Torch not looking so hot, bleaching tentacles

[JoJosReef]

How did you measure the salt? You mixed according to the directions on the container for 1.026sg? What are you using to measure salinity?

Why all the water changes? You are shooting yourself in the foot with the nutrient bottoming out problems with all the water changes. Don't forget even the best test kits have a margin of error so NO3 around 4 is pretty close to zero and could likely be zero. Also when are you sampling water for testing? In the morning before any feeding? When do you typically feed?

I don't see BJD. I see tissue lose around the outside of the skeleton on the octo, torch and the hammer. The hammer is also losing tissue on the top of the big ribs. Not a good sign. I think they are starving...

I would be looking to bump Alk and shoot for 8 range. 7 is too low and 7.5 doesn't leave much margin for error. I use AFR also but often have to bump Alk a little each week with some baking soda. I add a couple teaspoons to a 5 gallon bucket of ATO water. I think your alk and your nutrients are bouncing all over the place and the LPS are very unhappy. Bumping your NO3 and PO4 with supplements is ok but feeding more is better in my opinion. The LPS like to catch bits of food. Most of what you have listed are small particles. I would be feeding them chopped mysis and LPS pellets. They can also be a bit slow to eat, particularly the hammer and Octo. Turn off the pumps for 20-30 minutes.

Good questions. Will try to answer all:
1. According to instructions in a 5 gal Seachem carboy with heater and small powerhead running. I leave it mixing overnight and test in the AM.
2. Sg measured by refractometer (from amazon) zeroed every time with RODI. Have a second one to periodically check accuracy.
3. I don't do frequent water changes. I let the rocks, bacteria and macro (Botrycladia, codium and pom pom gracilaria) do most of the work plus carbon and filter floss. I typically do water changes during larger maintenance (~monthly) or when something looks off. Right now I am planning more frequent water changes because I am transitioning from HW salt to Fritz. The HW has been super low ALK and super high Mg, so I think it's past due for bew salt.
4. NO3 I trust to be at least a bit above zero--I've tested with both Red Sea and Salifert in parallel. PO4 only Salifert and I don't like that test. It could very well be zero. Hanna coming from Santa.
5. I test mid to late morning before feeding. Feeding usually 1-2pmish.

I'm afraid the LPS are doing poorly because of the swinging parameters (ALK, Ca and Mg) and lowering nutrients. It looks like my go-to Red Sea Alk test is way off after testing new Fritz salt. It has probably been slowly going down and I didn't notice, which means I've been dosing more AFR than necessary.

For feeding, I already dump a lot into the tank. I think it's just an efficient biome. Macro, lots of filter feeders corals (until recently growing well). Will look into varying the mix!

Thanks! I am going to see if I can turn these LPS around. Tomorrow new test kits, and aim on stability.

 

[Shirak]

Which HW salt? I use HW marinemix reefer salt. I haven't noticed super low alk and super high Mg. Seems to mix according to the parameters listed. I run 8.5DKH and 1.026-1.027sg salinity. I originally used TM salt but found the alk too low. The HW MMix Reefer salt was right in line with my target. Are you using one of their other salts?

I do find the AFR requires some monitoring as it is not a perfect replacement for 2 part. I find in my systems even with Ca around 500-550 and Mg around 1450-1500 the alk slowly drops and requires some bumping up every few days. Somewhere to the tune of .5dkh over the course of a week if I am not watching it. Adding some sodium bicarbonate to the top up water helps keep it somewhat stable but I still need to keep an eye on it and adjust as necessary.

Inexpensive brine refractometers from Amazon can not be calibrated with RODI. They will read salt water incorrectly. Best thing is to make some DIY calibration fluid using @Randy Holmes-Farley recipe. You can find it here. Make sure you follow the recipe for refractometers. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.htm

It's possible your macro algae are sucking all the nutrients and you need to keep them trimmed more. They could strip the water of all the dissolved nutrients and minerals the coral zooxanthellae also need and are probably more effective at it. Looks like some good coralline algae growth too which will suck up a lot of nutrients, carbonate and minerals also.

I have a refugium on my DT and it's capable of pulling way too much nutrients out of the water if it gets overgrown. So I feed heavily every day. The AFR and CaRx and Trident keep alk and all the other elements in check where I want without much intervention. Trying to find the sweet spot between food going into the system and uptake by algae and coral in the tank, the skimmer, the roller mat, and the refugium can be a nightmare!

 

[JoJosReef]

Which HW salt? I use HW marinemix reefer salt. I haven't noticed super low alk and super high Mg. Seems to mix according to the parameters listed. I run 8.5DKH and 1.026-1.027sg salinity. I originally used TM salt but found the alk too low. The HW MMix Reefer salt was right in line with my target. Are you using one of their other salts?

I do find the AFR requires some monitoring as it is not a perfect replacement for 2 part. I find in my systems even with Ca around 500-550 and Mg around 1450-1500 the alk slowly drops and requires some bumping up every few days. Somewhere to the tune of .5dkh over the course of a week if I am not watching it. Adding some sodium bicarbonate to the top up water helps keep it somewhat stable but I still need to keep an eye on it and adjust as necessary.

Inexpensive brine refractometers from Amazon can not be calibrated with RODI. They will read salt water incorrectly. Best thing is to make some DIY calibration fluid using @Randy Holmes-Farley recipe. You can find it here. Make sure you follow the recipe for refractometers. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.htm

It's possible your macro algae are sucking all the nutrients and you need to keep them trimmed more. They could strip the water of all the dissolved nutrients and minerals the coral zooxanthellae also need and are probably more effective at it. Looks like some good coralline algae growth too which will suck up a lot of nutrients, carbonate and minerals also.

