Tropic Marin Plus-NP to Combat Dinos?

ingchr1

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I started to experience an outbreak of dinoflagellates a few weeks ago. The dinos started to worsen so I started looking in to what they consume to grow/multiply. In that thread, @taricha lead me to the @Beuchat Dinoflagellates Disruptive Treatment Article. There was a post by @Naturalreef in the discussion thread on how Tropic Marin Plus-NP cleared a dino outbreak in four days. Since I has some Plus-NP on hand I decided to give it a try, and my results have been much the same. My dinos are not completely gone yet, but they were significantly reduced after just a few days of dosing the Plus-NP. My tank has ~31 gallons and I have been dosing one pump (~1ml) per day after lights out (not sure if the lights out makes any difference, that's just what I decided to do). I'm probably going to increase the dose to two pumps a day at some point to see if that completely clears the dinos. I have been dosing it for nine days so far. Since starting the dosing my NO3 has remained at 0.0 ppm (Hanna HR) and PO4 at ~0.10 ppm (Hanna LR).

What is in the Plus-NP that seems to have "balanced out" the tank so quickly, in relative terms to combating dinos?

When I started dosing the Plus-NP I also reduced my light period from 16hrs to 12hrs (more on that below), syphoned off the dinos and installed filter floss (normally I just run coarse mesh). The floss I have been changing every day or so.

The outbreak was triggered by significant change in tank parameters due to a change in lighting. My Reef Brite XHOs started failing and I replaced them with Quanta Meso Blue Pros. My fixture is the two LED bars and two T5's. The Quantas sit about 1" lower than the XHOs did due to the mounting. I'm not sure what the PAR was when I removed the XHOs (didn't think to measure it at the time with my Seneye), but when installed them I had ~ 130 PAR on the sand at peak lighting. When I measured with the Quantas, I now have ~180 PAR or so on the sand. I also ramped the XHOs, the Quantas have no ramp. I left my light period the same (16hrs) and controlled by having only one Quata on at the times I was ramping with the XHOs. The corals did not react negatively to the change, so I did not make any changes to lighting period at the time. (@telegraham)

One day after I installed the Quantas I measured my Alkalinity at 6.2 dKH (Hanna) prior to a water change. Normally it's around 7-8 dKH. Since I was doing a water change with IO at 11dKH, I didn't think too much of it. During this time, I also noticed the water was a bit hazy. At the time I was not sure why, but now I'm assuming it was a bacterial bloom? After a couple of days of being hazy I installed some ROX 0.8. The water is now clear. Not sure if it was the carbon, or it just cleared on its own.

Four days after the water change, I measured:

Alkalinity = 4.4dKH! To confirm I checked with an API test kit and it measured four drops.
Ca = 410 ppm (Salifert), normal ~420 - 430ppm
NO3 = 0.0 ppm (Hanna HR), normal ~5 ppm
PO4 = 0.17 ppm (Hanna LR), normal ~0.3 ppm

The following day I sent out a sample to Fauna Marin, and they measured:

Alkalinity = 5.2 dKH (I measured 4.9 dKH with Hanna)
Ca = 374 ppm
NO3 = 0.18 ppm
Total Phosphate = 0.13 ppm, Ortho Phosphate = 0.11 ppm (I measured PO4 = 0.11 with Hanna)

To summarize, the light change appears to have:

Increased two-part consumption from 13ml/day (0.6 dKH/day) to 35ml/day (1.6 dKH/day)
Consumed 0.2ppm of PO4.

Prior to the dinos I was dealing with cyano. This tank was started five years ago with dry rock, but since that time I have also added packages from IPSF and Tampa Bay Saltwater.
 

Naturalreef

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I’m still Dino free. I started with Plus-np and am now using bactobalance. Coral are still doing great and I like not having to worry that my nutrients will go to zero. I believe the carbon dosing boosted the good bacteria quickly which out competed the Dino’s.

Bacteria bloom will happen if your dose is too high, but should go away pretty quickly once you reduce it.

I‘m glad it’s working for you as well. I was ready to throw in the towel. I put bactobalance on a dosing pump @.5 ml/day per 50 gallons.
 
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ingchr1

ingchr1

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...Bacteria bloom will happen if your dose is too high, but should go away pretty quickly once you reduce it...
Just for clarification, the bloom happend before I started to dose the Plus-NP. It happened when I changed the light bars.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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With dinos and very low nitrate, I'd personally just dose ammonia or nitrate rather than mess with a more complicated product with unknown composition such as Tropic Marin Plus NP.
 
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ingchr1

ingchr1

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With dinos and very low nitrate, I'd personally just dose ammonia or nitrate rather than mess with a more complicated product with unknown composition such as Tropic Marin Plus NP.
Do you think if I had just dosed ammonia or nitrate I would have seen the same positive results over the same time period (a couple of days) as I did with the Plus-NP?
 
