Will big box retailers, ever get it right?

reeffirstaid

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Right now, activists like Snorkel Bob, and the entire Sea Shepherd Foundation, are aiming to put an end to the collection of aquarium fish worldwide. They have a compelling argument, citing that most fish taken from a coral reef, destined for an aquarium, are likely to die. It seems like a grim prediction, but anytime you walk into a large chain store, often you see far more fatally ill fish, then you do healthy ones. As a lifelong aquarist and aquarium writer, I’ve had the honor to visit many different private aquariums. All were attended by prudent and responsible aquarists, who combined chemistry, art and biology, to create stunning home ecosystems. So if the aquarium hobby is full of dedicated, conscientious reef keepers, where are Snorkel Bob and others getting their statistics, citing that a vast majority of reef fish die within one year of entering captivity? Where is the break in the chain? Why, and how are all these fish dying, and what percentage of that death rate is caused by big box retailers, such as Petco.

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Petco, where the fish and corals go, to die...

LFS v. Big Box (A tie in poor care of aquatic life)

Over the years, I’ve visited more aquarium outlets, than I care to remember. I’ve been in shops in large cities, smaller communities and even visited the aquaculture facilities of major players in the reef fish industry. I can count on one hand, the places where I would feel comfortable buying aquatic life, for my own display. One LFS, not far from my home, created a very unrealistic picture of the aquarium hobby. They kept a nurse shark, in a two-hundred gallon display, and commonly had hard to keep, unique species in unsuitable habitats. The owner would get any species, with little question or education being directed at the purchaser. This is blatant retailer irresponsibility, treating fish like a disposable resource and limitless income generator. In outlets like this one, it’s safe to assume that a large portion of the livestock sold, doesn’t survive long. Naturally, the shop was filled with tanks containing diseased, and dying specimens.
Multiply this by 100, and you have an idea of what Petco, and other big box retailers, are doing to the reef aquarium industry. Irresponsibility on the part of local fish stores is bad, irresponsibility on the part of large chain stores, makes a huge dent and fuels the fire for many Snorkel Bob’s. I’ve never been in a large chain store that does it right. They always have species housed with incompatible animals, they nearly always have coral under inappropriate lighting and more times than not, most of the animals are sick. The worst part, these chains move more aquatic life, than all small retail outlets combined. While the LFS I described is no better, chain stores allow this irresponsibility to run on a massive scale. When reading arguments put forth by Snorkel Bob and his legions of followers, it isn’t long till the words Petco, Pets Mart, or any other chain franchise, start popping up. While it might be possible to have a handful of LFS’s that did business like the one I described, when massive chain stores do it, in nearly every city and large town across the U.S. – the impact on the environment becomes real, and measurable.

CopperLeft.jpg

This fish is sick, this fish is being offered for sale...

What is the issue?

Why do chain stores get it so wrong? Is it because the aquatics departments are managed by people who know nothing about marine aquariums. Do they simply not care? Is there a lack of education on the part of the company, in training people how to care for aquatic life? Perhaps, it’s a bit of both, or maybe it’s simply a numbers game. Retail outlets look at sales, above and before everything else. I know, I was a manager for a large retailer, while still in college. When the metal meets the meat, it doesn’t matter what you’re selling, how good a product it is or customer satisfaction, all that matters is units moved and money made. The source of the product, its sustainability or how well it functions, really means nothing in lieu of sales numbers.

This is alright, I guess, when you’re focusing on a television, or a vacuum, or a home care product. In the aquarium industry, we are talking about marine life, one of planet Earth’s most valuable treasures. Schools of fish and hundreds of acres of coral exist, it would seem to a layperson like it could last forever, even if tens of thousands of animals were taken each year for the aquarium trade. The problem today, the oceans face a massive blast of stress. These resilient ecosystems, which have survived on Earth since the inception of life, today they are getting hit from nearly all angles. Over fishing is pulling large pelagic fish from the sea, at a tremendous waste and killing countless species as by-catch. Pollution has created islands of plastic trash, and now, based on rock found in Hawaii, plastic is working its way so deeply into marine ecosystems, that rock partially made from plastic may be entered into the fossil record. That’s right, our trash, may likely become part of the fossil record.
Due to climate change, the oceans are getting warmer. As aquarists we know, any increase in temperature can wreak havoc on sensitive corals. If the rising heat wasn’t enough, ocean water is getting more acidic, making it hard, if not impossible, for corals and invertebrates to properly grow their skeletons and shells. When you see the stress placed on the ocean listed out, the aquarium industry seems like a small ripple in the massive wave that hits our ocean daily. Reality is, the effect of aquarium collection is largely unknown, but it appears the Snorkel Bobs of the world don’t want to pick a fight with the behemoth that is commercial fishing, so they settle for the aquarium industry instead.

