Velvet Treatment Plan

[AnotherReefHobbyist]

Hello everyone, I believe my fish in my 30 gallon reef have velvet. For context, I added a flame angel from my lfs 3 weeks ago. I did not quarantine this fish because the lfs has had the fish for over a month without any sign of disease. One week ago, I noticed a rather severe case of lymphocytic on my 5 year old citron goby. I began treating with Fritz parashield, and completed a one week treatment with no results. A few days ago the goby passed. I was not worried about the new flame angel or my clownfish as both appeared healthy and acted normal. This afternoon, I noticed velvet on the body of both fish. I began treatment with a 5 minute freshwater bath, after which I returned the fish to the display. I ordered copper and seachem kanaplex which will arrive Tommorow so that I can transfer the fish to a medicated quarrentine. I also ordered ruby reef rally pro that will arrive on Wednesday so that I can complete a chemical bath. I will repeat daily freshwater dips until I have the product I need for a chemical bath. This is all in accordance to humblefishes guide to velvet.

Here are my questions:
-Do I need to make any modifications to my treatment plan?
-How do I ensure the display is no longer infected after I return the fish to the display from their one month copper treatment?
-Realistically, what are the chances my treatment will be successful and the fish will make a recovery


I have not included pictures as the infection is not serious enough to appear in pictures. I can only see the film and white spots when I am 6” or less from the fish.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello everyone, I believe my fish in my 30 gallon reef have velvet. For context, I added a flame angel from my lfs 3 weeks ago. I did not quarantine this fish because the lfs has had the fish for over a month without any sign of disease. One week ago, I noticed a rather severe case of lymphocytic on my 5 year old citron goby. I began treating with Fritz parashield, and completed a one week treatment with no results. A few days ago the goby passed. I was not worried about the new flame angel or my clownfish as both appeared healthy and acted normal. This afternoon, I noticed velvet on the body of both fish. I began treatment with a 5 minute freshwater bath, after which I returned the fish to the display. I ordered copper and seachem kanaplex which will arrive Tommorow so that I can transfer the fish to a medicated quarrentine. I also ordered ruby reef rally pro that will arrive on Wednesday so that I can complete a chemical bath. I will repeat daily freshwater dips until I have the product I need for a chemical bath. This is all in accordance to humblefishes guide to velvet.

Here are my questions:
-Do I need to make any modifications to my treatment plan?
-How do I ensure the display is no longer infected after I return the fish to the display from their one month copper treatment?
-Realistically, what are the chances my treatment will be successful and the fish will make a recovery


I have not included pictures as the infection is not serious enough to appear in pictures. I can only see the film and white spots when I am 6” or less from the fish.

get rid of the paracleanse which is useless as you discovered.
Even with quarantine, always assume fish has something and do a quarantine of your own even for 14-21 days as many stores say quarantine and run copper at lowest therapeutic dose possible. Pics under white light intensity will be helpful but If velvet, Ruby rally bath with aeration for 45-60 minutes may help. Hold kanaplex but do administer copper (is it Cupramine or coppersafe?) for a full 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone... Since this occurred in the display tank, you will have to and suggested to add other occupants who too have been exposed.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off and with occupants exposed, they too should go into quarantine
Pics and video may help with assessment although you dont think serious enough. Thet either have disease or they dont

 

[AnotherReefHobbyist]

get rid of the paracleanse which is useless as you discovered.
Even with quarantine, always assume fish has something and do a quarantine of your own even for 14-21 days as many stores say quarantine and run copper at lowest therapeutic dose possible. Pics under white light intensity will be helpful but If velvet, Ruby rally bath with aeration for 45-60 minutes may help. Hold kanaplex but do administer copper (is it Cupramine or coppersafe?) for a full 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone... Since this occurred in the display tank, you will have to and suggested to add other occupants who too have been exposed.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off and with occupants exposed, they too should go into quarantine
Pics and video may help with assessment although you dont think serious enough. Thet either have disease or they dont

Thank you for the advice! The copper I ordered is seachem cupramine, I am open to copper safe if that is more effective but I assume they are the same. My quarantine will have an air stone, along with HOB filter equipped with established sea chem matrix from the display. I also have benifical batería to rapidly cycle the quarantine and an ammonia alert badge to check on ammonia. I will order a Hanna digital copper checker immediately. I only have two fish, both of which will go into quarantine. To allow the display to be fallow for 6 weeks, I will run the fish in copper for 4 weeks and then observe them in an unmedicated quarentine for an additional 2 weeks.

