Watch me kill SPS...

[Skep18]

I'm in the same boat. Just burned through 3 Acro frags, the dragonfruit monti is holding up, and a 2 year acro at the top of my tank is still growing. Getting frustrated as well. I'll share anything I find on my end and hopefully we can all be successful soon

I feel for you too. But hey, at least you have a 2 year acro staying alive in there! Not sure if that makes it easier or harder to evaluate but at least until you find it, you have a coral to look at. lol.

 

[Skep18]

Im in the camp of getting an ICP test, I don’t read anywhere that you did one, I was having similar issues and did a test that came back with high heavy metal contamination, selenium, copper and nickel. could not figure out where the heck it was coming from, then one day as I was adding salt to my very tall water tank I happened to see the heater I had placed in it when I set it up, the wIrving had shorted and the whole unit had fallen down to the bottom of the tank and stayed there for months rotting, until I happened to spot it. been in there so long the black rubber cord was deteriorating, bad thing was after I saw it I remembered when it had fallen down to the bottom but I had just filled it and got the salinity right and wasn’t about to waste all that to get it out, told myself I would get when I used up the water, well that never happened so up go the heavy metal. A 320 gallon tank and I needed months of water changes to get rid of the metals, just did the last one last weekend, but my lates icp test came back clean finally, must have gone thru over 2000 gallons of new water.
one small forgetful moment cost me dearly,and it was something so simple, I guess what I’m saying is don’t over think it, maybe it’s a simple fix.

Yea, I had done an ICP test maybe a year ago. At that time, I was still killing frags and nothing came up crazy. I had chlorine slightly high (21,000 vs the recommended 19,000, whatever the units are). Also Iodine was a little low.

I've tried to stay on top of my heaters. I change them out ahead of time. I have the next one ready to swap in. I don't think that equipment is it but it certainly could be another piece of equipment.

Nonetheless, it sounds like its time to do another ICP just to be sure. I'm still working on getting my salinity back up to at least 35ppt. Once it gets there, I will do one.

Thanks for the feedback. I do appreciate it.

 

[Skep18]

Skep18,
People on here know a lot more than me, but I tried the Photon V2's on my 200 Gal. and just could not get them to work. Went with an ATI 8 bulb T5 and things are looking great. Used VHO's in years past and they would grow anything. Think T5's are even better. This isn't saying LEDs won't grow fantasic tanks., they will. But to eliminate lighting as an issue. you could put a T5 fixture on it and later research and install a great LED system.

Good luck!

Yea, I have a continued internal debate with myself, defending the Photons, wanting to not have been wrong, lol. But with that, there's always that seed of doubt, maybe they have something to do with it.

I am getting two additional T5's in the mail today. My hope is maybe 4/ea T5's could carry enough of the photosynthesis weight to do whatever people say they are good for and the LED's would become "eye candy". Basically balance the lighting further away from the LED's. If confirmed, I would obviously do something to change the lighting at that point but buying a new fixture is kinda deep on my list as thats obviously a little pricey. Definitely not that I am not willing to do it, I just want to find a way to be sure first...

 

[Skep18]

I was trying to get a higher resolution and deleted the video. Here’s the link again

I did have my mp40s on gyre at 20% on sync but I found it created some dead spots. I’m now using the reefcrest on anti sync at 50% and my acros seem to really love it. The PE isn’t quite as good at the higher flow but it’s still pretty good. Your recollection is correct that I thought reefcrest mode caused some rtn but I later realized that it was probably from a flucozanole treatment.

Just wanted to say you have a gorgeous tank there. Know that I am very jealous, lol.

 

[Skep18]

Have you considered dinoflagellates? They seem to be an increasingly common infestation, especially in clean tanks with a high photoperiod.

I'm starting to come around to that idea. Any suggestions on treatment would be awesome. Not sure how to really get it under control if it is the issue.

 

[Skep18]

I am looking at a microscope. Sounds like Amscope is a reputable brand. Not too interested in spending too much on here as it will only be used to ID these dinos. One thing I'm not sure on, can a cell phone take adequate photos through a typical microscope eyepiece? Should I be looking at certain features to expect good photo results to be able to share them here?

I'd like to get either of these if they're OK. If the cheaper one will work just as well and do what I need, obviously I'd prefer that but don't want to buy twice if it doesn't.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

your photos arent working, i also noticed you dont have coralline on your rocks for your tank being two years! how come?

 

[Surfzone]

I am looking at a microscope. Sounds like Amscope is a reputable brand. Not too interested in spending too much on here as it will only be used to ID these dinos. One thing I'm not sure on, can a cell phone take adequate photos through a typical microscope eyepiece? Should I be looking at certain features to expect good photo results to be able to share them here?

I'd like to get either of these if they're OK. If the cheaper one will work just as well and do what I need, obviously I'd prefer that but don't want to buy twice if it doesn't.

