What pests do you see in your LFS, and are there any you are willing to ignore?

[ebranger]

I have three LFSs within a 45-minute drive of me. One, always seems to have sick and dying fish in many of the 30+ saltwater tanks. I’ve stopped going there, which is a shame, as they used to be a great shop and still have a huge fish and coral selection.

The other two are smaller, but have also been around for many yers and seem to have a great reputation.

One, I will buy fish from and have always been happy with the fish purchased their. They have a pretty great coral selection, but their 6 coral tanks always have aiptasia growing in them. Not a lot, but enough that I’ve been hesitant to buy anything.

The other, in both the coral and fish tanks, have visible Asterina starfish issues. Not a ton, but enough that I haven’t bought anything from them.

Am I paranoid or right to shy away from them. What other pests should I keep an eye out for and be leery of (aside from obvious ich and fish parasites/diseases)?

 

[elysics]

If there's a few aiptasia here and there, maybe even an impressively big one, I don't care, as long as no entire tanks are riddled with them. It's pointless to avoid anyway, you'll get them sooner or later. Unless they let them touch corals, that's bad.

When i see a flatworm infestation, i don't buy and come back in a month or so, don't need that headache. Depends on how convincing they can tell me that that was a sudden issue and not neglect

Have asterinas in my own tank so right now i don't care, but if i didn't, i'd at the very least go over every frag with a loupe and wouldn't buy stuff with cavities i couldn't inspect

Nudibranches that aren't in the tank on purpose: big NO, turn around, leave the store.

 

[MaxTremors]

I’m not worried about aiptasia or asterinas. I wouldn’t buy something covered in aiptasias, but I’m not worried about there being a few in a vendor’s tanks. It’s nearly impossible for a vendor to keep common pests out of their tanks unless they’re quarantining and growing out corals to then sell, if they’re importing coral it’s unrealistic to expect them to be completely pest free.

The asterinas are fine, I think they’re beneficial. I know some people claim they eat coral, but there’s never been definitive proof and in 20+ years of keeping reef tanks I’ve never had an asterina (and I’ve had 4-5 different species, there are only 5-6 species in the hobby) eat any of my corals. I suppose it’s possible, but I think it’s something that people just repeat without actually experiencing it or they have a coral that’s already dying and they see an asterina nearby and blame it (they will eat dead coral tissue). I know some people have them reach plague proportions, but IME that only happens if you’re over feeding. Otherwise, they’re a beneficial member of my CuC.

I do look out for flatworms/planaria, zoa spiders, monti-eating nudibranchs, and some of the actually dangerous pests. I don’t quarantine corals, but I do dip them. I’m not bothered about bristle worms, spaghetti worms, stomatellas, limpets, etc.

Overall, I think that since the hobby has moved towards using dry rock people have become overly paranoid about hitchhikers and pests. I started out using high quality live rock, and just recently started my first tank with dry rock, and I absolutely hate it. For me, part of what makes a reef tank so interesting is all of the microfauna and life that comes in on liverock and frags/colonies, I like creating a complex ecosystem/food chain, I don’t want a sterile, hitchhiker-free tank.

Anyway, that’s my take, to answer your question directly, no it doesn’t bother me if a vendor has some aiptasias or asterinas (technically not Asterina, they are Aquilonastra). Their presence isn’t really a sign of whether or not their tanks and/or livestock is healthy. Again, I think it’s unrealistic and unreasonable to expect a vendor that is importing corals to have completely hitchhiker/pest free tanks.

 

[Joe462]

I have three LFSs within a 45-minute drive of me. One, always seems to have sick and dying fish in many of the 30+ saltwater tanks. I’ve stopped going there, which is a shame, as they used to be a great shop and still have a huge fish and coral selection.

The other two are smaller, but have also been around for many yers and seem to have a great reputation.

One, I will buy fish from and have always been happy with the fish purchased their. They have a pretty great coral selection, but their 6 coral tanks always have aiptasia growing in them. Not a lot, but enough that I’ve been hesitant to buy anything.

The other, in both the coral and fish tanks, have visible Asterina starfish issues. Not a ton, but enough that I haven’t bought anything from them.