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ingchr1

ingchr1

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I’m still Dino free. I started with Plus-np and am now using bactobalance. Coral are still doing great and I like not having to worry that my nutrients will go to zero. I believe the carbon dosing boosted the good bacteria quickly which out competed the Dino’s.

Bacteria bloom will happen if your dose is too high, but should go away pretty quickly once you reduce it.

I‘m glad it’s working for you as well. I was ready to throw in the towel. I put bactobalance on a dosing pump @.5 ml/day per 50 gallons.
I think I'm going to keep dosing the Plus-NP until the dinos are no longer visibly present or if I start to see PO4 climb. It's been stable around 0.10 ppm since I started dosing it. I may not switch to the NP-Bacto-Balance though, since I had cyano when using it in the past. I also had cyano when using Elimi-NP. Not sure if the two are related, but I want to be cautious.
 

Naturalreef

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what was your po4 at when you stopped using plus np and switched to bactobalance? Also , how much were you dosing? Tropic Marin has a calculator for all of these products. I used plus np till I reached .08 po4. Bactobalance is holding it nicely at .5 ml per 50 gallons.

So far I’m impressed with both products. I finally have a light green haze on the glass which I never had before. It was always brown algae every where.
 
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ingchr1

ingchr1

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what was your po4 at when you stopped using plus np and switched to bactobalance? Also , how much were you dosing? Tropic Marin has a calculator for all of these products. I used plus np till I reached .08 po4. Bactobalance is holding it nicely at .5 ml per 50 gallons.

So far I’m impressed with both products. I finally have a light green haze on the glass which I never had before. It was always brown algae every where.
Looking back at my notes (from October 2021) I switched when PO4 reached 0.08ppm as well. That time and others along the way, I always seem to get cyano when using Bacto-Balance. My water volume is 31 gallons and I typically dose 0.3ml a day of it.

When my PO4 was running 0.3 ppm I tried Elimi-NP at 0.1 ml or so, and it did not affect the PO4 level. I had cyano when using it as well, but I was making other changes also. So it may not be directly correlated. But the Bacto-Balance I'm fairly certain of.

Interestingly enough, the Plus-NP also cleared dinos for me back at that time in 2021.
 

Naturalreef

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Interesting….Since using these products, my po4 has been rock steady. Nitrates were pretty close to zero and just recently they are around 7. So the ratio is great which is also helping keep the slimes away. I have a heavy fish load (8) for 54 gallons. I’ll post if anything changes.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Do you think if I had just dosed ammonia or nitrate I would have seen the same positive results over the same time period (a couple of days) as I did with the Plus-NP?

Which result? Reduced dinos? If that's what you mean, I expect yes. I would not claim dosing N always reduces dinos when N is very low, but I cannot see how the Plus NP would be different in that regard.
 
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ingchr1

ingchr1

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Which result? Reduced dinos? If that's what you mean, I expect yes. I would not claim dosing N always reduces dinos when N is very low, but I cannot see how the Plus NP would be different in that regard.
Yes, exactly. Reduced dinos in a matter of a couple of days. There seems to be numerous hobbyists that "struggle" with dinos for long periods of time, using all sorts of methods. With Plus-NP I saw positive results very quickly, on two separate occasions.

I started this thread with a couple of things in mind.
  1. For others having issues with dinos to give it a try and see if they have similar results.
  2. To try to find out what might be different with Plus-NP. Vice for example just dosing ammonia, nitrate and/or phosphate.
  3. Documenting the significant change in parameters in my tank from a changing lighting. Which did not have a negative effect on my corals. The only negative I saw was that my Ricordea were not as large, they started to shrink.
Maybe @Lou Ekus and/or @Hans-Werner can provide their insight into #2.
 
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ingchr1

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I upped the Plus-NP dose to two pumps a day, one in the AM and one in the PM. After two days PO4 went up from a steady 0.10ppm to 0.13ppm. NO3 still measures zero on Hanna HR. With the rise in PO4 I have gone back to one pump a day. The dinos are almost gone, they are mainly on a patch of caulerpa I have. My guess is that the caulerpa is not the healthiest at the moment, hence the dinos on them. Will test again in a couple of days.
 

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With dinos and very low nitrate, I'd personally just dose ammonia or nitrate rather than mess with a more complicated product with unknown composition such as Tropic Marin Plus NP.
Dosing ammonia as in the ammonia you would use to cycle the aquarium? How would I dose that safely? I have a 2 month old 25 lagoon and am currently battling Dino’s with .08 po4 and 12 no3
 

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Dosing ammonia as in the ammonia you would use to cycle the aquarium? How would I dose that safely? I have a 2 month old 25 lagoon and am currently battling Dino’s with .08 po4 and 12 no3

 

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