Unable to keep gonis happy - ICP inside

[Pistondog]

Nitrates below 5 ppm and some of my gonis are not happy. We dose diy manganese daily.

 

[VintageReefer]

While I have never used moonshiners, I have heard and seen great systems that utilize it, and agree with a lot of Andre's methodology
That said Mn is present in very small amounts, with 6ug/l being around the recommended level.

With the fauna Marin manganese, the typical dosage correction bringing a 2000gal system from undetectable to around 6ug/l is still only~ 4-7ml, a 250ml bottle from FM lasts a very long time, even in farm usage settings / 20,000 of gallons of coral aquaculture systems.

Again ! Though, this discussion of Mn levels of OPs tank pale in comparison to their potassium values

Can't stress this enough OP
if your potassium is under 300ppm, that should be your main concern first, before you even think about trying to modulate your Mn levels.

Majority of successful reef tanks not utilizing trace dosing likely have undetectable Mn levels, it precipitates and is used up rapidly, however with potassium the same cannot be said and there are likely very few long term successful reef systems, if any, that have potassium values under 300 , it's supposed to be around the same concentration as calcium, it being so low esp under 300ppm is a MAJOR concern and can cause major issues with coral health.

Forget about your Mn levels until you fix your potassium

A Basic easy read publication on potassium-

Potassium in a Saltwater Aquarium and its Importance - Reef Pedia

Potassium belongs to the group of macroelements and is essential for the life of all organisms in a marine aquarium.

reefpedia.org

This post above was edited and I wrote my thread response before seeing the post at all

To OP - I don’t disagree with the potassium reccomendtion at all, and I am not arguing with the good and valuable advice given in the post I’m quoting above

Focus on the potsssium as recommended, it likely is related to your issues. And while buying supplements, no harm in including manganese, many people report improvement with it. Correct both and see how things go

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is potassium something I should be monitoring if I am not keeping any SPS?

It doesn’t deplete in all aquaria, but it’s not a special SPS thing to worry about. All organisms need it in a reasonable range.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is red sea colors the crowd favorite for potassium supplementation? Or is there another favorite if I go the dosing route?

Food grade potassium chloride from, say, Now foods.

 

[slapshot]

Recently have ran into issues in keeping my gonis happy. I have been experimenting with different light/flow combinations by moving them in different parts of the tank over the past 6 months, and now figured it could be something with the water chemistry.

Does anything look out of the norm? I already plan on starting to add iodine to raise those levels, but nothing is sticking out to me.

My current maintenance schedule:
- 25% weekly water change for the past 4 months. Before that it was a 10% weekly water change.
- Dosing all for reef to maintain alk between 8-9
- Carbon dosing bactobalance at the minimum dosage to maintain phosphates between .03-.1

Any help is appreciated!

Recently have ran into issues in keeping my gonis happy. I have been experimenting with different light/flow combinations by moving them in different parts of the tank over the past 6 months, and now figured it could be something with the water chemistry.

Does anything look out of the norm? I already plan on starting to add iodine to raise those levels, but nothing is sticking out to me.

My current maintenance schedule:
- 25% weekly water change for the past 4 months. Before that it was a 10% weekly water change.
- Dosing all for reef to maintain alk between 8-9
- Carbon dosing bactobalance at the minimum dosage to maintain phosphates between .03-.1

Any help is appreciated!

 

[C. Eymann]

This post above was edited and I wrote my thread response before seeing the post at all

To OP - I don’t disagree with the potassium reccomendtion at all, and I am not arguing with the good and valuable advice given in the post I’m quoting above

Focus on the potsssium as recommended, it likely is related to your issues. And while buying supplements, no harm in including manganese, many people report improvement with it. Correct both and see how things go

Yeah, I was just a little distraught how most people were focusing on OPs manganese level and telling them to correct it because there seems to be some ancedotal evidence/ positive correlation with goni health and manganese - which I won't disagree with per say.
I was just trying to stress to OP that their alarmingly deficient potassium level should be addressed first as it can pose a much larger issue than having undetectable manganese and is likely the reason for having coral health issues in general.

 

[killer2001]

I'd correct the potassium immediately to about 400ppm then I'd focus on developing a daily manganese + iron supplement routine. I think Gonis like to feed on a very fine particulate in the water, anything too large will make them retract from my observation.

 

[RelaxingWithTheReef]

With 25% weekly water changes for the past 4 months, and your potassium at 269 when it should be around 400. It seems like something is not adding up. I’m thinking this was a testing error, or you have a defective batch of salt.

I would be really concerned about adding 131ppm potassium to the tank without confirming the deficiency. Maybe someone could recommend a potassium test kit?

 

[the_goodz]

So after doing more research on the possible causes of the low potassium that @C. Eymann noted should be of real concern, I have come to the unfortunate conclusion I have dinos.

In the treatment guide, it is pointed out that the dinos depleted the potassium/iodine which is the same case as mine. This had gone unnoticed due to my diamond goby keeping my sand bed always white, and daily cleaning of my glass which I assumed was just algae buildup.

As to the new goal of treating the dinos, I will hold off correcting potassium/mangenese as these seem to be the fuel source for them. I already setup a UV to run 24/7 until I can determine the specific type I have with a microscope.

