1st ever ICP on a 3 year old tank need suggestions

[CornishCrustyCorals]

So I finally did an ICP test for the first time on my 100 gallon which has been setup for about 3 years.

Since last September I had been having issues after returning from a 3 week holiday to finding my 2 conchs had passed which I've had since my first ever tank so they were quite old and figured they just passed naturally and that also seem to start all the new tank problems all over again. Cyano, hair algae etc and since then I've been slowing getting the tank back to how it once was. I lost a lot of zoas but didn't really loose anything else, they pretty much got smothered to death with hair algae.

I then was still having high nutrient problems and in the past month or so I decided to stop getting water from my LFS and start making my own RODI and saltwater. When I tested the RODI from the LFS the TDS was 46! out of the tap its only in its 60s so I figured that was more than likely contributing to some of the issues. My water I make is now 0 TDS

My algae problems cleared up very quickly since I have been making my own water and the tank has been looking very good however I started noticing what was left with my zoas are not doing that great and have been shrinking a lot. my hammers, candy canes, bubble coral have all been doing really well, almost twice the size they were a month ago. My frogspawn is however shrinking. So I figured its best to get an ICP.

So my tank still seems to have high nutrients however I figured with water changes I should see them come down as they have already come down a lot from my own testing at least.
I am concerned however how so many of my trace elements are LOD which I am guessing means so low they either cant detect any or its the minimum amount.
Then I have extremely high Molybdenum
I also have some aluminium detected I am hoping this is due to having Marine pure blocks in the sump???

Since making my own water I would say I have only diluted the tank by about 25%

Do I just keep doing regular water changes? I am thinking maybe doing 5 gallons daily or do I maybe do a 50% water change?

I have a feeling the salt water I was buying really wasn't the best as the tank is improving a lot everyday I do add more of the water I am now making.
I am using Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt now I have a feeling the LFS was just getting whatever was cheapest.

If some of you guys who do these tests all the time could take a look that would be awesome.

Oh also can the water being held over a weekend effect the results much. I bottled it up on Friday and totally forgot what day it was and we had a holiday in the UK on Monday so my water never got tested until Tuesday.

 

[CornishCrustyCorals]

Oh I should add I haven't been dosing anything to the tank for about 2 months so I assume that has contributed to the lack of trace elements as I know the 2 part I was dosing did include all essential elements.
The ICP was done by Reef zlements and I normally would be using their 2 part. I have just ordered it so will be able to get that going again as well as doing a lot more water changes. I only used to do 15% weekly

 

[Tavero]

Your Fluoride is too low. I would fix that before some corals, that are sensitive to it like your Zoanthids start to melt completely. I wouldn't worry about Phosphate too much as long as algae isn't an issue.
Aluminum is still fine don't worry about it.
I would take the trace element measurements with a grain of salt (molybdenum included). lots of time they aren't accurate unless you use ICP MS tests.

 

[CornishCrustyCorals]

Yeah and also the chloride. I've honestly never done anything about those but they are in the 2 part that I was using before.

I've never really been one for numbers other than alk mag and calcium but now obviously I am trying to step up my game.

So am I right in saying by doing water changes more regularly I should start to see all the levels come back to where they should be or do I have to dose the stuff that's low to get them back.

Like I said il be getting the 2 part back up and running again so that should bring up those levels a bit as well but obviously the corals are consuming it as well.

I was thinking maybe do 5 gallons everyday and start the 2 part and do another icp after a month?

 

[gbroadbridge]

So I finally did an ICP test for the first time on my 100 gallon which has been setup for about 3 years.

Since last September I had been having issues after returning from a 3 week holiday to finding my 2 conchs had passed which I've had since my first ever tank so they were quite old and figured they just passed naturally and that also seem to start all the new tank problems all over again. Cyano, hair algae etc and since then I've been slowing getting the tank back to how it once was. I lost a lot of zoas but didn't really loose anything else, they pretty much got smothered to death with hair algae.

I then was still having high nutrient problems and in the past month or so I decided to stop getting water from my LFS and start making my own RODI and saltwater. When I tested the RODI from the LFS the TDS was 46! out of the tap its only in its 60s so I figured that was more than likely contributing to some of the issues. My water I make is now 0 TDS

My algae problems cleared up very quickly since I have been making my own water and the tank has been looking very good however I started noticing what was left with my zoas are not doing that great and have been shrinking a lot. my hammers, candy canes, bubble coral have all been doing really well, almost twice the size they were a month ago. My frogspawn is however shrinking. So I figured its best to get an ICP.

So my tank still seems to have high nutrients however I figured with water changes I should see them come down as they have already come down a lot from my own testing at least.
I am concerned however how so many of my trace elements are LOD which I am guessing means so low they either cant detect any or its the minimum amount.
Then I have extremely high Molybdenum
I also have some aluminium detected I am hoping this is due to having Marine pure blocks in the sump???