Here are photos under white light, coral is closed because the lights have been off for the evening for around 2 hours.

Thank you very much for the help.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you for the advice! The copper I ordered is seachem cupramine, I am open to copper safe if that is more effective but I assume they are the same. My quarantine will have an air stone, along with HOB filter equipped with established sea chem matrix from the display. I also have benifical batería to rapidly cycle the quarantine and an ammonia alert badge to check on ammonia. I will order a Hanna digital copper checker immediately. I only have two fish, both of which will go into quarantine. To allow the display to be fallow for 6 weeks, I will run the fish in copper for 4 weeks and then observe them in an unmedicated quarentine for an additional 2 weeks.

Thank you very much for the help.

I dont trust alert badge especially within copper based treatment and not worth false readinds. I recommend good quality test kit. Cupramine is harsher being an ionic product and coppersafe is safer.
Cupramine max treatment level is .5 and copper safe is safe at 2.25. A seeded sponge is more effective than bottled bacteria and sjkip the matrix unless you have a phosphate issue.
For power filter, be sure to remove carbon from the filter cartridge. 40 days coppersafe yet and you can optionally add PraziPro for the 15 days to follow to assure fish are fully clear

 

[AnotherReefHobbyist]

I dont trust alert badge especially within copper based treatment and not worth false readinds. I recommend good quality test kit. Cupramine is harsher being an ionic product and coppersafe is safer.
Cupramine max treatment level is .5 and copper safe is safe at 2.25. A seeded sponge is more effective than bottled bacteria and sjkip the matrix unless you have a phosphate issue.
For power filter, be sure to remove carbon from the filter cartridge. 40 days coppersafe yet and you can optionally add PraziPro for the 15 days to follow to assure fish are fully clear

Sounds like a plan, I will stick with cupramine and keep copper levels under .5. I will research a better ammonia kit and order it. I don’t have any sponge in my display tank, so I will add some of my other biological filtration media and skip matrix. Thank you!

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Are you sure this is velvet? What symptoms do they have.

Typically rapid breathing, hiding from the light, not eating, swimming towards the flow are signs of velvet and it typically kills rather quickly.

Also, freshwater dips and then placing the fish back into the infected aquarium will just cause more stress, it would be better to move to sterile bucket with airstone and heater vs placing back.

 

[AnotherReefHobbyist]

Are you sure this is velvet? What symptoms do they have.

Typically rapid breathing, hiding from the light, not eating, swimming towards the flow are signs of velvet and it typically kills rather quickly.

Also, freshwater dips and then placing the fish back into the infected aquarium will just cause more stress, it would be better to move to sterile bucket with airstone and heater vs placing back.

While the fish are not displaying any symptoms other than the small white spots and hazy coat, I’m not sure what else it could be. I will be transferring them to the medicated quarantine after the next freshwater dip Tommorow evening rather then back into the display, thank you for the tip!

 

[LAReefer4Life]

I am not convinced it's velvet. How long have they been showing these symptoms?

Can you catch the breath rate? Count the gill movements for 10 second and multiple by 6. A normal fish rate shouldn't exceed 60-100 bpm. If it's over 120 + then I would suspect velvet. Otherwise it could be something else.

 

[vetteguy53081]

While the fish are not displaying any symptoms other than the small white spots and hazy coat, I’m not sure what else it could be. I will be transferring them to the medicated quarantine after the next freshwater dip Tommorow evening rather then back into the display, thank you for the tip!

This is why mu\y request for videos and pics. If ich, same treatment. If something else, unnecessary treatment

 

[AnotherReefHobbyist]

I am not convinced it's velvet. How long have they been showing these symptoms?