I have the same microscope and it does rather good with cell phone pics. I used it to make a positive ID on dinos in my tank months ago. I also use it to check on phyto that I grow and count rotifers and copepods. it's rather cheap but it gets the job done.

 

[Skep18]

As far as flow goes, I think it’s less of a question of how much and more of a question of the quality of flow. I’ve ran 87x tank turnover that was mostly uni-directional aside from two ac pumps on a hydor wave controller alternating to break up the flow. I now run 50x turnover but its a very broad and turbulent flow throughout the tank. My corals are growing better in the lower flow. I feel the difference is in how the flow was reaching my corals. Before, I could only get certain corals to wiggle their polyps. Now, it’s every coral. IMO, getting rid of that boundary layer around our corals is what we should be chasing and not a number or setting.

As for nutrients, we used to think natural sea water levels were the best and I think a lot of people that managed to be successful had pastel reefs as result and at great difficulty. There was also this idea that phosphates above zero would inhibit calcification. Even in 2015 (like it was forever ago, lol) our equipment was perfectly capable of ridding our tanks of nitrates and phosphates and that was what people went for. A LOT of tanks crashed back then. Times have changed though and it’s simply far safer to not ride that edge of coral starvation so closely.

I agree on turnover numbers. Seems crude to think it could be simplified like that. When I setup the tank, I thought the return lines would contribute more to flow than they do. I've got so many, their flow velocity is pretty minimal. I am getting more powerheads mainly to have flow coming from more points of origin so I can direct water throughout the rocksccape as needed to keep everything covered. I have them turned up now as I see many videos with SPS polyps getting churned like crazy. I figured they like they turbulent, alternating high flow. Nonetheless, should I get to the point where some live, I guess then I can tweak flow based on which ones are happy, etc.

As far as nutrients, I think I was just following BRS guidelines to try and get my algae under control. My last dino outbreak, I thought it was algae for a while. Eventually it got bad enough there was no mistaking it. It sounds like maybe I am dealing with different dinos this time? This brown slime looks different than the brown slimy fluff I had last time. But I am working on feeding more and getting those nutrients up. I have enough tangs, should algae grow (not dinos) I guess maybe they'll eat it? Idk. But I am seeing enough suggesting dinos, it sounds like more nutrients is what I should be going for. 100ppm Nitrates, here I come. lol.

 

[Skep18]

If I had to pick a top 3 guesses on the issue/solution.... (#3 is my pick though ... well... maybe #1...)

1) Although your no3/po4 doesn’t seem to be in “danger zone”, I’m sure you’ve read a lot on low no3/po4 issues already on r2r and people have mentioned it here. But this one in particular seems a bit similar (his po4 was much lower though at .002) with signs of success from raising no3/po4:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fading-tissue.643267/
So maybe blitzing the po4 up at least... dosing or reef roids

2) If you don’t want to raise nitrates/phosphates, maybe drop alk closer to 7 (although... In your email you said it was 7 and raised to 8 just from salinity correction? So is it usually at 7 dkh? And issues were still present? If so, obviously this is moot. And even 8 is not too bad but eh... long shot)

3) Swinging back to flow... still on my mind that the rack getting hit with whatever makes it to them along the glass from 90% power of a 6000gph rated gyre push being too much... i know it doesn’t apply exactly but if you imagine that zone as a 50g tank (since it’s in that 1/4 area).. do people think their sps will be happy with a 6000 gph rated gyre blasting at 90% from the back corner in their 50g every 3 min for 3 min in one direction? On top of whatever the other 3 pumps contribute (Not rhetorical, really asking the people haha).

If not the strength of flow, maybe just getting hit from one direction mostly...but that’s also just referring to that frag batch since I don’t know where past unsuccessful frags have been placed.

First off, thank you for being so active in this thread. I do appreciate the added eyes.

1) I am down for anything at this point. I am testing NO3 and PO4 daily now days. I will continue to feed heavy and dose Sodium Triphosphate and Sodium Nitrate if needed.

2) My alk admittedly went untest for a while. When I did finally test, it was down to 7dKH. That was also when my N and P were zero'ed out. I have heard that lower nutrients needs lower alk as well, thats why I didn't freak totally. Nonetheless, I will be working towards the more "typical" numbers in the 8's as my nutrients rise.

3) The gyres push in the direction of the tank along the back wall. By the time they reach the opposite corner where they hit the side glass and move forward, the flow is actually pretty slow. That's why I was kinda disappointed initially when I wanted these to contribute to my "coral flow" if that's a thing. I'd say they more act like a pump that people use to stir their salt water. It basically keeps all the water in the tank from being stagnant. The gyre itself will not cause the frag rack polpys to "whip around".

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

My no3 is 25ppm.

 

[Skep18]

The brown slime in your pictures is the issue. That’s what is consuming the nutrients.....and your corals! You can see it in several of the photos and considering everything else is “OK”, it seems to be the only smoking gun.
Highlighted the brown slime in this pic and it is noticeable on the corals in many of the other pics you posted.

