At what point would you consider Hydros as good as Apex?

[massymas94]

I was recently at my local LFS for a quarterly club meetup and the presenter was really confident that Apex was by and far the best aquarium controller and other controllers just were still to far off to really be even considered competition at this point. I've seen this view expressed elsewhere as well. As a fairly new Hydros owner myself I wanted to see what you guys think it's missing that really hurts the functionality? Trident testing is an obvious one but what other things would CoralVue need to do to change this and is it even a true sentiment to begin with or just people that like what they know? Hell even BRS seems to push the Apex in every video with the controllers displayed lovingly in the background of 90% of their videos without a poor hydros in sight (though I am will to chalk this up to them just using what they already have setup)

Anyone who made the switch between the two (or really any other controller) willing to chime in?

As I am typing this I also have an ad for an Apex EL flashing on top of the forum, they know we are talking about them

 

[blaxsun]

BRS isn't exactly unbiased when it comes to Neptune (being a sister company). I do like my Neptune gear, but the level of QC in the equipment (defective SD cards being foremost in my mind) and overall QA by the company as a whole aren't great - something I think Hydros has done a better job with.

Neptune is great for "plug-and-play" when you don't need anything complex whereas Hydros probably offers a lot more customization/control while not being quite as user friendly.

 

[StatelineReefer]

Neptune is great for "plug-and-play" when you don't need anything complex whereas Hydros probably offers a lot more customization/control while not being quite as user friendly.

As a user of both I find they're equally customizable in the right hands. The Hydros merely lacks a customizable programming input, whereas I can tell my apex to do literally anything, even if it makes no sense in the order I program it.

The Trident is met by the Mastertronic on Hydros' end, and while it certainly proved problematic for me (I returned mine after a month of frustration) they are quite comparable it seems.

 

[Poochaku]

OPINION : Hydros is better for 90% of people imo. Top 9% of complex setups can use either depending on features required and the top 1% that requires highly customized coding should use apex or design their own system a la polo reef.

Hydros pseudo coding is more powerful than people give credit for.

 

[frydaddy]

I think hydros is better, ditched all my Neptune/Apex stuff 2 years ago and haven’t looked back. I find hydros significantly easier to program and have been able to do everything I need to do with it.

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

OPINION : Hydros is better for 90% of people imo. Top 9% of complex setups can use either depending on features required and the top 1% that requires highly customized coding should use apex or design their own system a la polo reef.

Hydros pseudo coding is more powerful than people give credit for.

This is very true. I felt super left out after getting my hydros and realizing I could use my coding skills on the apex, BUT after figuring out how to make logic outputs with combiners and using output device types incorrectly to gain a function, I actually can't really think of anything I would want to do I couldn't logic hydros into doing.

Still bummed I don't get to code, but i am getting everything out of it I will ever need. I also like the aesthetic far more than apex, so I will take that as I selected the correct one for me. Of course, I would have went full reefpi if I could have used afirm to buy everything.

 

[rtparty]

When the Hyrdros UI looks better than it does, I found it super ugly with very limited graphing options.

When they spend more than 10 minutes on design. It is just some Amazon project boxes with stickers on them. To be fair, Neptune needs a new design language as well IMO.

In less than a year of Hydros I went through 4 Wifi bars and 2 XP8s. All failed on me. Customer service was only good after I put them on blast in their own group. Before that I couldn't get any help. The pH function was also terrible. My halide ballasts messed with the readings and never gave me true numbers. Went back to Apex and not a single issue with the pH probe and halide ballasts. Again, CV customer service was clueless to help me.

Their Wifi connection was total crap as well. Always blamed my network. Yet, 40+ devices on my network don't have an issue. My Apex has disconnected once in 8 years. Hydros dropped 8-10 times a day every single day for a year.

Bring on the haters. LOL

Apex has their fair share of issues as well that need to be addressed IMO. No controller is great IMO. They all have their pros and cons.

 

[StatelineReefer]

When the Hyrdros UI looks better than it does, I found it super ugly with very limited graphing options.