So we are taking animals from a threatened, ecologically invaluable ecosystem, placing them in captivity, and we’re shocked someone in the conservation community took notice. Our argument is that by placing these animals in captivity, we open up the wonder of a coral reef to people, whom otherwise, would never see one, possibly inspiring them to take up the mantle of marine conservation. It’s a sound argument, if it wasn’t for large retailers, like Petco, tearing it apart by selling aquatic life, to uneducated and misinformed hobbyist and failing to maintain marine fish properly, while in their stores.

Petsmart1.jpg

"Yeah, I dun transferred here from McDonalds. Them fish, wonder if they eat nuggets?"

What needs to change?

As a scuba diver, I look at the dive industry as a prime example of a well regulated machine, when it comes to the ocean. There is essentially no law that says you have to be a certified diver, to dive, but PADI (a private organization) has set high standards for sport divers, and dive professionals. They also have a conservation arm that teaches responsible diving practices, with a mantra of, “Leave only bubbles.†The standards for their dive masters and instructors is high, requiring copious in the water and in the classroom training, which often needs renewed on a regular basis. It works, and it’s rare that you hear about a diving related incident that results in injury or death, even though divers encounter large oceanic predators on a near daily basis, worldwide. If you were to look at a successful dive, in the same light as a marine fish for sale, the diving industry would have a 95-99 percent success rate, the marine aquarium industry struggles to maintain 20%. According to current statistics, for every 100 marine fish imported into the trade, 80 will die.

For a long time, the marine aquarium trade ran wild. They collected wherever, whenever and from whomever was the cheapest. This led to cyanide capture of aquarium fish, devastation of coral reefs, and a plethora of marine life harvested in a manner that doomed its chances of survival once in an aquarium. Things have gotten better. Regions have outlawed cyanide capture, the Marine Aquarium Council has taught harvesters safe and effective capture of marine fish and corals and aqua cultured livestock is starting to take the place of previously wild caught specimens. Though, when talking to the manager of a local Petco’s aquatics department, I learned that they are told to buy species from the cheapest vendors and largely ignore MAC certified specimens, since they commonly are more expensive and don’t sell well. I asked about aqua cultured livestock, and while they do carry some, it’s often limited as customers are unlikely to pay the higher cost, and cannot understand why a captive raised fish, is more expensive than one wild caught. A large chain, moving hundreds of thousands of fish each year, ignoring how those fish were collected, bargain hunting for the cheapest price. Then placing said livestock in unsuitable conditions, managed by untrained personnel and selling them to misled aquarists. It’s a wonder the industry can maintain a 20% success rate.

First, large retailers should sell only sustainable and safely harvested livestock. If small aqua culture facilities can afford to visit collection areas, (such as the Solomon Islands, Bali, etc) so can Petco. Their aquatics manager needs to be an aquarist, and needs to be paid based on their experience and knowledge. A real job, with a real salary and real benefits. Live Aquaria’s diver’s den is largely successful because of Kevin Kohen, and I doubt he works for $ 7.25 an hour. They need managers not only passionate about aquatic life, but versed in properly keeping animals, long term, in a marine aquarium. The aquatic managers of each store, need to visit collection stations so that they understand how the animals they sell are collected, and can work with experts, to employ successful transit back to the United States.