Since making my own water I would say I have only diluted the tank by about 25%

Do I just keep doing regular water changes? I am thinking maybe doing 5 gallons daily or do I maybe do a 50% water change?

I have a feeling the salt water I was buying really wasn't the best as the tank is improving a lot everyday I do add more of the water I am now making.
I am using Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt now I have a feeling the LFS was just getting whatever was cheapest.

If some of you guys who do these tests all the time could take a look that would be awesome.

Oh also can the water being held over a weekend effect the results much. I bottled it up on Friday and totally forgot what day it was and we had a holiday in the UK on Monday so my water never got tested until Tuesday.

How are you checking your Salinity as from those numbers it appears to be quite low.

 

[brandon429]

you are describing tank eutrophication above

coral insults are expected when generations of invasions were boomed and busted in the same tank/mass degradation within the system if applicable.

you had described getting a lot of algae and then it dying off from water prep changes

if that dying mass gets in the crevices of your tank, the tank begins to act like a mouth that hasn't been to the dentist in 20 years. what happens to teeth in that case, happens to our coral.



pics reveal details like accumulations in the corners, or various growths or color schemes for the rocks and walls of the tank. pics of the tank are the best troubleshoot tool for your challenge.

there are key things in your description that make ICP tests not very helpful if the details show what I think pics might show

can you post a tank picture of your setup

 

[Tavero]

Yeah and also the chloride. I've honestly never done anything about those but they are in the 2 part that I was using before.

I've never really been one for numbers other than alk mag and calcium but now obviously I am trying to step up my game.

So am I right in saying by doing water changes more regularly I should start to see all the levels come back to where they should be or do I have to dose the stuff that's low to get them back.

Like I said il be getting the 2 part back up and running again so that should bring up those levels a bit as well but obviously the corals are consuming it as well.

I was thinking maybe do 5 gallons everyday and start the 2 part and do another icp after a month?

Chloride is mainly dependent on the salinity. Higher salinity higher chloride.
More regular water changes will fix the parameters but it depends on the consumption. 0.4 mg/l fluoride is really low. I had already issues at 0.7mg/l

 

[CornishCrustyCorals]

How are you checking your Salinity as from those numbers it appears to be quite low.

well your not wrong the salinity was also low
I had a slight accident and it was at 1.023 however it is back up to 1.026 now.
The ICP matches my own refractometer.
I was new to the making my own water etc and got a bit rushed into doing things after I bottled up and quickly ran to the post office and sent it off I had checked my salinity and realised It was at 1.023.
I never mentioned the base parameters because I didn't think that would effect the traces etc

Heres the base parameters and I can obviously see stuff thats bad here but, no dosing and low salinity kinda makes sense here.

Thinking now I actually have the salinity correct maybe I should just do another one and send it off?

 

[CornishCrustyCorals]

Chloride is mainly dependent on the salinity. Higher salinity higher chloride.
More regular water changes will fix the parameters but it depends on the consumption. 0.4 mg/l fluoride is really low. I had already issues at 0.7mg/l

oh ok that's good to know about chloride.
I can buy something called Flourine is that what is needed to increase that level?

 

[Tavero]

oh ok that's good to know about chloride.
I can buy something called Flourine is that what is needed to increase that level?

Fluoride is the salt in ion form. Fluorine the element, which is a gas and highly toxic. But some companies call their supplements wrongly by the elemenal name.

TLDR: Yes that's what you need

 

[CornishCrustyCorals]

Fluoride is the salt in ion form. Fluorine the element, which is a gas and highly toxic. But some companies call their supplements wrongly by the elemenal name.

TLDR: Yes that's what you need

Got it ordered. Found it funny 150ml and 1000ml only £2 difference so obv went for the bigger one

 

[Tavero]

Thinking now I actually have the salinity correct maybe I should just do another one and send it off?

I would wait a month or so before sending of the next one. Do the water changes. Start dosing supplements ect. When you think the parameters are fixed and the consumption is in equilibrium you can do the control ICP.

 

[CornishCrustyCorals]

I would wait a month or so before sending of the next one. Do the water changes. Start dosing supplements ect. When you think the parameters are fixed and the consumption is in equilibrium you can do the control ICP.

Thanks I appreciate the help.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am not sure the fluoride is going to be useful (almost no one ever dosed it in the past), but I do think an experiment with a trace element dosing product such as Tropic Marin A and K is a fine way to go and see if anything perks up at all.

 

[Tavero]

I am not sure the fluoride is going to be useful (almost no one ever dosed it in the past), but I do think an experiment with a trace element dosing product such as Tropic Marin A and K is a fine way to go and see if anything perks up at all.

I have the feeling, that the fact tanks were maintained solely by water changes in the past, is the reason zoa melting is so widespread nowadays. Many reefers have changed their maintenance to dosing and replenishing elements instead, but without offering the complete spectrum. I don't know what kind of biological effects fluorine has on corals but due to my and other reefers observations, zoanthids definitely need it.

It's a similar situation with strontium. We don't know if it has any biological relevance, but better keep it at natural levels to avoid another reason of failure.

