Would you invest a grand for a KH Guardian?

[Waterjockey]

If the only difference between the two is the software that makes it more precise then this is a really bad marketing move. Why bother offering the "standard" version? At 0.33 dkh it's not very useful in my opinion. 8.5dkH could be reported as 8.83 or 8.17?
When you say you want to charge $200 for just a software upgrade, to make the unit acceptably accurate, it really turns me off.

 

[SciGuy2]

Pardon me, would you have any Grey Poupon?

 

[reef_ranch]

but, i am quite sure that we will absolutely never see a mindtsream to be a reality, and if, with bad accuracy and big running costs. I think that mindstream is a fairy tail.

Jonas:
I am a big believer in mindstream and would be surprised if it did not come to market next year. That company has spent a ton of money and from what I have read about the testing methods, it is not science fiction. What makes you think it will never be a reality?

 

[redfishbluefish]

No, I would not purchase this for three reasons:

1. It's too expensive
2. I feel it's unnecessary.
3. It only measures/doses ALK.

I've been running two part since 2008 in an established tank. I dose two part using BRS dosing pumps. I know my consumption so well that I'm lucky if I test for Alk and Calc at least once a month. When I test I'm typically right on, or need to adjust pumps by a minute or two. Accordingly, I'd have a hard time justifying spending the money for just Alk.

The other consideration is that it only measures ALK, so you're still testing and doing whatever to dose CALC. My feeling is that it needs to measure and dose both ALK and CALC for it to save you time and energy....but still at a more reasonable cost.

 

[JonasRoman]

You just pick up some information you need only.
Do you know KHG has profession edition it is for 0.1dHK.
We have announced that for pre-order customers we will free of charge to update the software from STANDARD EDITION TO PROFESSION EDITION.....it save you US$200.

Coralvue orders 90 units (we limited the qty) already and all of them are for profession edition but the price will only be sell as standard edition price.

Take the only chance to buy it from next lot we will change it back to standard edition.

ok, good. Is it only a software upgrading? Is it +- 0.1 then it is an accuracy of 0.2. Let us say you have 8.0. Then machine will show anything between 7.9-8.1. I know the issues behind measuring these things, very well, so just try to interpret the info. Maybe it is ok with +-0.2, but then still a "Salifert" is better. And, is it wise to let a machine regulate,fineadjust something that it will not meet with that precision?

Jonas:
I am a big believer in mindstream and would be surprised if it did not come to market next year. That company has spent a ton of money and from what I have read about the testing methods, it is not science fiction. What makes you think it will never be a reality?

Of course i can be wrong, but there is a lot of examples of companies that do some "preselling" before the product is ready and the product never became a reality, so the fact that they have invested is not a guarantee. I have several friends which payed, but now got their money back due to continuously changing deadlines. According to their info it should have been ready for the market a year ago..that means that they have some problems, I guess with accuracy and maybe the costs. I do not think the technique is easy at all, no product based on this technique exist as far as I know, and there are very difficult for instance to measure without interference of nearby atoms, ions I think. I am not an expert in this particular method, but for me they have loosen my respect totally when the deadline is continuously changed. In my mind it is equal to serious problems and I simply not believe this will be a reality.

 

[JonasRoman]

If the only difference between the two is the software that makes it more precise then this is a really bad marketing move. Why bother offering the "standard" version? At 0.33 dkh it's not very useful in my opinion. 8.5dkH could be reported as 8.83 or 8.17?
When you say you want to charge $200 for just a software upgrade, to make the unit acceptably accurate, it really turns me off.

well spoken, I totally agree

 

[JonasRoman]

Interesting thread anyway

 

[coralfarm123]

Basically this is just an automated ALK monitor for anyone with a large tank because it wouldn't be able to dose enough in a large tank to keep up with usage. Also without being able to make Calcium corrections it sounds more like a complete waste of money at any price point since you will have to more closely monitor Calcium since this device will add to ALK without replacing calcium. This thread makes CoralVue look very greedy IMO. If this device corrected both ALK and Calcium and could do it with standard two-part components it would be a valuable piece of equipment without a doubt. The more I read about this device the more disappointing it looks.