Large chains need to listen to their aquatic experts, and only sell species that offer a high degree of success in the aquarium. If a customer wants an Achilles Tang, or Moorish Idol, the store needs to learn about their aquarium system and offer real advice, follow-up and assistance, into the animal’s quarantine, care and long-term health. Quarantine system packages should be sold at a large discount. Perhaps more aquarists would implement quarantine, if it were cheaper. Large scale discounts on quarantine tanks would help, and requiring them for customers who want difficult species wouldn’t be a bad idea. Hold aquatics workshops on everything from coral and fish quarantine and treatment, on up to coral fragging. Free workshops are educational, and help your aquatics expert earn their salary. Follow-up with customers is crucial and could help a big box retailer establish a measurement of success, to find out what works and also allows them to be a part of their customer’s aquarium and experience with underwater animals. All of these methods require a qualified aquatics expert, and those people are out there.

All of these would make positive steps in the right direction. They would strengthen the aquarium industry’s argument against harsh critics, which seek the total shutdown of marine animal collection. Not only would these practices be beneficial, they would be profitable, and help prevent a marine aquarium from becoming a dust collector in someone’s garage, at the end of a long road of dead animals. Though, all of this costs money, which makes accountants and profit projection analysis queasy. As I said before, for large retailers, everything is a numbers game. A fish that cost $ 5 being sold for $ 60, dying and being replaced looks good on an excel spreadsheet. Though, if large retailers don’t lead the way to a better, more sustainable marine hobby, the government may implement rules that require them to, or worse yet, limit aquarium collection and import, making it tough to be an amateur aquarist.

HUBAquar.jpg

Maybe if big box retail CEO's would use that muscle between their ears, we would see more of this...


Aquarium008-1.jpg

and less of this ....
 

Jonreefer

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its opposite in my area. There is a Fish store that has been in business for past 35years. Its a specialty store that is all aquatic. The prices there are about eye popping stupid anymore. the people who run the saltwater section probably wouldnt know if they stuck a saltwater in a freshwater tank. The fish always seem to have ich and are generally not that great looking. My local petco has fish WAY more healthy and all but 1 of my fish came from there and they have all been i perfect health. I was never one to buy from petco before but in this case I do cause they have better fish and prices are 10000x cheaper. Each one is operated by its owner so they take decent care here. not like the fish store that has 9-10 rose bubble melting away under T8 bulbs and they still are asking $130 each.
 

miyags

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I bet its more like 90% don't live a full life.So Sad,But So True.
 

Outoftheflames

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Not all petcos are created equal.The Petco store here is the best store in town for Saltwater fish and coral. The tanks are clean and the staff are very knowledgeable and helpful. Many of them have home tanks themselves and have taught the rest of the crew. Now on the other hand the Local private LFS is filthy. The tanks are rarely cleaned and the Staff expect you to not only "self serve" often ask if you'll help out another customer.
Just sayin.. kinda sucks everyone "bashes" Petco all the time when they are all not the same..
 

HammerMama

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In defense of the big box stores:

Not all of them are bad. My husband has worked in the retail pet industry for 15+ years now. He started out at a LFS and moved on to a big box store because, well, the pay + benefits was better. He knows MORE about fish than our LFS and is polite also (which our LFS is filled with very rude and nasty employees, starting with the owner himself). Some of the big chain retailers DO have employees that know what they're talking about. Most do not. You just have to "test the waters" so to speak.

My husbands dream is to open a pet store, heavy on the aquatics portion but we just don't have the overhead needed. So we're setting up some breeding tanks (Fresh water) and we're going to see if we can get a small start on our own.
 

CUBER14

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Lets just say uneducated people in either a big box store or LFS do more damage than can ever be told. Not just killing and selling diseased and inappropriate fish but turning people away from a great hobby with bad advice.
 

