yessir I have. I have moved corals to the sump where no livestock is held and I saws the same effect. I then set up a completely separate 55gal tank directly next to the display tank and magically it grew corals just fine.
Asking for help because I am at a complete loss
- Thread starter HWDylan
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Pest or chemical warfare?
I have a similar symptom, and can smell somebody throwing chemicals when i feed and pumps are off. Have been dosing ozone, uv sourced, to try to break it up.
Pest I cant 100% rule out, but I did have it screened for coral pathogens and none were found.
Chemical warfare I can rule out though. There is no livestock in the tank for any length of time to release and toxins or anything that would bother corals.
I am serious when I say nothing but Zoas last more than a few weeks and even most zoas slowly melt over the course of about a month
A shot in the dark here.. Do you have any magnetic probe holders/ stands? I say this because my Apex probe holder in my fuge rusted out and was leaking iron into the tank. I lost almost every coral before i found the culprit. Sometimes the glue seal does not hold.
Also do you know your PAR levels for the lights? I amm wondering if it could be to much light.
I hope you find out what is causing this, you have an awesome setup..
Also do you know your PAR levels for the lights? I amm wondering if it could be to much light.
I hope you find out what is causing this, you have an awesome setup..
I condsidered buying all new rock (not a cheap decision) but it was all just regular BRS dry rock purchased brand new. I even used other rock from that purchase for other tanks that do not have this issue.
I am fairly certain it is a biology issue and once it has gotten this entrenched I am not sure I can right that ship without a full reboot.
I could be wrong of course but dang if I am not completely out of ideas at this point.
Rusty magnets should show up on ICP tests (been there before with an older tank).
I did rent a PAR meter when I set the tank up to get the lights dialed in properly. At 55% power there is no spot in the tank that is over 350par. I currently have the lights down to 25% since there is no corals surviving in the tank and I dont need to give algae any more reasons to grow haha.
TriggerFinger
2500 Club Member
Did you ever silicone anything in this setup? Any possibility that the wrong type of silicone was used when the tank was built? The kind with mold inhibiter in it could wipe out corals though I’m not sure about fish.
Nothing at all. Literally every piece of equipment is build by a reef company for the explicit use of being in a reef.
Killing corals and not fish is one of the most maddening things. Youd think if it were so bad it would kill a coral, fish would have at least a hard time and all my fish are fat and healthy. I have actually never lost a single fish in this system
Understandable. Hope the restart works out really well for you!
Seems the only biological substrate you have in the tank is artificial (dead) liverock. The interaction of that substrate with the water is likely the source of your issue, which is why you are dismantling the tank. Can I suggest that you get some liverock and put that in a barrel for 6 weeks to cycle, and then remove 1/2 of your fake rock and replace that with new live rock. Wait a few more weeks and remove the rest of the fake rock if you still can't keep coral alive. I suspect your fake rock is chemically imbalanced (hense the dkH losses) and bleaching the tank isn't going to improve/remove anything that your ICP couldn't detect.
Life of fish, ok, lack of real rock biology seems to be the source of your difficulty. Slow and steady vs Nueclear options. GL.
Life of fish, ok, lack of real rock biology seems to be the source of your difficulty. Slow and steady vs Nueclear options. GL.
MuscleBobBuffPants
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Just posting my hypothesis as to what is going on with this tank. A repost of my own comments on the "nuking this tank" thread.
"I just looked over your Micro-bacterial analysis again and noticed something. One of the extremely skewed bacteria that were found Vibrionaceae is listed in a wikipedia to produce a toxin tetrodotoxin and are extremely toxic ( not sure if to corals) in small amounts.
Also, a specific type of this bacteria that comes from this family is called Vibrio anguillarum . It is listed to be "damaging to the economy of aquaculture sector and fishing industries". it might be because it kills things, not sure yet.
Wow Wow Wow I think I found it.
"The extent of the host range is seen with species such as V. mediterranei and V. coralliilyticus, which can infect zooxanthellae, the plant symbionts of coral. These species of Vibrio are thought to be a cause of coral bleaching."
Vibrionaceae - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
This study has a lot of information about this specific strain of bacteria. I wish there was a microbiologist in this thread that could give us more information.
Temperature-Regulated Bleaching and Lysis of the Coral Pocillopora damicornis by the Novel Pathogen Vibrio coralliilyticus
But I'm also going through some of the other types of bacteria listed which your reef is deficient in, to see if there are multiple issues regarding the bacteria (perhaps some limited amount of beneficial bacterias) which might be furthering the issues.
Also, if you saved some of that dead coral/ water it might be able to get tested for this specific strain and may give you the answer you're looking for.
I also realize that I might sound like a student conducting a science experiment here. I wanted to say that I do empathize with your situation (tons of money and time invested). And I hope that you really do get to the bottom of this.
The study concludes that the temperature of the surrounding Seawater in which the coral lives in is mostly responsible for determining the fate of the infection once the coral is exposed. They performed multiple tests of different species from this family and were able to reextract the isolated strains of bacteria from the deceased specimen. Every time a coral died they were able to isolate the bacteria in the tissue.