CV customer service was clueless to help me.

Their Wifi connection was total crap as well. Always blamed my network. Yet, 40+ devices on my network don't have an issue. My Apex has disconnected once in 8 years. Hydros dropped 8-10 times a day every single day for a year.

Apex has their fair share of issues as well that need to be addressed IMO. No controller is great IMO. They all have their pros and cons.

These are all true things. I just put Hydros on a different router because all it's crosstalk EATS bandwidth, so if you have a collective, that's another thing to consider.

 

[massymas94]

Their Wifi connection was total crap as well. Always blamed my network. Yet, 40+ devices on my network don't have an issue. My Apex has disconnected once in 8 years. Hydros dropped 8-10 times a day every single day for a year.

So far I haven't had any connections drops but maybe thats a result of having the controllers mounted to the outside of the cabinet? idk I just like looking at the them haha. but I agree that would be super frustrating to deal with

Of course, I would have went full reefpi if I could have used afirm to buy everything.

I went ahead and created a reef-pi setup utilizing the Leviathan board and a buddies 3D printer. honestly it was pretty inexpensive (maybe $150 in total parts?) and a really fun project but lacks some the easy expandability of either Hydros or Apex. That being said if you know how to code it offers by far the most customization, Just good luck adding new sense ports if you want them or getting the enclosure to that IP65 rating of the Hydros. Either way, its a great foray into how these controllers work

 

[littlebigreef]

Hydros doesn’t bleed you for money and nickel and dime you every step of the way. I run two apex on my systems, when it’s time to replace them I’m gone and never going back.

 

[cwerner]

I only have experience with Hydros and it's been pretty great for me. Nothing has broken and the periphery equipment seems more reasonably priced than the Apex stuff. I also prefer the Hydros Collective design and the fact that you can get Wifi power strips very cheaply. The downsides are that there is no RJ-45 port (seriously they have so much room for one on either the XP8 or their larger controllers) and this would also eliminate the Wifi issues that Hydros seems to have with many users. I use a Mesh wifi system and it is a non-starter for their wifi protocols they use with Hydros. I'm in IT so it's very simple for me to simply spin up a single endpoint 2.4 GHz wireless network exclusively for Hydros, but this would be really difficult and require additional purchases for the average users.

Neptune systems just seem extremely expensive for what they are considering that you don't get 'Smart' modules with each purchase, just something that has to be hardwired to the main controller. However Neptune is now getting integration with Mobius equipment, which is a big bonus depending on what equipment you already have. I wish Hydros had more lighting integration besides a 0-9v port.

 

[DHill6]

I sold off all Neptune items, decided I didn’t need the controller. During that time I had a few issues with it not working, updating, connection loss. I had the top of the line controller, dual DOS, par meter, reeflink. I was without a controller for quite awhile. I began reading all the mishaps with heaters so …When the Hydros was released I decided to try this controller. I’ll stick with this one, updates are easy, stays connected, I’m using a mesh system. XP8, XP4, ATO no problems. Fans, heaters , skimmer also plugged into the Xp8. Support is very quick and helpful, the look and size is better than the play school orange plastic. It’s easier to use, my opinion of course.

 

[Doctorgori]

I’ve owned Neptune now since the black/blue label days 2010-ish, uhh can’t remember exactly … the early stuff was solid, but they have had some major DUDS!!!
IMHO
-the ATO are finicky, esp the 1st incarnation of optical switches…much better if used with LLS’s
-The Flow monitors are pure stink …
- Tridents are flimsy and borderline reliable
- COR power supply …sketchy, had to replace 2 already
-WAV pumps: 2 of 4 have gone bad after 2-3 yrs (great when working)
- had more than a few modules go bad
-give most gear a B- , human support A+

… Actually glad to see some competition

 

[JeffB418]

Hydros pseudo coding is more powerful than people give credit for.

