I don’t need access to control very often, and can auto-disable by plugging into Hydros powerstrip if pH gets too high.

Again, not perfect, but fine for me.

 

[StatelineReefer]

In two weeks the X10 (combined doser and control head) ships, according to the Coralvue team. That could be a game changer for me, bringing me to a fully Hydros ecosystem.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

The problem with not controlling versa is that it's capable of so much more, and not being able to have it act smartly based on an input is keeping its wings clipped. I want it to do more than just turn on or off based on the state of an input. I want it to adjust speed while monitoring multiple inputs.

 

[doubleshot00]

IMO they are both just as good and just as bad. Neptune has more used stuff on the market that is why i choose them. You can get a EL for around $300. Also more used stuff for sale in the R2R Market. The support is a little better to imo. The quality lately is what's been bothering me. Why i have a backup Apex just sitting on the self ready to go.

 

[Acros]

The problem with not controlling versa is that it's capable of so much more, and not being able to have it act smartly based on an input is keeping its wings clipped. I want it to do more than just turn on or off based on the state of an input. I want it to adjust speed while monitoring multiple inputs.

I read multiple reports on r2r stating that the Versa pumps struggle with variable dosing speeds. They are better run at a single speed. Something about having periods with different speeds causing memory error...

I run mine at a constant speed.

 

[doubleshot00]

No. It is one of the MANY swing and misses with that release. They said "maybe in the future"

I think it would cannibalize sales from the DOS if Apex could control the Versa. Especially Trident controlled dosing.

The MXM is a complete miss imo. Maybe if you use Radions and already hate the mobius app. But i returned my MXM without even taking it out of the box. I was so hopeful it was going to do everything the mobius app does. Was defiantly let down.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I read multiple reports on r2r stating that the Versa pumps struggle with variable dosing speeds. They are better run at a single speed. Something about having periods with different speeds causing memory error...

I run mine at a constant speed.

Yep, I wrote about it in great detail in quite a few locations, but that's a cause and affect from the way a user is forced to program the pump to achieve multiple speeds. This isn't necessarily a hardware issue and can easily be changed via firmware.

 

[n2585722]

You're using it as a basic controller. Nothing special that any other controller can't do. Makes me wish that I held onto a hydros a little longer. But it's still in its infancy compared to the others.

I'll give it to coralvue that the entry cost of hydros opens it up to people that wouldn't necessarily afford one.

It may just be me but I don't consider controlling my RODI and mixing station basic controller functions. It will auto refill my DI reservoir from the RODI as long as the TDS is below 2. If my fresh saltwater reservoir goes low it controls the transfer from my mix tank to the fresh saltwater tank if the contents of the mix tank is ready to use. Once the transfer is complete it clears the ready to use flag and refill the mix tank from the RODI. It has complete control of the RODI unit by also doing the flush sequences. It also turn it on every 4 hours to refill the RO bladder tank for the fridge. All I have to do is add the salt mix and press a button to set the mix tank ready flag when the mix tank is ready to use. On each of the three storage tank there is a water level sensor that reads back the amount remaining in each of the tanks in percentage on my Hydros. Below is a screenshot of the inputs for the items in the garage. I also do dynamic dosing of All For Reef and KH buffer using data imported from my KH Carer to the Hydros. The data is automatically imported to the Hydros after the testing is completed. I also do ATO and AWC using the Hydros.

 

[themcnertney]

Ditch controllers altogether and make reefing simple again.

 

[n2585722]

Here’s a data point from a person (consumer) who just went with Hydros last week. I waffled a lot on this, but decided as follows…..

I really liked the Apex/Trident/DOS/WAV solution, on paper, but all I see from Apex peripherals, and even the basic system, is sketchy reliability. Went with Hydros Waveengine with octopulses and the XP8 controller/powerstrip and found an X3 system used that will monitor the heater, sump level, and pH, and will run a Versa for kalk. I may add a second versa for Mg, but that is not necessary right now.

None of these are perfect, but it was the best solution for me, in my mind, because I never saw that Apex was visibly doing much in terms of QC for WAV (also were unavailable), and got tired of sorting out if the Apex powerstrips were truly improved. “New updated models with even better reliability” would have been nice, but I’m done waiting.

I’ll use hanna/salifert kits to monitor Alk/Ca/Mg/PO4/NO3 until I am satisfied there is a robust system for at least Alk. Trident was the only Apex peripheral I will miss for being outside the Hydros sphere, but I have a new tank, so lets see where things are a year from now.

I am running the used X3 solidly on a 2.4gHz WAP plugged into my Orbi router. Setup was easy and everything seems to be working fine, and I don’t really know what I’m doing yet.

I would REALLY love to see Sicce (my return pump and one powerhead) work with Hydros…….but they don’t. Because Sicce’s ContrAll is a good app and I can plug them into the Hydros powerstrips, I have a good, but not perfect solution.

I’ve got nothing to say regarding controlling the Versa, except I don’t need access to control very often, and can auto-disable by plugging into Hydros powerstrip if pH gets too high.

Again, not perfect, but fine for me.