Am I paranoid or right to shy away from them. What other pests should I keep an eye out for and be leery of (aside from obvious ich and fish parasites/diseases)?

I don't like the aptasia but it doesn't scare me that much, i have dealt with it before and its not a deal breaker (a couple visible specimens), unless the tank is infested, then i probably would just avoid that store in general.

i'm not going to worry about asterina starfish either. i have them in my tanks and they don't bother any of my corals, i had a strain that ate zoanthids before but then i eradicated the starfish in that tank with a harlequin shrimp.

I'm much more concerned with the kind of stuff that are hard to see. flatworms ( the kind that eat coral, not the little ghost ones or little red ones, those don't worry me either), red bugs, other kinds of small hard to get rid of coral eating pests.

So always dip, be cautious of imported coral, or a store that imports a lot of coral (meaning inspect them carefully and dip dip dip), and never buy a coral that doesn't look healthy unless you are going to be able to observe/quarantine it away from your other coral. did i mention dipping your coral purchases? Dipping isn't fool proof but its about the best defense we have. and the ability to quarantine is nice if you have the space/resources.

 

[elysics]

but I think it’s something that people just repeat without actually experiencing it

I have personally seen them crawl ontop healthy zoa polyps and sit on it's mouth like a facehugger. Like 10+ times at least. If i pull them off theres an injury on the zoa. I have pictures somewhere but it would take a while to find them, posted that in another thread.

It's always the same coloration of asterina though, i have multiple varieties

 

[elysics]

Nice coincidence, just took a look into my tank, here you go

 

[ahiggins]

I fall more into OPs camp. I’ve worked too hard on my tanks to bring in pests.
List of no’s for me: aiptasia, flatworms, spiders/pox/etc on zoas, sick or dead fish in displays, massive algae growth on frags.
I don’t mind asterina as they’re pretty easy to cure if you don’t introduce them.
I have 4 LFS near me (between 30-60 min). Two always have dead fish, bleached nems, and/or bad husbandry. So I never go there. Of the remaining two, one is a “commercialized” store that sells everything from lizards to salt to fresh and they hire teenagers that don’t know what they’re doing and the other is absolutely wonderful but also new so I’m worried they are a little more sensitive to the economy. Of course it happens to be the ones that’s furthest away

 

[ahiggins]

Nice coincidence, just took a look into my tank, here you go

Agreed-I’ve seen them take out a quarter size chunk of a colony of mine in the past.

 

[Zoa_Fanatic]

I’m not worried about aiptasia or asterinas. I wouldn’t buy something covered in aiptasias, but I’m not worried about there being a few in a vendor’s tanks. It’s nearly impossible for a vendor to keep common pests out of their tanks unless they’re quarantining and growing out corals to then sell, if they’re importing coral it’s unrealistic to expect them to be completely pest free.

The asterinas are fine, I think they’re beneficial. I know some people claim they eat coral, but there’s never been definitive proof and in 20+ years of keeping reef tanks I’ve never had an asterina (and I’ve had 4-5 different species, there are only 5-6 species in the hobby) eat any of my corals. I suppose it’s possible, but I think it’s something that people just repeat without actually experiencing it or they have a coral that’s already dying and they see an asterina nearby and blame it (they will eat dead coral tissue). I know some people have them reach plague proportions, but IME that only happens if you’re over feeding. Otherwise, they’re a beneficial member of my CuC.

I do look out for flatworms/planaria, zoa spiders, monti-eating nudibranchs, and some of the actually dangerous pests. I don’t quarantine corals, but I do dip them. I’m not bothered about bristle worms, spaghetti worms, stomatellas, limpets, etc.

Overall, I think that since the hobby has moved towards using dry rock people have become overly paranoid about hitchhikers and pests. I started out using high quality live rock, and just recently started my first tank with dry rock, and I absolutely hate it. For me, part of what makes a reef tank so interesting is all of the microfauna and life that comes in on liverock and frags/colonies, I like creating a complex ecosystem/food chain, I don’t want a sterile, hitchhiker-free tank.

Anyway, that’s my take, to answer your question directly, no it doesn’t bother me if a vendor has some aiptasias or asterinas (technically not Asterina, they are Aquilonastra). Their presence isn’t really a sign of whether or not their tanks and/or livestock is healthy. Again, I think it’s unrealistic and unreasonable to expect a vendor that is importing corals to have completely hitchhiker/pest free tanks.

