Velvet or Ich?

[Mattyreefs]

I noticed some marks on my female clownfish this morning when I was feeding. I initially thought it was just changing in her coloration because she had a lot of spots when I got her that have gone away over time. Upon closer inspection, it looks more like lesions or scrapes. Then when I really started looking, I could see what I thought might be ich on her fins but now I'm wondering if this might be velvet?

Her behavior is completely normal and she's eating like her usual pig self. I don't see any other signs on other fish (another clown, cardinal, blenny and goby).

Can velvet live dormant in a tank without showing for an extended period of time? I've had no changes to fish livestock recently and all of these fish have been in this tank at least 12 months. I did lose a melanarus wrasse recently to uronema but that was a completely separate tank in another room.

I spent an hour this morning trying to net her but it's impossible. I ordered a fish trap but it probably won't be here until Friday, which if it's velvet, it sounds like that's probably too late.

I tried to get the best pictures and video I could but she never stops swimming.

 

[threebuoys]

Difficult to determine if the small white spots are on the fish or on the glass.

When was the last fish added to the tank?

I see the abrasion on the side of the fish. The white spots on the body may be ich, although less likely if you haven't seen it in the past and if you have not added any possible carriers in several months.

The spots/ white on the edges of the fins could be lymphocystis.

More history about the recently added fish and any previous illness in the tank might help narrow the diagnosis.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Could be ich - though as said more pics would help confirm.
Based on the normal breathing rate, I think velvet can be ruled out.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Sorry for your troubles. There seems to be a couple issues going on. Stringy feces, possible bacterial or Uronema since you mentioned it as an issue, did you cross utilize any equipment between tanks?

I see light dusting on the body in the video but usually once you start to see visible symptoms of velvet on the body and fins, labored breathing is the primary symptom.

Did you add any new corals or inverts recently?

 

[Mattyreefs]

There are 100% spots on the fish, mostly grouped around tail and pectorals. I'll try to get better picture or video. You can see if in the video when she changes directions. Here's a grab from the video where you can see the spots.

Fish wise, nothing has been added in ~12 months. I never treated any fish before adding to the DT but I have always watched them in a separate QT for 30 or more days before adding them to the tank. I know that's not a true quarantine but it's what I've been comfortable with.

I did add a skunk cleaner shrimp about a week ago.

I did add a RBTA and Torch about 10 days ago and a zoa frag a couple weeks ago.

I've only ever lost two fish in this tank. One was a firefish probably 6 months ago. I don't think there was any disease or illness there. My yellow watchman goby was aggressive toward it and I think it wore it down over time. I also lost a male clown which was actually the original pair to this female. That was almost two years ago. He never looked great from the start but it never had any signs of ich or velvet.

 

[Mattyreefs]

Sorry for your troubles. There seems to be a couple issues going on. Stringy feces, possible bacterial or Uronema since you mentioned it as an issue, did you cross utilize any equipment between tanks?

I see light dusting on the body in the video but usually once you start to see visible symptoms of velvet on the body and fins, labored breathing is the primary symptom.

Did you add any new corals or inverts recently?

I did notice the white stringy poop as I was taking the video. I haven't noticed this before now.

Uronema was isolated to a separate tank. I do use some of the same equipment but I wash everything that gets wet between tanks.

If it wasn't for the marks and spots, I wouldn't think anything was out of the ordinary. Behavior and appetite are normal. She's like any other clown, swims around acting neurotic, it's hard to tell but I don't think breathing is any faster than usual.

 

[Sharkbait19]

It does look like ich - it can lay dormant for some time until some stressor comes in and gives the ich a chance to take hold.
Best way to eradicate it would be copper treatment and fallow.
Do you feed mysis? If so, that can cause white, stringy poop.

 

[Mattyreefs]

It does look like ich - it can lay dormant for some time until some stressor comes in and gives the ich a chance to take hold.
Best way to eradicate it would be copper treatment and fallow.
Do you feed mysis? If so, that can cause white, stringy poop.

I feed a bunch of things including frozen pe mysis so maybe.

I guess I'll wait and see until the fish trap comes. I tried again with the net and I'm just stressing everything out, self included.

 

[KWolfe81]

It does look like ich - it can lay dormant for some time until some stressor comes in

It can also be transferred on stony surfaces while in the egg-encrusted phase. I'd wager it hitched a ride on his new zoa.

 

[Mattyreefs]

It can also be transferred on stony surfaces while in the egg-encrusted phase. I'd wager it hitched a ride on his new zoa.

Would ich survive h2o2?

 

[MnFish1]

Would ich survive h2o2?

I agree with several of the other comments - to me - it looks like Ich - especially if you have had untreated Ich in your tank previously - which is what I believe you were implying (but they went away). Velvet SHOULD have more symptoms - and yes - can also be dormant in the tank. I would say the same thing as the others - all of your fish should be treated for CI - and your tank left fallow for the 76 day time period.

SINCE the fish seems to be acting normally - You may also want to check out Reef Rally Pro - which is supposed to be 'reef safe'. it is not as much as a 'sure thing' as copper but - since you can't catch the fish - and it needs treatment - it is a possible second option.

 

[threebuoys]

Are the spots coming and going or are they remaining in the same locations for days? The life cycle of ich generally results in spots dropping off after a couple of days and then reappearing as the next generation attaches to the fish. Lympho on the other hand remains in place a grows over time if conditions are favorable.