-- Full disclosure, I sell Hydros products and custom Hydros accessories elsewhere, but I am a power user of the product from day 1 --

This right here! Those coming from Neptune's "scripting" (myself included initially) get tripped up a lot with how to do more advanced functions. But if you break more complex functions into logical blocks and build it up using multiple "false" or virtual output functions, you can do some pretty powerful things. Plus you get visibility into each stage of your logic as well. Coming from an engineering background, Neptune is a bastardized scripting language while Hydros logic is more like a Labview Logic Block Diagram method. Neptune scripting would be so much more powerful if it was based off Python or such, and incorporate actual logic commands like AND/OR. Thats something really powerful about Hydros, is the logic combiner output, that actually gives you AND/OR functions, yes you can do that logic with Neptune but it takes much more forethought to implement effectively.

Plus something that Hydros has that Neptune does not, is what they call "Statefulness". This is baked into some of the pre-defined output profiles, such as the auto-water change profile. What makes this unique to Hydros is that it remembers what state it was in for cases where power was lost or device is reset. For AWC its very important because if you are in the process of draining and a controller resets, you want it to pickup and refill using saltwater and not freshwater ATO. With Hydros it writes its current state to non-volatile memory so a power cycle/blip/reset, allows it to pickup where it left off. Neptune doesn't do this.

A personal favorite for me on the hardware side is the 0-10V inputs on the X4, Wave engines. These are super powerful DIY analog inputs that allow for interfacing sensors, switches, and more. The generic input functions are pretty flexible to displaying and triggering other logic. Neptune does have similar analog inputs, but it requires a ~$100 ASM module, for the cost of 1 input channel. The X4 includes 4 said input channels. I have used these inputs to interface the Neptune LLS directly to my Hydros and get the same basic functionality.

Other functions/features that Neptune doesnt have:
- enclosure design that’s mindful of harsh environments. Connectors are better rated for salt use over Neptune. NO FANS! The XP8 does not actively pull in salty moist air like the EB832 does.
- Auto backup of every uploaded config to the cloud, with the last 20 versions accessible to the user (older versions accessible by support)
- Hardware recovery from backup files. The Hydros config file is in human editable JSON format. Easier to recover a failed system with Hydros method over Neptune. Neptune modules are indexed in the backup file based on what order they are attached to the brain unit, you cant just upload your backup file and recover if your modules werent indexed the same. Hydros indexes all units by SN in the JSON. So you can manually edit the SN in the txt file or even use the app to swap out a failed device and reupload to your collective.
- Collective/redundancy - Neptune relies on a single brain unit and multiple secondary modules. Without the brain, the other modules just default to a configured state or worse. Within a collective, Hydros can dynamically assign whos the main controller and whos the secondary controller(s), allowing the system to dynamically recover due to a failed endpoint. This allows you to limp at least while you get a replacement, not the case with Neptune where if the brain goes, you have 1) no visibility and 2) control.

 

[JeffB418]

This right here! Those coming from Neptune's "scripting" (myself included initially) get tripped up a lot with how to do more advanced functions. But if you break more complex functions into logical blocks and build it up using multiple "false" or virtual output functions, you can do some pretty powerful things. Plus you get visibility into each stage of your logic as well. Coming from an engineering background, Neptune is a bastardized scripting language while Hydros logic is more like a Labview Logic Block Diagram method. Neptune scripting would be so much more powerful if it was based off Python or such, and incorporate actual logic commands like AND/OR. Thats something really powerful about Hydros, is the logic combiner output, that actually gives you AND/OR functions, yes you can do that logic with Neptune but it takes much more forethought to implement effectively.

Plus something that Hydros has that Neptune does not, is what they call "Statefulness". This is baked into some of the pre-defined output profiles, such as the auto-water change profile. What makes this unique to Hydros is that it remembers what state it was in for cases where power was lost or device is reset. For AWC its very important because if you are in the process of draining and a controller resets, you want it to pickup and refill using saltwater and not freshwater ATO. With Hydros it writes its current state to non-volatile memory so a power cycle/blip/reset, allows it to pickup where it left off. Neptune doesn't do this.