An excerpt from the conclusion of the study
"Several marine Vibrio species are pathogenic to invertebrates (8, 16). The unusual feature of Vibrio bleaching of corals is that the target appears to be the intracellular zooxanthellae rather than the coral tissue. V. shiloi does not infect corals that lack algae (2), and the bacterium produces anti-algal toxins that inhibit photosynthesis and lyse the algae (3, 4)."
This brings up some interesting questions - like
Why is your tank so full of this bacteria that is deadly to coral zooxanthellae
Is there a way to specifically target this strain of the bacteria
If you were to starve this tank of "food" for the bacteria by ceasing introduction of new coral for a significant time, could you starve out the bacteria similar to fallow periods for marine fish pests like Ich or velvet? "
"I just looked over your Micro-bacterial analysis again and noticed something. One of the extremely skewed bacteria that were found Vibrionaceae is listed in a wikipedia to produce a toxin tetrodotoxin and are extremely toxic ( not sure if to corals) in small amounts.
Also, a specific type of this bacteria that comes from this family is called Vibrio anguillarum . It is listed to be "damaging to the economy of aquaculture sector and fishing industries". it might be because it kills things, not sure yet.
Wow Wow Wow I think I found it.
"The extent of the host range is seen with species such as V. mediterranei and V. coralliilyticus, which can infect zooxanthellae, the plant symbionts of coral. These species of Vibrio are thought to be a cause of coral bleaching."
Vibrionaceae - Wikipedia
This study has a lot of information about this specific strain of bacteria. I wish there was a microbiologist in this thread that could give us more information.
Temperature-Regulated Bleaching and Lysis of the Coral Pocillopora damicornis by the Novel Pathogen Vibrio coralliilyticus
But I'm also going through some of the other types of bacteria listed which your reef is deficient in, to see if there are multiple issues regarding the bacteria (perhaps some limited amount of beneficial bacterias) which might be furthering the issues.
Also, if you saved some of that dead coral/ water it might be able to get tested for this specific strain and may give you the answer you're looking for.
I also realize that I might sound like a student conducting a science experiment here. I wanted to say that I do empathize with your situation (tons of money and time invested). And I hope that you really do get to the bottom of this.
The study concludes that the temperature of the surrounding Seawater in which the coral lives in is mostly responsible for determining the fate of the infection once the coral is exposed. They performed multiple tests of different species from this family and were able to reextract the isolated strains of bacteria from the deceased specimen. Every time a coral died they were able to isolate the bacteria in the tissue.
An excerpt from the conclusion of the study
"Several marine Vibrio species are pathogenic to invertebrates (8, 16). The unusual feature of Vibrio bleaching of corals is that the target appears to be the intracellular zooxanthellae rather than the coral tissue. V. shiloi does not infect corals that lack algae (2), and the bacterium produces anti-algal toxins that inhibit photosynthesis and lyse the algae (3, 4)."
This brings up some interesting questions - like
Why is your tank so full of this bacteria that is deadly to coral zooxanthellae
Is there a way to specifically target this strain of the bacteria
If you were to starve this tank of "food" for the bacteria by ceasing introduction of new coral for a significant time, could you starve out the bacteria similar to fallow periods for marine fish pests like Ich or velvet? "
Well I'll be danged... This is by far the most interesting thing to come out of this whole thread.
Figuring out how and why this is such an issue in this tank is important. I wonder what happened that was so different from the other tank in this house?
Biggest question I have now is how do I prevent it happening again if I do bleach.
MuscleBobBuffPants
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at this point it seems like your only options is to bleach, but not only the tank, every single piece of equipment that you have used for this tank and perhaps even your other tanks needs to be sterilized. It’s almost as if you’re dealing with some sort of pathogen. Perhaps viewing some hospital/clean room sterilization techniques could help you out. Maybe even a very very large UV sterilizer could help you just completely nuke everything.
one other thing that I didn’t really post in my other messages but in your microfauna report there is a bacteria present in most reefs that yours lacks very very much. Something about some type of bacteria that is able to take in different sources of Carbon and methyl substances, another thing they did was listed under denitrification. I’m way more unclear about this one because the reading was difficult, but you might be missing a significant portion of denitrifying bacteria.
Please keep Me posted, I’m extremely interested in hearing about the future of this tank.
It honestly might be worth reaching out to the authors of that study and asking for their input.
I think I might try to send them an email. Keep some of your tank water
There are many Vibrio species and AquaBiomics lists many that are known to be pathogens. However, the field is dynamic.
The first thing I would do is email Eli at Aquabiomics to see if he is able to determine if V. coralliilyticus is present in your sample. If so, at least you'd know that it would be a likely candidate for your issues.
The first thing I would do is email Eli at Aquabiomics to see if he is able to determine if V. coralliilyticus is present in your sample. If so, at least you'd know that it would be a likely candidate for your issues.
Lovefish77
Well-Known Member
Very strange, you seem to have everything in order dont know what is missing. The fact that softies dont even thrive is a head scratcher for me coz they are easy to keep. Note that if your system is geared for sps (given that battery of radios) and high flow you will not do well with softies. I never was able to do well with mushrooms, ever, for instance due to high light and high flow.
Also check for basic things like rusting magnets or anything spooky that doesnt get tested for.
Also check for basic things like rusting magnets or anything spooky that doesnt get tested for.
Lovefish77
Well-Known Member
Great point, parrot are far from being reef safe especially for stony corals.
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