 

[reef_ranch]

Of course i can be wrong, but there is a lot of examples of companies that do some "preselling" before the product is ready and the product never became a reality, so the fact that they have invested is not a guarantee. I have several friends which payed, but now got their money back due to continuously changing deadlines. According to their info it should have been ready for the market a year ago..that means that they have some problems, I guess with accuracy and maybe the costs. I do not think the technique is easy at all, no product based on this technique exist as far as I know, and there are very difficult for instance to measure without interference of nearby atoms, ions I think. I am not an expert in this particular method, but for me they have loosen my respect totally when the deadline is continuously changed. In my mind it is equal to serious problems and I simply not believe this will be a reality.

I agree they misplayed the kickstarter campaign, and they are aware of it and know they need to do it right the second time. I spoke with them at MACNA this year and they explained a number of technical issues they have had to solve in order to ensure that the unit does perform as expected. I gave them my advice on advertising a launch date - under-promise and over-deliver. While there may be a sense of urgency to get it out given product such as this one, the Apex unit that will one day get released and the rumored GHL probe (which may be the most far fetched given the chemistry of Alk measurments), building an accurate, precise and affordable Alk monitor is so difficult, doing it right will be more important than doing it first.

I'm not a scientist, but mindstream does appear to have a very good technical/science team and have raised millions of dollars. If they fail, it won't be because of a lack of resources or talent. After speaking with them, I'm still a believer. Time will tell.

 

[Dumaurier7]

My money is on GHL !!!! Go GHL !!!

 

[gus6464]

Lol@mindstream. The price is 900 for that and that doesn't include the monthly fee. Plus that thing is nowhere near ready. Didn't even bring a working unit to macna.

 

[Eric Noa Jr]

This is not even out and they are already offering a $200 upgrade option. By the time it is released you're looking at $2k. No, No and more No. I'll wait for Neptune to release theirs. Either way Im only interested in monitoring.

 

[james77515]

So with the pro upgrade to the software the whole unit should be around $400 in my opinion unless you just want to sell a handful and never really have any success.

 

[iiluisii]

Lol@mindstream. The price is 900 for that and that doesn't include the monthly fee. Plus that thing is nowhere near ready. Didn't even bring a working unit to macna.

Do you work for coral vue or are sponsored by them?

 

[iiluisii]

Lol@mindstream. The price is 900 for that and that doesn't include the monthly fee. Plus that thing is nowhere near ready. Didn't even bring a working unit to macna.

Also you are saying 1000 is ok for this unit and I respect your opinion because we all have opinions but I have one question for you. What return pump do you use and if you use a doser which brand do you use?

 

[gus6464]

Also you are saying 1000 is ok for this unit and I respect your opinion because we all have opinions but I have one question for you. What return pump do you use and if you use a doser which brand do you use?

What does my other equipment have to do with anything? But I guess I will bite.

I use a calcium reactor consisting of:
GEO 612
GEO UMC 420 second chamber
Cole-Parmer Masterflex for effluent control
Victor VTS-253B dual stage regulator (replacing with an Airgas Y12 dual stage with Ideal needle valve soon)

Return pump is a Fluval SP4 as I like the head pressure.

I also have a lot of other equipment as well. Stenner dual head 100MP4 for auto water change, etc.

 

[tj w]

You guys are shooting yourself in the foot, for 1K I would expect a top of the line product, not a hobbled version that can be upgraded for $200 if this is the only difference between the standard and professional version you have just lost a customer.

Well said Jonty! Why would you guys even do this? I understand you need the capital but come on. This makes even the guys on the fence a lot more skeptical to say the least. Why would you use this "standard or for 200 more get the professional model" to try to gain business. Makes no sense at all. Come on guys! (By the way, Jonty has one of the most impressive systems out there. He would be a great asset to any company looking for beta users.)

 

[gus6464]

Yes because no other products in the hobby have a regular and pro version. *cough*ecotech*cough*

 

[tj w]

Yes because no other products in the hobby have a regular and pro version. *cough*ecotech*cough*

How long have they been in business? Are they proven? We could all go back and forth on this as everyone has their own opinion. I hope they do succeed for the better of our hobby, but they have lots to prove in the mean time.

 

[iiluisii]

Yes because no other products in the hobby have a regular and pro version. *cough*ecotech*cough*

Squint. Dude how can you compare a product that has 2 versions with no margin of error and both provide enough light to grow the most difficult corals with a $1000 product that's has a margin of error greater thank a $50 test kit ?