I have quite a bit of information on my Hydros system in my tank thread starting on page 7 on. I post screenshots and explain what I am doing so if you are new to the Hydros it might help with setting things up for the first time. So far I have not found anything I wanted it to do that it cannot. Like you I use Hanna test weekly for most of the parameters other than pH, temp and alkalinity which are monitered using my Hydros. I still check the alkalinity with the Hanna when I am doing the other test once a week. Click on My Tank Thread banner in my post to get to my build thread.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

It may just be me but I don't consider controlling my RODI and mixing station basic controller functions. It will auto refill my DI reservoir from the RODI as long as the TDS is below 2. If my fresh saltwater reservoir goes low it controls the transfer from my mix tank to the fresh saltwater tank if the contents of the mix tank is ready to use. Once the transfer is complete it clears the ready to use flag and refill the mix tank from the RODI. It has complete control of the RODI unit by also doing the flush sequences. It also turn it on every 4 hours to refill the RO bladder tank for the fridge. All I have to do is add the salt mix and press a button to set the mix tank ready flag when the mix tank is ready to use. On each of the three storage tank there is a water level sensor that reads back the amount remaining in each of the tanks in percentage on my Hydros. Below is a screenshot of the inputs for the items in the garage. I also do dynamic dosing of All For Reef and KH buffer using data imported from my KH Carer to the Hydros. The data is automatically imported to the Hydros after the testing is completed. I also do ATO and AWC using the Hydros.

Maybe out of the wheelhouse of most new to the hobby. But what you're describing is scratching the surface for the capabilities of the other controllers. It may sound complicated to you, and I'm not denying that you're impressed with the amount of control you've achieved. But an apex hasn't even stretched its legs at this point.

Don't get me wrong I'm excited that you're exploring a new side of the hobby that is described as a "control freak". I think there are people that frown upon the level of control that you've given to your hydros and I think that's due to the lack of understanding how a controller can be beneficial and life saving if used correctly. I never shared people's claim that a controller is a negative thing. I think that some people are naive to how they can be beneficial and might have unrealistic expectations, but when you take thebtime to learn it's functionality and understand it's limitations you can be confident that it's going to work the way you prigrammed it.

 

[Aquarist76]

Ditch controllers altogether and make reefing simple again.

Controllers make things simpler IMO. There's so many things I've automated it's great. I kind of hope Red Sea comes out with their own controller.

 

[n2585722]

Maybe out of the wheelhouse of most new to the hobby. But what you're describing is scratching the surface for the capabilities of the other controllers. It may sound complicated to you, and I'm not denying that you're impressed with the amount of control you've achieved. But an apex hasn't even stretched its legs at this point.

Don't get me wrong I'm excited that you're exploring a new side of the hobby that is described as a "control freak". I think there are people that frown upon the level of control that you've given to your hydros and I think that's due to the lack of understanding how a controller can be beneficial and life saving if used correctly. I never shared people's claim that a controller is a negative thing. I think that some people are naive to how they can be beneficial and might have unrealistic expectations, but when you take thebtime to learn it's functionality and understand it's limitations you can be confident that it's going to work the way you prigrammed it.

Is there something specific you think it cannot do? There are lots of different ways to get alerts. Mine also controls my wife's globes, jelly fish lamps and light houses around the TV in the living room. They are set to come on at 6pm and stay on until 11pm. I decided to also use them for a different purpose since they were in the living room where we are most of the time when at home. The tank cannot be seen form there. There are different levels of alerts on The Hydros, There is none, yellow, orange and red. You can choose which alert is triggered when a input or output are out of the safe zones set. Some have more than one safe zone such as outputs which have a maximum on time and maximum off time you can set. Some also have wattage limits you can set. So I setup the light outputs so that only certain ones come on depending on the level of the alert. If all or off or on then everything is normal. If it is a yellow alert a single jelly fish lamp will be on and the others will be off. If it is an orange alert then the globes and jelly fish light will be on and the rest off. If it is a red alert the left side light houses, globes and jelly fish lights will be on and the rest off. If there is an alert or alerts the right side light houses will be off and one or more of the others will be on. I know this is not a big deal since I get alerts on my iPad and phone for any alerts anyway. The first photo below is with no alerts and lighting not on at the time. The second photo is a yellow alert. The third is a orange alert. The forth photo is a red alert. The last photo is all the lights on which is normal. There is one light house that had a bad lamp when the photo was taken on the left side.

I can also post the settings of the outputs used to do this if anyone is interested.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I think it's cool that you're geeking out on your hydros. I would encourage you to compare what you're doing with any other controller... what you're describing is achievable with all the above. I'm not trying to convince you that you made the wrong choice, I'm simply pointing out that what you're geeking out over is what many people have been doing for 10+ years.

Is there something specific you think it cannot do?

Yes, I know that hydros can not send a 0-10v variable output based on input states. Not that they won't have this capability eventually because theyre using the community to help with ideas. But there seems to be a list of other things that have higher priority. Which indicates there are more things that the hydros can not do as well.

Keep up the outside the box thinking. And if you want to gain some more outside the box ideas, check out Neptune systems and ghl forums they're chalked full of things like your colored light warning system. But let me warn ya... you're going to be amazed!