Tropic Marin All For Reef

[dolpator]

I have decided to take the leap with TM AFR and start using this over Kalkwasser. I have been following a lot of different threads and just feel like for my situation and my tank size (80g) that this would be the best option for me. I had a Kalk mishap and things went a little south, so we are on the mend and have decided to remove Kalk from the system for now. Not saying it will not be beneficial down the road, just not at this time.. So my question. I understand the dosing regiment and how to get started my real question is right now my tank is sitting at 9 dKH and 463 Calcium. I typically keep my tank between 8 and 9 Dkh. However my Calcium, even though is in the correct range would you dose just Soda Ash for a little while until Calcium dropped to say 400 and then start AFR. I would like to keep my tank around 8.5 dkh and 440 calcium. I feel the tank has always looked the best around those numbers. I think by the end of the week my dkh should be hitting 8-8.5 but I do not think that my calcium will be below 450...Thoughts?

 

[GARRIGA]

Could drop alkalinity by adding an acid although you will see a slight temporary drop in pH due to increase in co2. I recall Randy recommending Sodium Bisulphate (sp.) but I've used Seachem Acid Buffer because I already had it and easy enough to follow the directions on it.

 

[Hans-Werner]

I think by the end of the week my dkh should be hitting 8-8.5 but I do not think that my calcium will be below 450...Thoughts?

450 ppm Ca or a bit more are no problem.

I recommend to look where the parameters stabilize and then react by adding some soda ash or baking soda to get Ca bit lower and maybe KH a bit higher.

 

[dolpator]

450 ppm Ca or a bit more are no problem.

I recommend to look where the parameters stabilize and then react by adding some soda ash or baking soda to get Ca bit lower and maybe KH a bit higher.

Due to the Kalk issue. My Calcium was well over 600. Trident issue as well. We have everything fixed and it was advised to raise Alk to over 10 to help with Calcium imbalance. Well this did not fair well with my tank and the numbers never fell. SO I stopped dosing all together and I have been letting the numbers drop on their own over time. Literally been a month. S0 now that my numbers are starting to become in line with where I want to keep the tank. I just wonder if I should just start implementing AFR when my alk reaches 8.5 and not worry so much about Calcium. I have read a few threads that said that Calcium could creep up over an extended period of time and wondered if starting lower would allow me a longer stabilization period while implementing the new product. I may be over thinking it, just wanted to make sure. I know calcium is fine in higher ratios, but I just want to start on the right foot with this, and not make anymore mistakes with the tank. I have done enough of that in the past 2 months.. Want to get on something and stay there.

 

[dolpator]

Could drop alkalinity by adding an acid although you will see a slight temporary drop in pH due to increase in co2. I recall Randy recommending Sodium Bisulphate (sp.) but I've used Seachem Acid Buffer because I already had it and easy enough to follow the directions on it.

I really want my calcium lower, alk will probably be where I want it by the end of the week..

 

[GARRIGA]

I really want my calcium lower, alk will probably be where I want it by the end of the week..

Understood. Was just commenting on your wanting alkalinity lower. Me personally. Wouldn't care until it went north of 11. I'd also not worried about calcium below 500. I'd start AFR already. Carbon dose to return base lost during nitrification and adjust that only if it dropped below 7 although ocean already below 7 but I prefer having that buffer and that applies not just to corals.

 

[crazyfishmom]

Why not do a 20-30% water change with a lower calcium salt to get you where you need to be and then start dosing AFR?

 

[GARRIGA]

Why not do a 20-30% water change with a lower calcium salt to get you where you need to be and then start dosing AFR?

I don't change water yet that's my first thought but it seems he's already out of danger.

 

[dolpator]

Understood. Was just commenting on your wanting alkalinity lower. Me personally. Wouldn't care until it went north of 11. I'd also not worried about calcium below 500. I'd start AFR already. Carbon dose to return base lost during nitrification and adjust that only if it dropped below 7 although ocean already below 7 but I prefer having that buffer and that applies not just to corals.

Thank you for your comment. I will starting dialing in AFR this week then.

 

[Troylee]

I don't change water yet that's my first thought but it seems he's already out of danger.

What’s your definition of danger?

 

[GARRIGA]

What’s your definition of danger?

Alk can be easily dropped with acid. Calcium test aren't pinpoint accurate and as such according to Randy 500 isn't a concern. Life will reduce that. Mag seems low but then how accurate are those test?

Like I stated. For me. Alk above 11 gets me concerned. Not sweating calcium of 500 and we hadn't discussed mag and not an area I'm overly knowledgeable in beyond triple calcium being my standard. I'm going to just add based on Randy's recommendation. Hopefully ICP-MS better at testing that because I doubt I'll be good at it and why I never bother testing it or likely ever will.

Are you seeing something I'm not that would cause concern as to the topic of this thread which was alkalinity and calcium?

