Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

[sixty_reefer]

I do not see a concern here. There’s no plausible explanation for the results except that Vibrant is not what it claims and is, in fact, an algaecide polymer.

The reverse conclusion is absurd in the extreme. That Algaefix is not actually the commercial algaecide that it claims and that analytical tests support, but is instead a secret formula of heterotrophic bacteria just like Vibrant claims. The remarkable thing is they not only developed the same bacteria, lied about it to the epa and to customers, but we’re even able to get the NMR to look nothing like bacteria and to look exactly like the polymer they lie about it containing. They are some smart dudes!!!!

Allegedly the experience in post #165 mentioned that was possible to culture the contents of both products (if I am interpreting the data right), demonstrating that the content could be dormant looking at the time it took to the sample to get cloudy in comparison to the tank water sample that may contain wile bacteria, possible demonstrating that both may not be sterile and pure.
imagining that we were in a law and ordered episode that would create reasonable doubt at the very least. (I like the show also)
I’m not insinuating that the results are wrong I’m just mentioning that a busan 77 ftir would have left less room for speculation . And maybe repeat the experience in post #165 more carefully to confirm the results.

That’s it from me thank you for your patience again.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Allegedly the experience in post #165 mentioned that was possible to culture the contents of both products (if I am interpreting the data right), demonstrating that the content could be dormant looking at the time it took to the sample to get cloudy in comparison to the tank water sample that may contain wile bacteria, possible demonstrating that both may not be sterile and pure.
imagining that we were in a law and ordered episode that would create reasonable doubt at the very least. (I like the show also)
I’m not insinuating that the results are wrong I’m just mentioning that a busan 77 ftir would have left less room for speculation . And maybe repeat the experience in post #165 more carefully to confirm the results.

That’s it from me thank you for your patience again.

Since there is no reason to assume one way or they other whether there should be culturable bacteria in a solution of this algaecide, I personally would treat any result as a simple observation.

For example, would culturable bacteria in a magnesium dosing solution have any bearing on whether it contains magnesium?

 

[xiaoxiy]

I’m not insinuating that the results are wrong I’m just mentioning that a busan 77 ftir would have left less room for speculation .

The IR for Algaefix, is IR for busan 77. Unless taricha falsified the IR, we have the IR for busan 77. The only thing I can think of for improved integrity is for someone to run another independent IR on an Algaefix to verify.

Since there is no reason to assume one way or they other whether there should be culturable bacteria in a solution of this algaecide, I personally would treat any result as a simple observation.

For example, would culturable bacteria in a magnesium dosing solution have any bearing on whether it contains magnesium?

This ^. The bacteria in the solutions are likely contaminants.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I might suggest on a number of levels this is probably not following TPS.

I cannot see how these jokes to lighten the mood violate the TOS, but if you think otherwise, report it. I'm not the appropriate one to make decision on TOS violations I may make.

Here's how I see it:

ZZ: Is there going to be a test on this later? I feel like I may be a little behind.

Randy; yes...

ZZ: Do I qualify for extra time if the last few pages of this thread gave me an aneurism? Ha

Randy: Special needs individuals will get extra time. lol


Obviously the only person I'm suggesting is special needs is ZZ for having an an aneurism. It is in no way a criticism of anyone or anything else.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Vibrafix 77.

I think I'm going with Vibrusan 77 personally.

 

[revhtree]

Closed unless we get a further update.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I cannot see how these jokes to lighten the mood violate the TOS, but if you think otherwise, report it. I'm not the appropriate one to make decision on TOS violations I may make.

Here's how I see it:

ZZ: Is there going to be a test on this later? I feel like I may be a little behind.

Randy; yes...

ZZ: Do I qualify for extra time if the last few pages of this thread gave me an aneurism? Ha

Randy: Special needs individuals will get extra time. lol


Obviously the only person I'm suggesting is special needs is ZZ for having an an aneurism. It is in no way a criticism of anyone or anything else.