I have a refugium on my DT and it's capable of pulling way too much nutrients out of the water if it gets overgrown. So I feed heavily every day. The AFR and CaRx and Trident keep alk and all the other elements in check where I want without much intervention. Trying to find the sweet spot between food going into the system and uptake by algae and coral in the tank, the skimmer, the roller mat, and the refugium can be a nightmare!

Same salt, just a really off batch. I've read others who complained of a low Alk batch too. Tested it with both Red Sea and Salifert multiple times and multiple batches. Almost exact amount of estimated salt to RODI read at 1.026, so I imagine not very far of mark.

I like the easy it mixes, just got a bad batch I think, now trying Fritz, since parameters are meant to be similar.

 

[JoJosReef]

So, looks like it wasn't a problem with my Red Sea test kit.

I just got a brand new Salifert ALK test kit in today and started with the tank and then the newly mixed Fritz saltwater.

First, the QC report for the lot of Fritz that I have showed ALK 8.95, MAG 1305, CAL 410. My new reading of ALK on that water at 1.026sg is 5.7dKh.

My tank currently reads 7dKh and the euphyllia remain unhappy.

There must be something going on with my RODI water. The RODI buddy unit has been reading 0-1 TDS for a while now. The DI resin just turned the color indicated for a change, and I have the replacement ready. Will be changing out filters in the RODI unit and starting over today... This is all very weird.

 

[Shirak]

I think you need to look into your refractometer. RODI is not the correct way to calibrate most of the inexpensive models available on the internet. An incorrect reading on your salinity will cause the other parameters such as alk, Ca, Mg etc to be off.

I suggest reading this thread:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/what-calibration-fluid-to-buy-for-refractometer.835974/

 

[JoJosReef]

I think you need to look into your refractometer. RODI is not the correct way to calibrate most of the inexpensive models available on the internet. An incorrect reading on your salinity will cause the other parameters such as alk, Ca, Mg etc to be off.

I suggest reading this thread:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/what-calibration-fluid-to-buy-for-refractometer.835974/

Read through it, which was very helpful.

Made a standard with lab grade NaCl and ultrapure water (I work in a lab) at 35ppt. Refractometer was off by 0.002 (1.028sg), and the tank water is currently at 1.024sg. Not horribly off, but perhaps some erroneous fluctuation.

Doesn't explain why the salt mixes are coming in at such low ALK. Will be checking new RODI with new filters today. In the meantime, adjusting with baking soda in the 5gal carboy to get to 8dKh and will start working on the tank slowly. New saltwater is now reading at 1.025sg after calibrating.

I'm going to make a post in water chem and tag you to get some ideas on what's affecting the ALK.

Thanks!

 

[Shirak]

Glad you got the salinity double checked and have some standard to check against. I would consider bumping to 1.026 or even 1.027sg salinity. A few points could make a noticeable difference in the Alk and Ca etc. Might explain some of the Alk issues but perhaps not all with the fresh mixed salt water. Maybe your water has CO2 in it?

Are you seeing any sort of precipitate in the fresh mixed salt? I mix mine for about 30 minutes with a pump and no heater. If I let it sit for a few days there is a little white precipitate so probably losing some Alk and Ca.

Some of it could be the test kits? Do you mix the bucket/bag of dry salt well before opening?

 

[JoJosReef]

Glad you got the salinity double checked and have some standard to check against. I would consider bumping to 1.026 or even 1.027sg salinity. A few points could make a noticeable difference in the Alk and Ca etc. Might explain some of the Alk issues but perhaps not all with the fresh mixed salt water. Maybe your water has CO2 in it?

Are you seeing any sort of precipitate in the fresh mixed salt? I mix mine for about 30 minutes with a pump and no heater. If I let it sit for a few days there is a little white precipitate so probably losing some Alk and Ca.

Some of it could be the test kits? Do you mix the bucket/bag of dry salt well before opening?

After mixing for the first time with ~2.5cup of a bag of Fritz blue, I noticed precipitate on both the powerhead and the heater. Never had that with the HW salt. Doesn't look like much precipitate on the bottom/sides of the carboy, though. Some, but not a lot.

Might that be part of the problem?

 

[JoJosReef]

Good news is everything seemed to survive the weekend, and the hammer and octo are puffing up again:

Torch is still bleached, but hasn't bailed yet. Will try to nurse it back.

Parameters today:
ALK: 8.3-8.6 (Salifert, a couple of hours after adding 1mL AFR--this is really good considering I almost never broke 8.0 with previous HW salt, which also may be have incorrect salinity)
NO3: Solid 5ppm (Red Sea)
PO4: Back in detectable range, 0.1-0.25ppm (Salifert)

I think the change in salt and the calibration on the refractometer have been a general improvement.

Other notes: keeping the Macro trimmed to a manageable level may be key to keeping the NO3/PO4 up. I will be working with levels of growth for each to dial in the levels: Codium, Botrycladia and Pom Pom Gracilaria.

 

[One Reefing Boi]

Hey bud, any updates! Torch pull through?

 

[JoJosReef]

Hey bud, any updates! Torch pull through?

Good question! I gave the torch to a more experienced reefer in the area. Hammer and octospawn are doing great. Will have to find out if the torch bounced back.