 

[Mattyreefs]

I agree with several of the other comments - to me - it looks like Ich - especially if you have had untreated Ich in your tank previously - which is what I believe you were implying (but they went away). Velvet SHOULD have more symptoms - and yes - can also be dormant in the tank. I would say the same thing as the others - all of your fish should be treated for CI - and your tank left fallow for the 76 day time period.

SINCE the fish seems to be acting normally - You may also want to check out Reef Rally Pro - which is supposed to be 'reef safe'. it is not as much as a 'sure thing' as copper but - since you can't catch the fish - and it needs treatment - it is a possible second option.

I actually don't think I've had ich in the tank before. Or I should say I've never seen signs on fish or lost any fish that I'd attribute to ich (or velvet). That's why I was wondering how long either could be in the tank without displaying.

This clown actually did have gill flukes when I first added to the tank. I treated with prazipro right in the DT and haven't had any issues since. That was around 2 years ago, maybe a little less.

I'll see how quickly I can get reef rally. Open to trying it if it is DT safe.

 

[Mattyreefs]

Are the spots coming and going or are they remaining in the same locations for days? The life cycle of ich generally results in spots dropping off after a couple of days and then reappearing as the next generation attaches to the fish. Lympho on the other hand remains in place a grows over time if conditions are favorable.

Not sure yet as I only just noticed it this morning. Seems like I'll have a better sense regardless of what it is after watching for a day or two.

I looked at a lot of lympho pictures and I'm not really seeing a resemblance at this point.

 

[threebuoys]

FYI, Ruby Reef recommends that Kick-ich Pro be used in conjunction with Ruby Rally Pro to treat ich.

The product is suppose to treat both fresh and saltwater ich. I have not been able to determine what the composition of Kick-ich pro is, but Ruby Reef says it does not contain copper and that it is reef safe. I have no experience using Kick-ich and I have not read any reviews indicating it successfully treats saltwater ich. Ruby Rally Pro contains acriflavine.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

There are 100% spots on the fish, mostly grouped around tail and pectorals. I'll try to get better picture or video. You can see if in the video when she changes directions. Here's a grab from the video where you can see the spots.

Fish wise, nothing has been added in ~12 months. I never treated any fish before adding to the DT but I have always watched them in a separate QT for 30 or more days before adding them to the tank. I know that's not a true quarantine but it's what I've been comfortable with.

I did add a skunk cleaner shrimp about a week ago.

I did add a RBTA and Torch about 10 days ago and a zoa frag a couple weeks ago.

I've only ever lost two fish in this tank. One was a firefish probably 6 months ago. I don't think there was any disease or illness there. My yellow watchman goby was aggressive toward it and I think it wore it down over time. I also lost a male clown which was actually the original pair to this female. That was almost two years ago. He never looked great from the start but it never had any signs of ich or velvet.

That does look like ich to me. I’ve never isolated Uronema from clownfish, but I did see one purported case that a veterinarian worked on that involved a maroon clownfish….
Jay

 

[4FordFamily]

For some reason I keep going back to brooklynella which can present oddly. What other fish are in the tank? If there are tangs/angels and they're "spotless" (pun intended) it would lend me to think it is brooklynella since it imapcts clownfish more.

As for it suddenly appearing - this can happen with various stressors (in the case of brook, velvet, and ich, and other ailments) such as power outages, poor water quality, sudden changes, sudden additions, etc. If a fish wasn't added recently, it can definitely arrive in coral/rock/some inverts.

 

[Mattyreefs]

That does look like ich to me. I’ve never isolated Uronema from clownfish, but I did see one purported case that a veterinarian worked on that involved a maroon clownfish….
Jay

Assuming it doesn't progress rapidly, or turn out to be velvet, I have a fish trap coming Friday. Even with a trap, I'm doubting that I'll be able to catch the goby or blenny. Is it worth QTing the clowns if I can't get all of the fish out or might I be better off managing it in the DT?

 

[Mattyreefs]

For some reason I keep going back to brooklynella which can present oddly. What other fish are in the tank? If there are tangs/angels and they're "spotless" (pun intended) it would lend me to think it is brooklynella since it imapcts clownfish more.

As for it suddenly appearing - this can happen with various stressors (in the case of brook, velvet, and ich, and other ailments) such as power outages, poor water quality, sudden changes, sudden additions, etc. If a fish wasn't added recently, it can definitely arrive in coral/rock/some inverts.

For fish, there's a pair of clowns, 1 bangaii cardinal, 1 yellow watchman, 1 bi-color blenny. I don't see any spots on any other fish at this point, including the male clown. The last fish added to the tank was the cardinal about a year ago.

I won't try to say that the tank is perfect otherwise but I've had nothing that I'd attribute new stress to. Salinity and other parameters are all very stable. 1.026 salinity, 78 degrees, nitrate 7.3ppm, phosphate is a little high today at 0.16 but it's usually around 0.08 ppm, alk is 8.5 dkh. I haven't had any power outages or any other factors I could think of.

I did add a skunk cleaner shrimp about a week ago. I also added a RBTA and Torch about 10 days ago and a zoa frag a couple weeks ago but other than that, no changes.

 

[Mattyreefs]

So I'm an idiot with regards to the "lesions" on her belly. Those are literally just her markings. I dug through some old tank pictures and they were always there, it just looks like they have more orange than they used to. This picture is from 8+ months ago. So at least that's not any concern...

The white spots don't look any different from this morning. It's a longshot and I've never noticed it before, but could the white spotting also be part of her patterning? It's really hard to tell because the dots are small but it doesn't look like any of the spots are raised at all. Is Ich usually a bump or flat dot on the skin?