Phosphates are at 0.09 and nitrates are at 10 as of this morning. All other corals are doing fine, so unfortunately will probably have to sacrifice the gonis as I plan to not dose AFR and forego WC's to not replenish the nutrients the dinos are using. Instead plan on dosing bacteria to build up competition, and will adjust to see how that plays out.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So after doing more research on the possible causes of the low potassium that @C. Eymann noted should be of real concern, I have come to the unfortunate conclusion I have dinos.

In the treatment guide, it is pointed out that the dinos depleted the potassium/iodine which is the same case as mine. This had gone unnoticed due to my diamond goby keeping my sand bed always white, and daily cleaning of my glass which I assumed was just algae buildup.

As to the new goal of treating the dinos, I will hold off correcting potassium/mangenese as these seem to be the fuel source for them. I already setup a UV to run 24/7 until I can determine the specific type I have with a microscope.

Phosphates are at 0.09 and nitrates are at 10 as of this morning. All other corals are doing fine, so unfortunately will probably have to sacrifice the gonis as I plan to not dose AFR and forego WC's to not replenish the nutrients the dinos are using. Instead plan on dosing bacteria to build up competition, and will adjust to see how that plays out.

I’m not convinced dinos consume any more potassium than any other organism. Cells have an internal potassium concentration, and more volume of cells means more potassium no matter what it is.

If you literally read it consumes potassium iodide, that means the iodine. One cannot ever usefully raise potassium with potassium iodide due to the amount of iodide in it.

 

[the_goodz]

I’m not convinced dinos consume any more potassium than any other organism. Cells have an internal potassium concentration, and more volume of cells means more potassium no matter what it is.

If you literally read it consumes potassium iodide, that means the iodine. One cannot ever usefully raise potassium with potassium iodide due to the amount of iodide in it.

I am referring to section 3 of the treatment guide as seen here:

 

[Reef Puncher]

soooo none of your numbers are that bad. sure, your low on some trace elements. specifically manganase, copper, iodine, potassium, and few more. all for reef and water changes help, or instead of doing so many water changes, you could try dosing something like this like this
or even better perhaps as you have more control is something like this.

All for reef has trace, but rarely is it enough to keep up. it just helps. water changes every week seems like alot to do.

 

[the_goodz]

Here is the unhappy goni that I assumed just had GHA growing on it after not opening for so long as I have GHA/Bryopsis in other parts of the tank. Chalking this one up to a rookie mistaken of identity

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am referring to section 3 of the treatment guide as seen here:

I’d caution to not believe everything you read.

First, potassium is not a trace element. The reason that is important is because it is easy to deplete iodine and iron and all other trace elements because there is so little of them present. There are more than 10,000 times as many potassium ions in seawater as iodine. A small bloom of anything won’t cause the massive drop in potassium you have (if the values are correct).

Second, any bloom of similar proportion can also reduce potassium. Algae, corals, phytoplankton, bacteria, etc.

Finally, if you do not see dinos all over, it’s not the cause for low potassium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I was never able to get goniopora to thrive in my tank long term, and I also never supplemented manganese or most other trace elements except in foods and water changes. Since it can deplete rapidly, it may have been some or all of the issue.

 

[rishma]

Phosphates are at 0.09 and nitrates are at 10 as of this morning.

Here is the unhappy goni that I assumed just had GHA growing on it after not opening for so long as I have GHA/Bryopsis in other parts of the tank. Chalking this one up to a rookie mistaken of identity

I also doubt the dino diagnosis. I think that goni does look like it has hair algae to me.

These are very good N&P numbers and not what I would expect to result Dinos.

Gonis are tough. It’s only been in the last <10 years I’ve seen a lot of success stories.

 

[VintageReefer]

I also doubt the dino diagnosis. I think that goni does look like it has hair algae to me.

These are very good N&P numbers and not what I would expect to result Dinos.

Gonis are tough. It’s only been in the last <10 years I’ve seen a lot of success stories.

The Goni will never open like that. Try a hydrogen peroxide dip (mixed with saltwater, instructions online) to kill the gha and any algae films. I have saved many Goni this way

 

[Pistondog]

Here is the unhappy goni that I assumed just had GHA growing on it after not opening for so long as I have GHA/Bryopsis in other parts of the tank. Chalking this one up to a rookie mistaken of identity

Pull off as much gha as possible, then as @VintageReefer suggested, dip in h2o2 3% diluted 1:5 with tank water for 5 to 7 minutes. Use a syringe or turkey baster to gently spray the goni during the dip.

Peroxide dipping guidelines (for corals)

A while back Justin Credabel published this chart detailing the concentration of hydrogen peroxide appropriate for dipping various genera of corals. I've used these guidelines myself a few times to remove algae from coral frags and it's been quite effective. Justin Credabel's hydrogen...

humble.fish

 

[the_goodz]

Here is a video with whites on. The stuff on the goni is brown/stringy and I pan up to show a bit of fluffy green GHA. The stuff on the Goni popped up almost over night. Pretty sure it is dinos unless GHA comes brown/stringy that I am not aware of?

 

[VintageReefer]

Here is a video with whites on. The stuff on the goni is brown/stringy and I pan up to show a bit of fluffy green GHA. The stuff on the Goni popped up almost over night. Pretty sure it is dinos unless GHA comes brown/stringy that I am not aware of?

Dinos or not (I can’t get video to play) it has gha that will irritate the coral and prevent opening