What diseases can last on a fish the longest?

[fishywishy]

i do a observational quarantine for 76 days and only dose the tank with prazi pro to get rid of and flukes because i heard they last the longest on fish, but could harsh parasites like brook, velvet, ich, and internal parasites survive or lay dormant on a fish without the fish showing symptoms for that amount of time and what diseases can last the longest on fish?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Nobody really knows, (but a lot of people guess about this) that's why I don't recommend purely observation quarantine except for certain delicate species like flashlight fish and dragonets that cannot be easily managed through a regular quarantine.

Flukes can exist on fish, unseen, as chronic infections for literally years. Then, if something stresses those fish out, or you add new fish to the tank, the infection can become acute and you see disease symptoms. I've had ich show up 6 months after the last fish was added to a system, so I know it can remain as a chronic infection for at least that long. Amyloodinium (velvet) probably does not remain as a chronic infection for nearly as long. Brooklynella and Uronema almost always show up only in new fish, so your 76 days should be good for those two.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

My guess would be ich and worms/flukes

 

[fishywishy]

Nobody really knows, (but a lot of people guess about this) that's why I don't recommend purely observation quarantine except for certain delicate species like flashlight fish and dragonets that cannot be easily managed through a regular quarantine.

Flukes can exist on fish, unseen, as chronic infections for literally years. Then, if something stresses those fish out, or you add new fish to the tank, the infection can become acute and you see disease symptoms. I've had ich show up 6 months after the last fish was added to a system, so I know it can remain as a chronic infection for at least that long. Amyloodinium (velvet) probably does not remain as a chronic infection for nearly as long. Brooklynella and Uronema almost always show up only in new fish, so your 76 days should be good for those two.

Jay

How long would velvet last? And will prazi pro kill flukes?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How long would velvet last? And will prazi pro kill flukes?

Nobody knows for sure about velvet, probably 45 days without a host.

Prazipro treats flukes, but because it does not kill unmatched eggs, multiple treatments are needed - usually two or three spaced 8 days apart.

Jay

 

[fishywishy]

Nobody knows for sure about velvet, probably 45 days without a host.

Prazipro treats flukes, but because it does not kill unmatched eggs, multiple treatments are needed - usually two or three spaced 8 days apart.

Jay

What will kill the unmatched eggs and would copper kill flukes?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

What will kill the unmatched eggs and would copper kill flukes?

Nothing kills the unlatched eggs that won’t also kill the fish. Luckily, the eggs can’t last forever without hatching. If they hatch and don’t find a host, the larva dies rapidly. Any larva that hatch with prazi in the water die. Copper just doesn’t work on flukes.
Jay

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

How long would velvet last? And will prazi pro kill flukes?

Velvet will outlast your observation only qt until it kills the fish and has no host.

Why did you choose 76 days for observational qt? That's the (long) FALLOW period aka Fishless for crypto. If you've got the fish in the quarantine, it isn't hostless/fallow and the parasite could very well be present at day 576 much less 76.

Observation doesn't guarantee a fish is free of ick/velvet any more than a small spoon will help someone lose weight. It just tells you the infection is not showing rapidly. Any stress triggers can change that quickly.

Moving a fish from qt into a display tank is a stress trigger. Go figure.

 

[fishywishy]

Velvet will outlast your observation only qt until it kills the fish and has no host.

Why did you choose 76 days for observational qt? That's the (long) FALLOW period aka Fishless for crypto. If you've got the fish in the quarantine, it isn't hostless/fallow and the parasite could very well be present at day 576 much less 76.

Observation doesn't guarantee a fish is free of ick/velvet any more than a small spoon will help someone lose weight. It just tells you the infection is not showing rapidly. Any stress triggers can change that quickly.

Moving a fish from qt into a display tank is a stress trigger. Go figure.

Just curious is 76 days fallow long enough for things like ich and velvet to die?

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Just curious is 76 days fallow long enough for things like ich and velvet to die?

Based on the best data we have, yes.

 

[fishywishy]

Observation doesn't guarantee a fish is free of ick/velvet any more than a small spoon will help someone lose weight. It just tells you the infection is not showing rapidly. Any stress triggers can change that quickly

Moving a fish from qt into a display tank is a stress trigger. Go figure.

when I took the fish from the store and put them in my tank wouldn’t the fish have got sick then if they had something? because that would’ve stressed them out as well.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

when I took the fish from the store and put them in my tank wouldn’t the fish have got sick then if they had something? because that would’ve stressed them out as well.

That does happen. But, not every stress event starts an infection, if the fish are carriers, any later stress event can trigger an active infection. Commonly, you can’t tell what the stress event even was.

Jay

 

[Debramb]

That does happen. But, not every stress event starts an infection, if the fish are carriers, any later stress event can trigger an active infection. Commonly, you can’t tell what the stress event even was.