Wish I had that pH

 

[Troylee]

Alk can be easily dropped with acid. Calcium test aren't pinpoint accurate and as such according to Randy 500 isn't a concern. Life will reduce that. Mag seems low but then how accurate are those test?

Like I stated. For me. Alk above 11 gets me concerned. Not sweating calcium of 500 and we hadn't discussed mag and not an area I'm overly knowledgeable in beyond triple calcium being my standard. I'm going to just add based on Randy's recommendation. Hopefully ICP-MS better at testing that because I doubt I'll be good at it and why I never bother testing it or likely ever will.

Are you seeing something I'm not that would cause concern as to the topic of this thread which was alkalinity and calcium?

Wish I had that pH

I don’t see any issues with the op’s number and I would start all for reef at any time… it takes time to adjust it anyways. I use kalk in my top off and always have that’s why my calcium runs high and my alk was getting elevated but it doesn’t concern me… I also dose all for reef and just backed down on the dosage myself till my alk stops climbing… as for that ph lol…. I have struggled with this tank since I set it up a year ago to keep my ph above 8 even with kalk top off and my skimmer line ran outside! About 4 months ago my tank exploded with growth finally and my corals are growing like crazy and every day I watched my ph climb higher and higher! The increased coral growth has taken the excesses c02 out of my water column and allowed my ph to rise and my corals to grow even faster! Get more corals in your tank and get them growing it will rise up! Mine ranges from 8.15 to 8.4 now….

 

[dolpator]

I don't change water yet that's my first thought but it seems he's already out of danger.

Yea we did a large water change already. Reason why I am wehre I am

Alk can be easily dropped with acid. Calcium test aren't pinpoint accurate and as such according to Randy 500 isn't a concern. Life will reduce that. Mag seems low but then how accurate are those test?

Like I stated. For me. Alk above 11 gets me concerned. Not sweating calcium of 500 and we hadn't discussed mag and not an area I'm overly knowledgeable in beyond triple calcium being my standard. I'm going to just add based on Randy's recommendation. Hopefully ICP-MS better at testing that because I doubt I'll be good at it and why I never bother testing it or likely ever will.

Are you seeing something I'm not that would cause concern as to the topic of this thread which was alkalinity and calcium?

Wish I had that pH

I have a problem with PH as well. I made a make shift C02 Scrubber that is working great keeps PH at 8.3, I understood that it is yet another medial that I will have to replace every few weeks, but without it my ph is typically 7.9-8. It was suggested to run a tube from the intake of my reactor to the top of the skimmer cup. I am not sure what this does but it is supposed to be a recirculating C02 Scrubber and the media will last longer...

 

[GARRIGA]

I don’t see any issues with the op’s number and I would start all for reef at any time… it takes time to adjust it anyways. I use kalk in my top off and always have that’s why my calcium runs high and my alk was getting elevated but it doesn’t concern me… I also dose all for reef and just backed down on the dosage myself till my alk stops climbing… as for that ph lol…. I have struggled with this tank since I set it up a year ago to keep my ph above 8 even with kalk top off and my skimmer line ran outside! About 4 months ago my tank exploded with growth finally and my corals are growing like crazy and every day I watched my ph climb higher and higher! The increased coral growth has taken the excesses c02 out of my water column and allowed my ph to rise and my corals to grow even faster! Get more corals in your tank and get them growing it will rise up! Mine ranges from 8.15 to 8.4 now….

I'm at the next level of testing before designing my main as well as grow out. Plan is to dose AFR based on calcium since alkalinity lags and appears to be directly taken up by photosynthetic inverts. I'm literally not going to worry about alkalinity unless life shows distress since I'll be either dosing carbon or running a Fuge to return base lost during nitrification. I'm expecting life to consume alkalinity 1:1 to calcium same as it is being dosed. AFR based off calcium therefore ICP-MS will inform me if that's off and I might or might not adjust it. Same testing will tell me if I need any addition of any particular trace. Iron testing to dose ChaetoGro since that Fuge will dent some of my trace. At least that's the plan. I'll adjust as time goes.

Was thinking about supplementing with Kalk but as the OP realized, one slip up and it could be a concern. I'm considering calcium nitrate to increase alkalinity plus Part C based on the calcium added to balance my ions. At least based on how I understand that and I'm not a chemist or inclined to be one and my area of weakness which is odd being I want to keep a reef. It is what it is. I'm also not one to get bogged down with the details. Holistic thinker and how I do everything including work.

Not wanting to do water changes means that sodium chloride solutions just going to create a side affect that although simple enough to resolve not something I want to deal with. Prevention better than cure approach.

 

[GARRIGA]

Yea we did a large water change already. Reason why I am wehre I am

I have a problem with PH as well. I made a make shift C02 Scrubber that is working great keeps PH at 8.3, I understood that it is yet another medial that I will have to replace every few weeks, but without it my ph is typically 7.9-8. It was suggested to run a tube from the intake of my reactor to the top of the skimmer cup. I am not sure what this does but it is supposed to be a recirculating C02 Scrubber and the media will last longer...

