Treating ICH in a display (reef tank)?

[Vyper]

I tried the peroxide treatment in my display for almost 3 weeks with no luck. I switched to poly medic (peroxide salt) the last 10 days with no luck and a few fish died. The only two left are in copper quarantine and doing great so far. I really wish the peroxide trick worked but no such luck for me. I won’t even risk it if it happens again and will just quarantine instead.

 

[gideon2086]

Good news and bad.

The bad - Royal Gramma perished before I left for my business trip on Monday.

The good - I came home today to a happy tank. No other fish have perished, The ich is no longer visible. In the two hours or so I stared at the tank I saw none of the fish rubbing against the sand, rock or GSP garden that I have - something they were doing frequently just last weekend.

I have no way of knowing what pushed the Ich back because I took multiple approaches. I dosed Metroplex with focus and food, I used Paraguard, turned my UV back on (likely savior here) and added three cleaner shrimp (I know, I know; they can't get to the Ich parasite, but the fish literally lined up for these shrimp for hours to be cleaned).

Either way, I know the ICH isn't gone and is instead managed, but I'm happy that everyone is alive and well.

 

[ScottB]

Just muddling through my third round with ich in 10 years. Lost 2 fish out of 15, my Kleins and a mandarin. PBT is still not totally through it yet but has started eating again. He looked pretty bad for a while. No idea what kicked this round off, but guess it came in again with the anthias. The tank has never been fallow (it is an acro tank) but haven't had an outbreak since 2017-2018 or so when I lost 2-3 fish.

I fired up the UV, vacuumed the sand a few times, and dosed Polyp Labs peroxide salts for 3 weeks. Hate this part of the hobby.

 

[Vyper]

Just muddling through my third round with ich in 10 years. Lost 2 fish out of 15, my Kleins and a mandarin. PBT is still not totally through it yet but has started eating again. He looked pretty bad for a while. No idea what kicked this round off, but guess it came in again with the anthias. The tank has never been fallow (it is an acro tank) but haven't had an outbreak since 2017-2018 or so when I lost 2-3 fish.

I fired up the UV, vacuumed the sand a few times, and dosed Polyp Labs peroxide salts for 3 weeks. Hate this part of the hobby.

I am with you there. I am hoping for It to be gone for good after this fallow period. I will start quarantining my own fish after this in an effort to avoid this issue.

 

[gideon2086]

Revitalizing this. Got my hopes up too early. Three fish are now dead. I'm confident that is velvet and not ich. Is this treatable in the tank? I will not be able to catch all of these fish.

 

[carbasaurus]

Well I was going to recommend DR G’s chloroquine medicated caviar again but when I went to research where it’s available I came across an FDA warning letter regarding legality of marketing the food/medication combination. A lot of legal jumbo jumbo in the letter, but short answer is it may not be available for purchase at present. It’s a shame because I have had success with this in the past

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Well I was going to recommend DR G’s chloroquine medicated caviar again but when I went to research where it’s available I came across an FDA warning letter regarding legality of marketing the food/medication combination. A lot of legal jumbo jumbo in the letter, but short answer is it may not be available for purchase at present. It’s a shame because I have had success with this in the past

Do you have a link to that? I remember seeing a cease and desist letter for selling chloroquine, but that didn’t mention medicated food.
Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Revitalizing this. Got my hopes up too early. Three fish are now dead. I'm confident that is velvet and not ich. Is this treatable in the tank? I will not be able to catch all of these fish.

Velvet is much rarer than ich, the main symptom is rapid breathing and rapid death. Spots, if seen at all, are very tiny. Advanced cases of ich is often confused with velvet. I’ve never had good luck treating for either in tanks with invertebrates present. I hate to be pessimistic, but once you’ve seen fish loss, even moving the remaining fish to a QT with copper doesn’t always work, as copper can take 3 days to start to work.
Jay

 

[carbasaurus]

Do you have a link to that? I remember seeing a cease and desist letter for selling chloroquine, but that didn’t mention medicated food.
Jay

I just googled Dr G’s medicated caviar and it came up. It was dated April 15, 2020

Do you have a link to that? I remember seeing a cease and desist letter for selling chloroquine, but that didn’t mention medicated food.
Jay

Do you have a link to that? I remember seeing a cease and desist letter for selling chloroquine, but that didn’t mention medicated food.
Jay

https://www.fda.gov>warning-letters
The letter is labeled: MARCS-CMS 606979

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I just googled Dr G’s medicated caviar and it came up. It was dated April 15, 2020


https://www.fda.gov>warning-letters
The letter is labeled: MARCS-CMS 606979

Thanks. That letter is similar, but longer, than the letters I saw for people selling chloroquine by itself, probably due to their mixing it with food.

This all came about after those people in Texas took aquarium chloroquine to "treat" Covid. One person died I think.

Jay

 

[carbasaurus]

Thanks. That letter is similar, but longer, than the letters I saw for people selling chloroquine by itself, probably due to their mixing it with food.

This all came about after those people in Texas took aquarium chloroquine to "treat" Covid. One person died I think.