Tattoo

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With all due respect to the original poster this is the same "Bashing" Walmart gets day in and day out. Once you posted a degrading picture of a Petco employee with a demeaning comment coming from a McDonald's ex-employee you lost the point you were trying to make with this post with me. Some of the worst offenders I have seen in this hobby happen to be LFS that care not about the well being of their livestock or customers and won't offer any warranty on saltwater fish or corals. Dirty tanks and ich infested fish for sale because the owner won't get away from behind the register unless it's for a sale. YES I have been into Petco stores where I had to find a store manager and complain about their tanks. Unfortunately it is ALL these stores that get it WRONG and we all know that all it takes is one picture of a dead "Nemo" to be used against our hobby and make us seem like reef destroyers in the eyes of those not aware of pains we all go through from selecting our livestock and creating a home away from home for our fish and corals to live a long healthy and maybe even happy life as part of our own family. I have been a diver for over 40 years and have been keeping aquariums longer than that. These animal rights organizations will never be pleased until there are no more captive fish and corals in any of our tank so I stay away from trying to address their cause. But it is much easier to attack a Petco store in their eyes than unknown local fish stores so that's where they go on their attack. As responsible hobbyist it is our duty to educate others about our hobby and and of how fragging corals has contributed to an endless supply of those corals without destroying a reef. How coral farms now grow corals and other inverts in the same islands where the reefs were once plundered for the same. Unfortunately not all fish can be bred in captivity so the collection of wild caught fish will continue to take place as long as we the collector desires those species. I'm not sure of the quoted number of death in captivity quoted, but I would love to see the percentage quote for fish that die of disease and natural predation in the wild. But I guess those were happy deaths??
 

Reef_Obsessed

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I have seen boths cases...some Petco stores have great-looking tank and fish and others are terrible. Same goes for LFS...I know of a few that are great and some that are awful...as a rule of thumb, If the store looks like crap, I will not buy there. I try to build a relationship with the LFS guys with the awesome stores moreso than big box stores. My stock in my tank has come from both [good] Petco's and LFS with no issues. This Snorkel Bob has no idea what he is talking about...aquarium enthusiasts do more for the ocean biodiversity, both fish and coral, than any activists or foundations could ever do!
 

SoulOfCoal

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To be fair...

Many petstores have stopped selling saltwater fish and corals in my area, mostly because of the listed reasons. The loss of revenue from people not buying them in the first place might be one thing, but when stuff dies off far too quickly, that's another. It costs too much for them to maintain when nobody's buying.

Usually it's for the obvious reason: nobody knows how to care for them right. Virtually all PetCo's in my area have stopped, PetSmart never started, and only Pets Plus has retained the ability, but their ability has failed in the last few years (they had some of the most fantastic coral displays I've seen).

As it stands, the only place I've found quality stock would be The Hidden Reef, a place that 'specializes' in fish, coral, and fish supplies. The people are generally knowledgeable, and if they're not (you'll see more than a few part-time teenagers working there, but that's because they keep over a hundred tanks and someone has to maintain them), they will usually help you find someone who is. The only reason they ever moved away from my area was due to a fire next to their place that destroyed their entire stock. It took them almost a decade, but they're back in business with fantastic displays and weekly restocking

That's not to say that they don't make stupid choices for their purchases or sales also. I couldn't believe coming in one time to find a eight-inch zebra mantis shrimp in the main display, 'thwack'ing at the glass any time a kid put his hand on it.
 
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reeffirstaid

reeffirstaid

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What seperates Petco (or any chain franchise), in many cases, from an LFS, and why I chose to focus the article on them, is that they are a corporation. Sure, here and there, you can find a Petco that has hired a marine fish guru, and does an okay job with their saltwater fish. IME, it's typically a wal-mart of saltwater fish, poorly maintained and the staff in a state of unconsciousness regarding the product. Petco and others, are corporations that have corporate rules, based around bottom line dollar amounts. Sure, some smiles will flash around the table when things are done well, and a customer is happy, but in the end, profits are what matter. I know the manager of a Petco's aquatics department who was reprimanded for offering too much advice. In the end, he was told to sell animals, regardless whether or not they could be successful with them, in hopes that if they failed, they would replace it with another. He quit.

Reef gurus aren't going to seek out Petco or any franchise for employment, because of this corporate structure, and their reputation among serious hobbyists. There are many LFS's that are just as bad, and as I said in the article, I can count on one hand the places where I feel comfortable getting livestock. The bar is set very low, but reality is, it won't be raised because raising it means sacrificing profit for real service, advice and smart sales. A CEO can't get a 4 million dollar Christmas bonus if little Joey isn't selling someone an Emperor Angelfish for his 30 gallon tank. A program that really educates employees about reef aquariums, well that would cost too. It's much easier to toss an issue of TFH their way, hope they read it, and make a cheap printout with colorful pictures and watered down information.