I’m not offended by our banter if that makes a difference. I for sure wasn’t trying to get anyone put in a time out. I will volunteer to face the corner in the back of the classroom whilst wearing a dunce cap for the remainder of the class.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Any new science related discussions are welcome to start new threads for that purpose. If they degenerate, they too will end up being closed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not opening the thread for discussion since there is no news, but just noting for folks that the epa inspection was 139 days ago. No word from UWC.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This thread is open and may have some info:

Vibrant update ?

Hi guys I recently got some vibrant as I’d seen some good things about it and had a cyano outbreak that I couldn’t get rid of, anyway I came across the reef 2 reef thread about it and couldn’t believe it, does anybody know if it’s been sorted or shall I bin it haha ? Many thanks guys, p.s I have...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Passing along the latest I have from UWC, they do plan to post at some time in the future, but say they cannot at the current time. Jeff did not give further info on why they cannot.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The one year anniversary of the EPA inspection of the Vibrant facility passed on March 23, 2023. UWC became a registered pesticide producer on 5/19/2022. I cannot find any other public actions from the EPA, but do not know under what circumstances any would be made public.

The promised update from UWC never materialized.

I'm going to reopen this thread, but it will be closed again if it induces folks to violate the Reef2Reef terms of service.

 

[a.t.t.r]

The one year anniversary of the EPA inspection of the Vibrant facility passed on March 23, 2023. UWC became a registered pesticide producer on 5/19/2022. I cannot find any other public actions from the EPA, but do not know under what circumstances any would be made public.

The promised update from UWC never materialized.

I'm going to reopen this thread, but it will be closed again if it induces folks to violate the Reef2Reef terms of service.

"UWC became a registered pesticide producer on 5/19/2022." All we needed to know.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

"UWC became a registered pesticide producer on 5/19/2022."

FRS Facility Detail Report | Envirofacts | US EPA

frs-public.epa.gov

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

The one year anniversary of the EPA inspection of the Vibrant facility passed on March 23, 2023. UWC became a registered pesticide producer on 5/19/2022. I cannot find any other public actions from the EPA, but do not know under what circumstances any would be made public.

The promised update from UWC never materialized.

I'm going to reopen this thread, but it will be closed again if it induces folks to violate the Reef2Reef terms of service.

I wonder if they are still waiting for the audit to finish before they comment…. Haha That’s one long audit

 

[redfishbluefish]

The one year anniversary of the EPA inspection of the Vibrant facility passed on March 23, 2023. UWC became a registered pesticide producer on 5/19/2022. I cannot find any other public actions from the EPA, but do not know under what circumstances any would be made public.

The promised update from UWC never materialized.

I'm going to reopen this thread, but it will be closed again if it induces folks to violate the Reef2Reef terms of service.

Interestingly, looking at there website today, the ingredient list does NOT include any pesticide:

Vibrant Ingredients -

95% Cultured Bacteria Blend
1% Amino Acids (Aspartic Acid)
0.5% Vinegar
3.5% RO/DI Water

 

[arking_mark]

No changes to listed ingredients

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Interestingly, looking at there website today, the ingredient list does NOT include any pesticide:

Vibrant Ingredients -

95% Cultured Bacteria Blend
1% Amino Acids (Aspartic Acid)
0.5% Vinegar
3.5% RO/DI Water

That's true, the web site is unchanged as best I can tell.

Also, as far as I know, the web site has shown out of stock for all types of vibrant since the inspection.

 

[Joe31415]

Also, as far as I know, the web site has shown out of stock for all types of vibrant since the inspection.

I do still see it at my LFS. Whether that's old stock or they're still moving it, I don't know. I suspect it still sells. There's plenty of people in the aquarium hobby that don't frequent message boards or they do, but missed these types of threads.
Plus, despite what's happening, there are plenty of people that appear to have good experiences with it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do still see it at my LFS. Whether that's old stock or they're still moving it, I don't know. I suspect it still sells. There's plenty of people in the aquarium hobby that don't frequent message boards or they do, but missed these types of threads.
Plus, despite what's happening, there are plenty of people that appear to have good experiences with it.

True, I expect equally good outcomes for it and Algaefix, the matching product that presumably also sells to some extent.

Does anyone know if vibrant lists a use by date on it? One certainly ought to for live bacteria. Would be interesting to see if product currently being sold has a current date.