Jay

The timing of the letter suggests that’s true. It’s hard to tell if they fixed the problem but when I find sites advertising it they say “out of stock”. I have an expired bottle in the fridge that I need to dump. Was waiting till I got a new one to replace it as I like to have some on hand. Fortunately no outbreaks in my tanks and no new fish in the DTs for some time

 

[Vyper]

Never decide it is to late. I waited until I lost a few because I couldn’t catch without stressing them out to much and i tried to do ich management and even with the best equipment failed at that. I drained my 200 gallon display down to just a few inches of water making it easy to catch last 4. I lost 2 the first day due to ammonia spike in quarantine and quickly shifted to 50% daily water changes to keep it under control. I have successfully saved 2 fish. A yellow tang and powder brown tang. I am certain I would have lost them all if I wouldnt have acted. My pbt was already breathing hard and thought for sure I acted to late but was completely wrong and saved him. I am looking at this as a learning situation to hopefully prevent future outbreaks and if I fail at that I know what to do much sooner and how to do it so I hopefully don’t lose anymore fish needlessly. Jay has been a huge help and appreciate the time he has taken to help all of us in this hobby!

 

[gideon2086]

Velvet is much rarer than ich, the main symptom is rapid breathing and rapid death. Spots, if seen at all, are very tiny. Advanced cases of ich is often confused with velvet. I’ve never had good luck treating for either in tanks with invertebrates present. I hate to be pessimistic, but once you’ve seen fish loss, even moving the remaining fish to a QT with copper doesn’t always work, as copper can take 3 days to start to work.
Jay

It's almost certainly velvet. Many, many very small spots on the fish. Loss of color. Some are swimming into the flow of the wavemakers. What is odd is that the Parashield actually seems to work. Everything seemed OK when I came back from the business trip, but then two fish suddenly died and I noticed what was clearly velvet on the powder brown tang. The tang was on the verge of death.. it was clear he had almost no energy left. I dosed the Parashield again as a last-ditch resort and by the next day, the tang looked almost completely cured. The spots are still there, but his color returned and he's acting normal. All other fish seemed to become more lively as well. I've only been able to catch one clown and he is in a QT with copper, but the others are just too fast. The second I get a net in the water they're behind rocks. With that said... all of the fish are FEROCIOUSLY eating. I don't know what to do at this point.. the Parashield seems to actually be a delay of the ineveitable. I'm going to do the third dose tomorrow.. and then wait it out a week and see what happens. I cannot catch these dang fish..

 

[Vyper]

In the end my kole tang was the same way. Pale trying to get relief from power heads, spots to many to count and heavy breathing. If I hadn’t watched it from the beginning for over a month I would have thought velvet. Everything I read says velvet is swift. This was anything but swift. I had many times I thought oh the tides are turning and everyone looks better until the next batch hatched and hit them even harder. when the weakest fell it seemed whoever was the next weakest would get hit harder. Once ich has gotten to such levels it seems relentless. They would clear up late morning and start looking great until just before dark it was like hoards of the ich attacking. That is why you are supposed to time the peroxide salts at certain times. In an effort to try and kill them before they made it to the fish. I got good at the timing but never really seemed to have an effect. My kole was going back and forth from pale to colorful and back to pale again and then stopped eating. It was over for her at that time. I couldn’t catch her either and sped her demise up trying to net her for so long. Draing my tank was the only way to catch the last of the survivors without stressing them to much. No where to go with out water.

 

[Vyper]

I really hope you are right and it’s helping but may be between hatches

 

[ScottB]

It has been a month now watching my 3 yr old powder blue struggle. So many white spots. Maybe eats something every third feeding. Swimming into a soft back tank gyre flow. Hates the lights.

All the other fish are seemingly well. Painful.

 

[Goaway]

It has been a month now watching my 3 yr old powder blue struggle. So many white spots. Maybe eats something every third feeding. Swimming into a soft back tank gyre flow. Hates the lights.

All the other fish are seemingly well. Painful.

Definitely sounds like velvet. Velvet is partially photosynthetic.

 

[brandon429]

this is perhaps the best thread a new cycler could possibly read. there are no instances of a failed cycle we can find/awaiting one (the claim is they're 100% misreading tests) but there are uncountable testimonies of fish disease in tanks under 8 mos old, or in matured tanks where new entrants bring in a challenge. I like this thread because its not trying to convince anyone to take actions we can't source out in thousands of disease control attempt work threads. its not that qt and fallow is perfect, its that its the best science we have in June of 2021 and its part of thousands of work threads that have forwarded a statistically significant control compared to no preps. by a landslide. it doesnt mean its without losses and imperfections, this is a tough hobby when fish are involved.


this topic is 100% more important to new cyclers than coaxing ammonia and nitrite into compliance on an api kit, those will handle themselves with any bottle bac we add says the lack of counter examples we can find among a million posted cycling reefs/with fish etc. this thread best addresses today's post trending regarding reef tank startup and impact likelihood

 

[ScottB]

Definitely sounds like velvet. Velvet is partially photosynthetic.

But I thought velvet would wipe out the fish rapidly. It does seem like too many spots for it to be ich.

 

[Goaway]

But I thought velvet would wipe out the fish rapidly. It does seem like too many spots for it to be ich.

The thing is, it can. The only way I ever fought it off well, was lack of light. I don't remember the name of the medicine I used. It was years ago. But it's banned now. I would do fw dips ever other day. I don't know if fish hiding from the light helps reduce the production of velvet. It seems to delay it however.