Asterina eat zoa. Seen it first hand. Watched the little dudes expel their stomachs and digest my dragonseyes. Been my mission to exterminate them from my tank since.

on a side note, I overlook aptasia completely. Unless what you want is completely infested you can kill a few of them no problem.

I do not overlook bristle worms. I despise these guys and vermitid snails. But again those are East pests to get off a frag.

 

[Zoa_Fanatic]

Nice coincidence, just took a look into my tank, here you go

The ones that ate my Zoa looked like this. I’ve had pure white ones and they’re safe. Also a kind that was greenish on the back and were fine.

 

[MaxTremors]

Nice coincidence, just took a look into my tank, here you go

I’m not trying to argue or doubt you, but an asterina on a zoanthid is not proof that it’s eating it. It most certainly would irritate it. I understand not giving them the benefit of the doubt if you’re worried about it, but personally I need definitive proof before I’m going to make such a claim. There is nothing in the scientific literature about them eating corals, it seems to me like it would be an easy thing to definitively prove. Can you take more clear pictures of the before and after (even if not right now, the next time you see an asterina on or near a coral)? I’d genuinely love see proof, this is something that’s been debated forever.

 

[Joe462]

I’m not trying to argue or doubt you, but an asterina on a zoanthid is not proof that it’s eating it. It most certainly would irritate it. I understand not giving them the benefit of the doubt if you’re worried about it, but personally I need definitive proof before I’m going to make such a claim. There is nothing in the scientific literature about them eating corals, it seems to me like it would be an easy thing to definitively prove. Can you take more clear pictures of the before and after (even if not right now, the next time you see an asterina on or near a coral)? I’d genuinely love see proof, this is something that’s been debated forever.

I know this isnt any kind of proof but im confident that i had a type that ate zoas, they didn't eat every variety of zoa but they ate most of them. i would pick them of the zoa stem or head and there were clearly holes and damaged flesh, initially i used that to try and get rid of them. i would put a frag of zoas in that tank in by moring there would be several asterinas on the zoas, not near them or on the plug but on the zoas, i would pick them off and do it again the next morning, and if i checked them several times a day the zoas would start to heal but then i would forget and they would get all gnawed to hell. I never took any pictures, i should have. I never had any issues before that started happening and i haven't had it happen since i put a harlequin shrimp in that tank and eliminated them. I don't have the shrimp anymore but i also haven't seen the starfish eat any zoas since then.

so my opinion is that most of the varieties are totally harmless but i think there is a variety or strain that does eat zoas or maybe they only eat them when there isn't enough food. I have never seen any of the ones i have now do anything harmful to a coral. i also think the ones that were eating zoas had a slightly different coloration then most that i see.

 

[muzikalmatt]

I have two LFS within 15 minutes of me and they both have visible pests in their tanks, things like aiptasia and bubble algae. With my current tank, I'm not really worried about those issues as I've already had them in my tank. Those pests have been pretty manageable for me. For future tanks I might be a bit more wary. I'd be more concerned if I saw pests like flatworms, nudis, vermetids, or zoa spiders.

As far as fish are concerned, one LFS quarantines their fish and one doesn't so I try to purchase from the one that does.

In the end I still dip my corals and try to quarantine my fish, so seeing minor pests in LFS tanks is not a deal breaker for me.

 

[Lyss]

Here’s my thing. I expect pests we can’t see — it would be unrealistic to think any tank is 100% pest-free 100% of the time. But the ones you can easily see just make me feel like the store isn’t on top of maintenance, and that kinda makes me feel not great about buying a lot of valuable stuff from them.

I do have one LFS that I use primarily for FW and they’re really great for that, but any time I would check out their saltwater tanks there was algae everywhere. Frag tanks and everything, all over corals. Looked like no one could even be bothered to keep them nice. No thanks.

I’m also not totally scared of pests. It is what it is. I’ve experienced the same w/my houseplants and initially was terrified of getting pests, but then the worst happened and I just took care of it. I think it’s a giant pain to have to take care of it, but it comes w/the territory.