The stores that do it right, are run by people who value success of the consumer, over money. They are out there, but they are also rare. If legislation that restricts marine aquariums due to environmental impact is ever passed, (some regarding collection have already been) it will be the chain franchises that are the majority contributors to the problem. When an industry fails to regulate itself, and puts profit over the environment, its customers, or simple ethics - the government often steps in, and tightens the reins on everybody.

I don't find the picture, or McDonald's reference degrading. Just this weekend, I watched a Petco employee sell someone a clown trigger and algae flakes. They were out of the other marine flakes, so he told them the algae ones would work, tell they got more in. In this instance, perhaps the nuggets would be better.
 
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SpartaReef

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another big issue that ties into this is pricing... the more money people are willing to spend the higher the price will go and add to that the compounding effect of recouping costs from losses...

no wonder the hobby is so expensive.
 

Jonreefer

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Apparently you just have something against petco. LFS 9 out of 10times are really no better just cause they are mostly aquatic and have more selection and have employees that think they know what they are talking about but are no better then what you are claiming from petco. The LFS try to sell their fish for 3x the price. Very few of them atleast around here have really healthy animals most are just as bad just in a overall better looking setups. I mean the LFS in my area is trying to sell green chromis for $20 each what the heck..and like I said most of their fish have ICH and they have been in buisness for over 30years. They run the place exactly like a big box store. All in it for the money and can care less if something dies instead of selling it cheaper.
Did you get fired from petco or something that you have a hard on for them and try and point fingers at them.
 

cdness

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I have seen good and bad Local Fish Stores as well as good and bad Petcos. Minnetonka MN has one of the nicest saltwater setups available at the Petco stores. We have an awesome LFS in Fargo called Midwest Aquarium Services. I will not mention names, but I have personally seen box stores and LFSs that are sub par. It should be encouraged to educate at these places so they know the right way to care for the fish.

On a second note, I would like to see some references in this article for the statistics used. In the article you list generalizations along side statistics with no reference. You say "where are Snorkel Bob and others getting their statistics" but I need to ask the same thing because anyone who understands statistics knows that they can be manipulated to prove ANY point. That's why you can generally hear people say "50% of the time the statistics are approximately 40% correct and in favor of our argument"... In the end, the only think the article supports is what Snorkel Bob and the Sea Terrorists have put out there to generate emotional and political traction with people who are willing to follow them unquestioned like lemmings off a cliff...

Just to toss out some extra information here...

In September 2010, Coral Magazine ran a Marine Fish Survival Survey and posted updated results in February of 2012. In this survey it asked aquarists some basic questions about fish in their tanks.
http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/marine-fish-survival-survey-results

Another article released September 2010 by Dr. Neale Monks talks about the attack on the hobby and if it is really as dark as people say it is: Is this really a ?Dark Hobby?? - Captive Aquatics: An Aquarium and Ecology Blog This article even has a response posted from Mr Snorkel Bob as well as local Hawaii fisherman with differing opinions.

Additional data located here: http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/files/files/mortality.pdf

and here: Kona Aquarium Collector Impact Study

Part 6 in a series about inshore fi sh of Hawaii. The 12-part series is a project of the Hawaii Fisheries Local Action Strategy. - http://www.hawaiicoralreefstrategy.com/PDFs/7_Fisheries_Completed/6_FISHLIFE_YellowTang.pdf

The Sea Shepherd site is full of loosely tied numbers, estimates and assumptions of the aquarium trade. Any time a person uses estimates, people need to read this as an OPINION and not fact as facts can be backed up. I personally can disprove many claims made by this organization and I urge everyone to not take what they say as fact and do your own research.
 
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seamus2050

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reeffirstaid, I respect your articulation of the topic. However, you come across as "I hate all big corporatins", turn-off to base topic discussion. As for activists like Sea Sheppards, they sure burn a lot of fuel saving the plane (must buy carbon credits). Since they are the finger pointers they get to decide which is the lesser of two evils.
 