View attachment 1551763

That's what I am hearing. I thought it was just an algae. Turns out many are calling dinos.

That said, I am taking all ideas into consideration to manage this stuff. Shout out if you have any thoughts.

 

[40yreefer]

I am looking at a microscope. Sounds like Amscope is a reputable brand. Not too interested in spending too much on here as it will only be used to ID these dinos. One thing I'm not sure on, can a cell phone take adequate photos through a typical microscope eyepiece? Should I be looking at certain features to expect good photo results to be able to share them here?

I'd like to get either of these if they're OK. If the cheaper one will work just as well and do what I need, obviously I'd prefer that but don't want to buy twice if it doesn't.

You might check Amazon for cell phone microscopes. They plug right into your phone, which makes it easy to take pictures. We bought one for $20. that does 40X and 1000X magnifications. We use an app called CamersFi for the software.

 

[Tamberav]

Seems like many are calling dinos. I will order a microscope today and upload photos here.

Any advice on treatment?

Depends on ID but UV eliminated mine quickly.

 

[Skep18]

Secondly, if the supply water (RODI) was the issue you would have problems in QT also.

Well, just as of this AM, I am noticing one acro in the QT that isn't extending polyps as much as it was before. I'd say the QT definitely keeps coral differently/better than the DT though.

I'm not sure how to adequately evaluate my RODI water. An ICP will only report elements as I understand it. Some I think are saying certain pollutants won't show up on that test (but maybe I am mis-quoting). I tested my RODI drum this AM for chlorine/chloramine with the crude strip test. Per below, both show zero.

 

[Skep18]

Sorry if you’ve arrived here already, I read to page 3. Your first few pictures planted the seed in my mind after your reading what you had written, the video clinched it.

To my mind, other than the apparent lack of stability which clearly needs remedy. The tank is insufficiently biologically mature. You appear to be showing Dinoflagellates and Bacterial films that should be long gone. These are the building blocks of life and the tank isn’t moving past them, in all likelihood this is to do with a lack of available nutrients and the balance of them there in.

Think of a garden, a rock grows lichens and the lichens die creating soil that weeds grow in, eventually over many years the weeds become soil and ultimately a forest grows. I hope that makes sense, it’s what we call the process of succession. Take that to your aquarium and your in the lichen stage.

Get it stable, water chemistry wise and push that biological processes by keeping nutrients detectable. Once you see the weeds grow, it will be near time to plant the trees.

I like the analogy. lol.

I will say, for maybe 6 months or more, I tried doing that. I just forgot about coral and focused on keeping healthy fish and ignoring all else. I figured that would let the tank stabilize according to my routine of "energy in". Unfortunately, all it seems to have done is drive my energy out to the point of zeroing everything. It sounds like I need to artificially feed in excess to "target a number", at least from what I am seeing. I thought I was following the, "don't chase numbers" adage. But apparently that has a caveat, "unless they're zero". lol.

But thanks for the response. Any specifics on how I can work towards "maturity" in a 2 year old setup would be welcomed. I guess I am going to work towards consistency with tons of food at this point. Instead of consistency with "only enough food for the fish" as I have been doing.

 

[Skep18]

I’m not sure those tanks showing sps added during yr 1 are absolutely the status quo and perhaps create a unrealistic expectation... I’d lump it all under maturity/stability just like previous posters are alluding to... dripping kalk does work and has anecdotal bennies. ... log your alk, pH and params ...look for trends ...good luck

I know, and fair point. I just know some people do it and thus it certainly seems reasonably possible. I also was hoping this time around, a 2 year old tank would be over the "new tank syndrom". But it seems it is not I guess.

Either that or dinos that people are pointing out are deadlier than I realize.

 

[Skep18]

I'm with the last two post concerning maturity/biodiversity. I look at your video and that looks like a sterile environment. I am not sure about others but there is no way I could keep my successful mixed reef looking that clean.

Any suggestions on what I can do about it? I figured I was keeping a tank the same way BRS says on their video series. WC's. Test stuff. "Husbandry". I guess I am not clearly understanding what to do to attain this "biodiversity" and "maturity".

Heck, some on here don't even advise adding bacteria, stating a tank will cycle on its own. I assume with my bacteria additions along with adding life from fish and frags, it would seed itself. It sounds like I am wrong though, lol.

 

[Skep18]

I have the same microscope and it does rather good with cell phone pics. I used it to make a positive ID on dinos in my tank months ago. I also use it to check on phyto that I grow and count rotifers and copepods. it's rather cheap but it gets the job done.

The first one or the second one?

 

[Skep18]

I am sorry, I have not read the complete thread, only the opening.
For me this are clear signs for phosphate deficiency. Also trace element deficiency could be a factor that will not show up clearly in any analysis.

Thanks for the feedback. I am starting to think my nutrients are an issue as well. I will continue to feed more and dose as needed. If you have any ideas or experiences that might help on how I can further improve, please feel free to share.