Can you catch the breath rate? Count the gill movements for 10 second and multiple by 6. A normal fish rate shouldn't exceed 60-100 bpm. If it's over 120 + then I would suspect velvet. Otherwise it could be something else.

I have only noticed the symptoms since this afternoon. Breath rate seems normal on my clownfish, but flame angel is just over 100 bpm.

 

[AnotherReefHobbyist]

This is why mu\y request for videos and pics. If ich, same treatment. If something else, unnecessary treatment

I have provided pictures in my second earlier post, the spots are only slightly visible. hopefully they are helpful! I will likely continue treatment, because if it is velvet I am aware that the fish could quickly perish if not treated properly.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

I have only noticed the symptoms since this afternoon. Breath rate seems normal on my clownfish, but flame angel is just over 100 bpm.

A 30 second video under white light would be helpful better diagnoses

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have provided pictures in my second earlier post, the spots are only slightly visible. hopefully they are helpful! I will likely continue treatment, because if it is velvet I am aware that the fish could quickly perish if not treated properly.

According to those pics and based on size of location, your fish have ich. Proceed with treatment as discussed earlier

 

[AnotherReefHobbyist]

According to those pics and based on size of location, your fish have ich. Proceed with treatment as discussed earlier

That may be good news! Ice seems much easier to treat, but I will stay with the original plan and be diligent.

 

[AnotherReefHobbyist]

A 30 second video under white light would be helpful better diagnoses

I will take a video Tommorow morning, thank you for the help!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I will take a video Tommorow morning, thank you for the help!

True velvet (Amyloodinium) is pretty rare in marine fish and doesn't cause skin spots in most cases, and then, if seen, the spots are near the end of the infection. You'll read and see pictures online of fish with spots that have "velvet", but a lot of these are misidentified. Freshwater velvet is a different species and DOES create dust-like spots. Marine velvet is first and foremost a gill disease. The symptoms you are most likely to see is not eating, rapid breathing and hanging in the water current. The respiration rate of your angelfish is borderline high, but a fish with velvet often breathes at 125 bpm or higher.

Luckily, copper works on ich or velvet.

In your first post, I read this: "lymphocytic on my 5 year old citron goby. " It is virtually unheard of for a five year old captive fish to show signs of Lymphocystis, I've never seen that happen. Also, Lymphocystis isn't fatal, so something else was wrong with your goby - that might be related to this issue.

 

[AnotherReefHobbyist]

True velvet (Amyloodinium) is pretty rare in marine fish and doesn't cause skin spots in most cases, and then, if seen, the spots are near the end of the infection. You'll read and see pictures online of fish with spots that have "velvet", but a lot of these are misidentified. Freshwater velvet is a different species and DOES create dust-like spots. Marine velvet is first and foremost a gill disease. The symptoms you are most likely to see is not eating, rapid breathing and hanging in the water current. The respiration rate of your angelfish is borderline high, but a fish with velvet often breathes at 125 bpm or higher.

Luckily, copper works on ich or velvet.

In your first post, I read this: "lymphocytic on my 5 year old citron goby. " It is virtually unheard of for a five year old captive fish to show signs of Lymphocystis, I've never seen that happen. Also, Lymphocystis isn't fatal, so something else was wrong with your goby - that might be related to this issue.

Yes, I do believe the goby’s illness had something to do with this as well. I was surprised the goby passed due to the illness, but it was at the end of its lifespan so I didn’t really look into it. Here are photos of the illness the goby had:

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes, I do believe the goby’s illness had something to do with this as well. I was surprised the goby passed due to the illness, but it was at the end of its lifespan so I didn’t really look into it. Here are photos of the illness the goby had:

Tough to say what the goby had, but it wasn't Lymphocystis for certain.

Gobies show ich differently than many other fish - larger spots mostly.

 

[AnotherReefHobbyist]

Tough to say what the goby had, but it wasn't Lymphocystis for certain.

Gobies show ich differently than many other fish - larger spots mostly.

That would make sense, thank you for the help! The fish are going into medicated quarantine tonight.