A personal favorite for me on the hardware side is the 0-10V inputs on the X4, Wave engines. These are super powerful DIY analog inputs that allow for interfacing sensors, switches, and more. The generic input functions are pretty flexible to displaying and triggering other logic. Neptune does have similar analog inputs, but it requires a ~$100 ASM module, for the cost of 1 input channel. The X4 includes 4 said input channels. I have used these inputs to interface the Neptune LLS directly to my Hydros and get the same basic functionality.

Other functions/features that Neptune doesnt have:
- Auto backup of every uploaded config to the cloud, with the last 20 versions accessible to the user (older versions accessible by support)
- Hardware recovery from backup files. The Hydros config file is in human editable JSON format. Easier to recover a failed system with Hydros method over Neptune. Neptune modules are indexed in the backup file based on what order they are attached to the brain unit, you cant just upload your backup file and recover if your modules werent indexed the same. Hydros indexes all units by SN in the JSON. So you can manually edit the SN in the txt file or even use the app to swap out a failed device and reupload to your collective.
- Collective/redundancy - Neptune relies on a single brain unit and multiple secondary modules. Without the brain, the other modules just default to a configured state or worse. Within a collective, Hydros can dynamically assign whos the main controller and whos the secondary controller(s), allowing the system to dynamically recover due to a failed endpoint. This allows you to limp at least while you get a replacement, not the case with Neptune where if the brain goes, you have 1) no visibility and 2) control.

Hydros also keeps their control functions more flexible and open. One example is the "Dynamic Dosing" profile. This is the same concept as the Trident Controlled Dosing function that the DOS has. But Hydros left use of this pretty open, allowing this logic function to be applied to any dynamic input (alk input from alkatronic, phosphate reading from master tronic, or more) and also allows the user to use ANY type of dosing pump (drive port, AC outlet, or future X10 dosers). Neptune restricts trident controlled dosing to their DOS only, and cant use it with other options like AC dosers.

 

[Stevorino]

I've been using Apex as my primary controller since 2015. Gyres brought me into the Hydros ecosystem for a few years.

I am sure Hydros is amazing for some people, but my personal experience was a string of minor problems.

When I started building my new tank I tossed all of my hydros gear into a box in my storage room just in case there was a new piece of equipment I would need it for down the road. No hate on Hydros or their team, but it wasn't a good fit for me.

 

[CWalters]

Ah... yes - Neptune, the Apple of controllers

 

[Downfall]

I've been in the hobby since 2006. I've had most of the large brand controllers since then except GHL.

I'm extremely happy with my hydros setup. IMHO it's the best quality for value you can currently buy. I'm running the x4 pro pack with the xp8.

Too each their own though.

 

[massymas94]

I've been in the hobby since 2006. I've had most of the large brand controllers since then except GHL.

I'm extremely happy with my hydros setup. IMHO it's the best quality for value you can currently buy. I'm running the x4 pro pack with the xp8.

Too each their own though.

This is what I have too and the amount of functionality I have is what is prompting me to ask the question "what are those Apex people talking about?" As I read more from people in this thread, it seems like there may be a general misunderstanding of what Hydros can do. I imagine the lack of youtube videos (in comparison to Apex) showing setup of complex hydros systems may be to blame. Coral Vue has their videos but less than 10k people subscribe to that channel verses the BRS channel that is at 98.4k subscribers. And they have 0 videos that I could find where they even mention the Hydros.

Even a recent video they posted just 3 months ago titled:

Which Is Right for YOU? 16 Tips for Choosing Aquarium Controllers & Monitors!​

hilariously does not put the Hydros on the display table (though it does show up as them scrolling through the website)

I think it really comes down to better marketing

Or maybe I just need to adjust my tinfoil hat

 

[AstroCoral]

I like my Apex but I have no experience with Hydros. Both look nice but both have their inherent issues as seen in reviews and forums (nothing is perfect). It’s like looking for the perfect issue-free job, you’ll never find it. I would just weight what each can do, the ease of use, UI, and cost - then decide which system makes sense for you and your tank.