No experience with scrubbing co2 but if you're getting improvement then I'd try recirculating it. Logically speaking. Should increase longevity of media and in the end. Replicating the sea going to need some gadget or media.

Wasn't implying you needed a WC. Just mentioning that's the first thought I had which is odd considering my approach to that. Those who know me know a bucket not in my plans.

My house co2 too high beyond using a Fuge or adding an ERV and latter being best solution but at the moment not feasible. Have you considered an ERV? Likely never getting a return on investment vs that media but will also make air better for human inhabitants. As it I'm lucky to see 8.2 and hover around 8.1 which probably just fine. Stability likely more of a concern then some ideal setting I'm not willing to jump through too many hoops to achieve.

 

[dolpator]

No experience with scrubbing co2 but if you're getting improvement then I'd try recirculating it. Logically speaking. Should increase longevity of media and in the end. Replicating the sea going to need some gadget or media.

Wasn't implying you needed a WC. Just mentioning that's the first thought I had which is odd considering my approach to that. Those who know me know a bucket not in my plans.

My house co2 too high beyond using a Fuge or adding an ERV and latter being best solution but at the moment not feasible. Have you considered an ERV? Likely never getting a return on investment vs that media but will also make air better for human inhabitants. As it I'm lucky to see 8.2 and hover around 8.1 which probably just fine. Stability likely more of a concern then some ideal setting I'm not willing to jump through too many hoops to achieve.

Nope we have so many things working on this house I do not know if and ERV would be in our budget, especially if I went to the Financial Officer and tried to convince her we needed one. She is not fond of the fish tank, and calls is a money pit. Which we all basically know is true, but my love of the ocean keeps me pressing on, despite her disdain for it. I was more replying to the other one. We did a 30 gallon water change on the system a week ago. Trying to get numbers down. We lost some acros throughout this whole process, which I was not happy with, but it was lessons learned. Now that things have simmered down, I want to get to a more simplistic system in place, which is why I was leaning towards TM AFR. I was also contemplating Red Seas new Dosing system as well. Just not in my budget to do so... I will do some research on recirculating C02 Scrubbing. If it is as simple as placing a tube in to my skimmer cup and it prolongs the life of the media, kind of a no brainer. I have been consistently in the 8.3 - 8.4 range this week alone. So seems like the right step to take in that regard.

Anyone dosing AFR are you dosing your ml one time a day or dosing several times a day??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I really want my calcium lower, alk will probably be where I want it by the end of the week..

You said in the first post it was 463 ppm. There is no detectable difference between reef tanks anywhere in the range of 400-550 ppm.

I recommend just starting AFR and dose based on alk need.

Overcomplicating things by trying to exactly nail down calcium levels will just be frustrating.

 

[dolpator]

You said in the first post it was 463 ppm. There is no detectable difference between reef tanks anywhere in the range of 400-550 ppm.

I recommend just starting AFR and dose based on alk need.

Overcomplicating things by trying to exactly nail down calcium levels will just be frustrating.

I agree. I was implying that I have read in other forums on Calcium rising over time using AFR. Just wondered if it was more realistic to lower this to a base number like 400 and start from scratch. I will be dosing based on ALK, always have always will. Alk is the problem child, keep him in check period....

 

[JustAnotherNanoTank]

As said by many, just start AFR.

 

[Troylee]

I'm at the next level of testing before designing my main as well as grow out. Plan is to dose AFR based on calcium since alkalinity lags and appears to be directly taken up by photosynthetic inverts. I'm literally not going to worry about alkalinity unless life shows distress since I'll be either dosing carbon or running a Fuge to return base lost during nitrification. I'm expecting life to consume alkalinity 1:1 to calcium same as it is being dosed. AFR magnesium based off calcium therefore ICP-MS will inform me if that's off and I might or might not adjust it. Same testing will tell me if I need any addition of any particular trace. Iron testing to dose ChaetoGro since that Fuge will dent some of my trace. At least that's the plan. I'll adjust as time goes.

Was thinking about supplementing with Kalk but as the OP realized, one slip up and it could be a concern. I'm considering calcium nitrate to increase alkalinity plus Part C based on the calcium added to balance my ions. At least based on how I understand that and I'm not a chemist or inclined to be one and my area of weakness which is odd being I want to keep a reef. It is what it is. I'm also not one to get bogged down with the details. Holistic thinker and how I do everything including work.

Not wanting to do water changes means that sodium chloride solutions just going to create a side affect that although simple enough to resolve not something I want to deal with. Prevention better than cure approach.

I advise against testing solely off calcium! I don’t even care what my calcium is haha! Test alk and watch alk! Randy preaches this all the time even thou Red Sea and tropic marine say to test off calcium sigh….