 

[CornishCrustyCorals]

I grabbed some pics in the white lights. the only zoas I have left are the dang ugly ones The macro shot of the leptastrea this coral was one I rescued from a LFS which was pretty much dead and did nothing in my tank for 2 years and is now actually growing and spreading on the rack its been on since I had it.
I would say I lost around 10 different types of zoas and around 1000 total.
I included a pic of what my zoas used to be like I had racks full of them.
But I did get lazy last year so its obviously mostly because of that.
I should get that fluorine tomorrow along with the 2 part I was using before I let it all slide.
Then keep doing 5gallons a day for a month and see where we end up.

 

[MnFish1]

Yeah and also the chloride. I've honestly never done anything about those but they are in the 2 part that I was using before.

I've never really been one for numbers other than alk mag and calcium but now obviously I am trying to step up my game.

So am I right in saying by doing water changes more regularly I should start to see all the levels come back to where they should be or do I have to dose the stuff that's low to get them back.

Like I said il be getting the 2 part back up and running again so that should bring up those levels a bit as well but obviously the corals are consuming it as well.

I was thinking maybe do 5 gallons everyday and start the 2 part and do another icp after a month?

If your salt contains all of those elements water changes will help. What is your measured salinity? Since your sodium is on the low end. I would not worry about any of the other elements - you could get a bottle of Kent iron/manganese (and I believe there is one with molybdenum as well - and use that as directed - though many of these elements often measure at '0' LOD - but they are not '0'.

Edit - sorry I missed that you measured your salinity. In general - if you have a salt with the proper elements - increasing the salinity will also increase other levels (of the chemicals in the salt)

 

[Tavero]

I grabbed some pics in the white lights. the only zoas I have left are the dang ugly ones The macro shot of the leptastrea this coral was one I rescued from a LFS which was pretty much dead and did nothing in my tank for 2 years and is now actually growing and spreading on the rack its been on since I had it.
I would say I lost around 10 different types of zoas and around 1000 total.
I included a pic of what my zoas used to be like I had racks full of them.
But I did get lazy last year so its obviously mostly because of that.
I should get that fluorine tomorrow along with the 2 part I was using before I let it all slide.
Then keep doing 5gallons a day for a month and see where we end up.

Fluoride isn't a cure-all, there may be other reasons for the zoa melting syndrome (pests, low nutrients, bacterial infections ect), but in tanks that contain under 1mg/l it should help.

You have some pics of how your zoas look now?

 

[Pntbll687]

So I finally did an ICP test for the first time on my 100 gallon which has been setup for about 3 years.

Since last September I had been having issues after returning from a 3 week holiday to finding my 2 conchs had passed which I've had since my first ever tank so they were quite old and figured they just passed naturally and that also seem to start all the new tank problems all over again. Cyano, hair algae etc and since then I've been slowing getting the tank back to how it once was. I lost a lot of zoas but didn't really loose anything else, they pretty much got smothered to death with hair algae.

I then was still having high nutrient problems and in the past month or so I decided to stop getting water from my LFS and start making my own RODI and saltwater. When I tested the RODI from the LFS the TDS was 46! out of the tap its only in its 60s so I figured that was more than likely contributing to some of the issues. My water I make is now 0 TDS

My algae problems cleared up very quickly since I have been making my own water and the tank has been looking very good however I started noticing what was left with my zoas are not doing that great and have been shrinking a lot. my hammers, candy canes, bubble coral have all been doing really well, almost twice the size they were a month ago. My frogspawn is however shrinking. So I figured its best to get an ICP.

So my tank still seems to have high nutrients however I figured with water changes I should see them come down as they have already come down a lot from my own testing at least.
I am concerned however how so many of my trace elements are LOD which I am guessing means so low they either cant detect any or its the minimum amount.
Then I have extremely high Molybdenum
I also have some aluminium detected I am hoping this is due to having Marine pure blocks in the sump???

Since making my own water I would say I have only diluted the tank by about 25%

Do I just keep doing regular water changes? I am thinking maybe doing 5 gallons daily or do I maybe do a 50% water change?

I have a feeling the salt water I was buying really wasn't the best as the tank is improving a lot everyday I do add more of the water I am now making.
I am using Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt now I have a feeling the LFS was just getting whatever was cheapest.

If some of you guys who do these tests all the time could take a look that would be awesome.

Oh also can the water being held over a weekend effect the results much. I bottled it up on Friday and totally forgot what day it was and we had a holiday in the UK on Monday so my water never got tested until Tuesday.

I would just stick with one salt and keep doing some smaller water changes.

You'll drive yourself crazy trying to match numbers from an ICP test.

Water changes and a solid 2,3, or 4 part dosing solution would be all you need right now.

 

[MnFish1]

By the way - you can use this calculator to determine how effective your water changes will be at removing or adding various things. (if you know the concentration of whatever in your new water that you're adding. https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/EffectiveWaterChange.php