Jay

Hi Jay, just Thank-you and shout out to you, had rather long talk w/Mike, Dr. Reef quarantined fish about my order and told him you and Vetteguy are great with help, I will not quarantine myself again. I followed what I learned, and he does from Humblefish, but I failed. He said you were a nice guy! I follow you for problems I might have with my named fish in DT.
Debra

 

[Debramb]

Hi Jay, just Thank-you and shout out to you, had rather long talk w/Mike, Dr. Reef quarantined fish about my order and told him you and Vetteguy are great with help, I will not quarantine myself again. I followed what I learned, and he does from Humblefish, but I failed. He said you were a nice guy! I follow you for problems I might have with my named fish in DT.
Debra

PS 3 or 4 yrs ago tried 3 Blonde Tangs, 2-3 months apart. Heartbreaking to lose. Haven’t added fish sonde, I had talked w/Dr. Reef and knew I wouldn’t unless from him

 

[Jay Hemdal]

PS 3 or 4 yrs ago tried 3 Blonde Tangs, 2-3 months apart. Heartbreaking to lose. Haven’t added fish sonde, I had talked w/Dr. Reef and knew I wouldn’t unless from him

Blonde nasos have more recently been an issue in terms of hardiness. I didn't realize that this trend extended back that far - was this pre-Covid?

Jay

 

[Debramb]

Blonde nasos have more recently been an issue in terms of hardiness. I didn't realize that this trend extended back that far - was this pre-Covid?

Jay

Oh yeah, they looked good, acclimated into a 20gL all set-up. At first showed typical Naso spots etc, color fading from light to dark, kept on mantle w/no lights pvc pipes for cover. First only nibbled, then no eating and decline, 31/2 wks
Tried different vendor, same thing, again 4-5 in, decline in 2-3 weeks.
Tried 3rd time, Sterile again, this one looked good for 3 weeks, ate very little, found someone from Long Island on eBay who had fresh seaweed, no luck.
Did not see any ich, hille, skin lesions etc. I think I put general cure but waited for symptoms. They all were online, all 4-5 in.
Then I talked to Mike and gave-up till I could buy from him. 4 back surgeries later, my 3 tangs were so happy and healthy I talked to Mark, Meleves Reef about rehome ing them to him, my hippo started acting alittle goofyer than usual when we found whole set-up 125g 6’ long tank. Anywho, Mike spoke highly of you and will definitely reach out if I need help. I asked him about adding “wishlist” to 125, knowing all tangs have a wonderful 400g to go when to big. I got flamed about it, I don’t mind, told it was cruel to rehome, I love raising, feeding and enjoying while can! Any thoughts?
Debra

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Rehoming fish as they grow is a viable option if the fish can be transported safely. I do caution people who haven't really explored rehoming though, and just assumed it would be possible - many times nobody wants the larger fish and then you are stuck.

Jay

 

[Timfish]

Obviously there's still a lot we don't know. Two experinces I've had it show it can take a long time for issues to develop. Both events would have been misssed observing a single fish.

Fisrt event started when I acquired a group of fish from an aquarist shutting down a 300 - 400 gallon system. There were a couple triggers, wrasses and 5 tangs, Yellow, Purple, Sailfin, Powder Blue and Regal. I placed the 5 tangs in seperate systems and gave the triggers and wrasses to othe r aquarists. Over the next year the tangs all started to loose wieght even though the systems were being fed well. After loosing several it clicked it was the group of tangs from the one system that were loosing weight and dying. One I took to a local vet and he necropsied it and sent samples off to specialists. What was identifeid was an internal (not intestinal) parasitic nemotode.

Second event involved a group of 10medium standard Naso tangs. I qted all of them together then distributed them between 9 client's systems. Over a roughly 2 month period around months 6-8 I lost all of them. None gave any indication there was a problem.

FWIW, I've tried different ways of setting up QT systems. Over time I've transitioned form strile systems with just PVC pipe to more natural systems with base rock and live rock. I also will not use copper but do use oversized UV sterilizers. and medications for flukes and intestinal parasites. After 3 or 4 batches of fish have been cycled a QT system will either sit fallow for a very long time (6+ months) or be emptied, cleaned and wiped down with H2O2 and the rock set out to dry.

 

[Debramb]

Obviously there's still a lot we don't know. Two experinces I've had it show it can take a long time for issues to develop. Both events would have been misssed observing a single fish.

Fisrt event started when I acquired a group of fish from an aquarist shutting down a 300 - 400 gallon system. There were a couple triggers, wrasses and 5 tangs, Yellow, Purple, Sailfin, Powder Blue and Regal. I placed the 5 tangs in seperate systems and gave the triggers and wrasses to othe r aquarists. Over the next year the tangs all started to loose wieght even though the systems were being fed well. After loosing several it clicked it was the group of tangs from the one system that were loosing weight and dying. One I took to a local vet and he necropsied it and sent samples off to specialists. What was identifeid was an internal (not intestinal) parasitic nemotode.

Second event involved a group of 10medium standard Naso tangs. I qted all of them together then distributed them between 9 client's systems. Over a roughly 2 month period around months 6-8 I lost all of them. None gave any indication there was a problem.

FWIW, I've tried different ways of setting up QT systems. Over time I've transitioned form strile systems with just PVC pipe to more natural systems with base rock and live rock. I also will not use copper but do use oversized UV sterilizers. and medications for flukes and intestinal parasites. After 3 or 4 batches of fish have been cycled a QT system will either sit fallow for a very long time (6+ months) or be emptied, cleaned and wiped down with H2O2 and the rock set out to dry.

Heartbreaking to lose them, you’re clients are lucky

 

[Debramb]

Rehoming fish as they grow is a viable option if the fish can be transported safely. I do caution people who haven't really explored rehoming though, and just assumed it would be possible - many times nobody wants the larger fish and then you are stuck.

Jay

Yes, I agree, Mark is 20 minutes away!