ETORRES477

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With all due respect to the original poster this is the same "Bashing" Walmart gets day in and day out. Once you posted a degrading picture of a Petco employee with a demeaning comment coming from a McDonald's ex-employee you lost the point you were trying to make with this post with me.
+1 on this statement. The original poster railed against ignorance, then added in some of his or her own ignorance. Posting a pic with a demeaning caption of some poor unsuspecting individual whom I am sure the poster knows nothing about, even less cool. I am a medical professional, but I know some people who work for McDonalds who are hard working people. Also know some people who work at big box stores who actually know what they are talking about. Word of advice for the poster, if your going to post about something you are passionate about and want people to take you seriously lay off the sarcastic and demeaning statements, it takes away from your point and just makes you look immature, petty, and mean spirited. As far as Snorkel Bob goes, just a bunch of white noise. Him and his group will be about as successful as PETA is trying to ban people from owning any pet. Too much money in this industry for there to be a ban placed on it. With that said, those of us who take this hobby seriously should try to help educate others who enter the hobby with good intentions on ethical marine husbandry. We should also advocate for responsible ethical collection methods for anything that goes into our tanks.
 
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reeffirstaid

reeffirstaid

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Well, for just making white noise, Snorkel Bob is doing a good job, considering that two Hawaii counties have passed non-binding resolutions supporting a statewide ban on aquarium collection. Also, the state Division of Aquatic Resources is considering less restrictive regulations, though is still limiting the types of fish that can be collected.

cdness, here are some sources:

?Snorkel Bob? steps up protests over Petco?s sale of reef fish - Hawaii Insider

Finding statiscal data regarding the percentage of captured marine fish that die each year, is easy. Here are some links.

Shocking ? 98 percent of Marine Fish Die Each Year En Route to Aquariums | One Green Planet
WWF-Philippines
Trouble in Paradise: Coral Reefs at Risk : The Humane Society of the United States

This is an article that was published in Scientific American:
Tropical Depression: Your Saltwater Fish Tank May Be Killing the Ocean - Scientific American

Regarding Petco specifically:

Reef Alliance Takes PETCO Protest to O?ahu - Maui?s Weekly Online and Television News Program
A New Collaboration for Coral Reefs - Defenders of Wildlife Blog
Collecting Gone Wild | Defenders of Wildlife

This regards lawsuits toward petco for poor animal care:

PetCo being Sued for Poor Animal Care : General Reefkeeping Discussion

This is a link regarding an investigation into Petco, based on other animals, not marine fish or corals

Investigating Petco

This was posted by Reef Builders:

Stop buying saltwater fish from PETCO

To address the notion that Sea Shepherd, whom Snorkel Bob is vice president of, is a group that doesn't get results. Have you seen the Animal Planet show Whale Wars? It is based around Sea Shepherd's Antarctic campaign to end Japanese Whaling. Well last year, they succeeded in a ban, as the United Nations issued a ban on all commercial whaling, ruling that Japan's claim it was scientific, was malarkey.

UN Court Orders Japan to End Whaling as Hunt Is Not Scientific - Bloomberg

If they can get the UN to issue a ban on an entire nation, for a terrible environmental practice, I would assume they could possibly make a serious dent on aquarium fish and coral collection, along with regulations regarding keeping marine aquariums. Any amount of research into Snorkel Bob's campaign against marine aquariums, will turn up lots of information regarding its success and lots of information regarding Petco and other retail chains used as the basis for arguments on how the marine aquarium hobby effects natural coral reefs.

For the "demeaning" McDonalds post and picture - I would say that has been taken out of context ... big time ... largely because those who it bothered, don't like content that suggests Petco may be adding fuel to the conservationist fire against marine aquariums. McDonalds has nothing to do with this argument, though the image was to illustrate that there are times, large retail chains place people in charge of marine aquariums, with little to no background or knowledge regarding them. There is nothing demeaning about the reality, that it is very possible that if all retailers don't do a better job, from front to back, regarding the marine fish and reef aquarium industry, we all will suffer due to legislative acts. That's a fact.
 

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