Top ten reasons you should NOT dose a new cycling tank to 2 ppm ammonia

[Lost in the Sauce]

well said Steve. agreed that's a point to improve upon. I can't really quote him though bc I asked for legit exampling and felt I was getting trolled out the door with no links, being specific in exchanges during debates also is handy when both parties apply that process.

*missing out on someone's unique 40 year experience is a risk though in discounting anything not backed by links or recent practice, Ill need to find the happy medium. You represented his experiences very well I thought.

B.. you've already made mention here that you'll ignore people with whom you disagree.

How do you expect to have any meaningful discussion in such a vacuum?

I'm fairly certain that is a working definition of confirmation bias.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

well said Steve. agreed that's a point to improve upon. I can't really quote him though bc I asked for legit exampling and felt I was getting trolled out the door with no links, being specific in exchanges during debates also is handy when both parties apply that process.

*missing out on someone's unique 40 year experience is a risk though in discounting anything not backed by links or recent practice, Ill need to find the happy medium. You represented his experiences very well I thought.

I keep all of my tank start ups in note books that I named "Fish Tank XXXXX Logs". I am old and that is just how I do things. My links would be to pics of a pic of said notebooks lol.

 

[brandon429]

Steve you have never posted in any of my threads in an insincere manner, not trying to forward the hobby, pass = earned. any posts or summaries you want to offer / accepted in full based on a solid post and sincerity history. you handle cycling debates with poise, lucky to have your posting.


plus, in the thread about most helpful reefers you scored uber over and over. others really value your input.

 

[GARRIGA]

and now I step out of the shadows.

Here is the post by @GARRIGA



I do not interpret this as anything being in compliance. I take it as one is checking to see the process as a whole. @GARRIGA explicitly stated that nitrate has never been zero. Wouldn't a full cycle in most peoples book mean this has to be at 0? If ammonia is 0, then it got converted to nitrites. If nitrites are 0, then it got converted to Nitrates. If so one would assume a full cycle is Nitrates at 0. That is the complete nitrogen cycle, is it not? Basically, it all ends with nitrogen gas escaping the tank, then begins again when fish poo or you feed them.

It was also explicitly stated that nitrite is being used to gauge ammonia consumption, not in those exact words, but you get my drift.

Another person on this forum that has done SW setups for a long time, I am not dragging them into this, also does the same thing in regards to using nitrite to see how things are progressing.

I also do the same thing in tanks I setup, in regards to testing nitrite to see how things are coming along.

What I am getting at here, is that some things work for others just fine. They do not need to be discredited, thrown out the window or be re-quoted without a quote to that exact comment. This then leads to misinformation being tossed around.

If you are wanting to debate a specific point of view, simply hit the quote button for that comment and begin the debate.

In all reality, it is very simple. there are many ways to skin a cat, so lets hear those ways and not discredit those ways that all end up at the same result.

Also, I can provide tons of data on dry rock starts and success with them using my method. This also includes heavy stocking of delicate nems and large fish. Do I have the time for it, I do not. I just know for me, my way works and. I will keep doing it my way until it does not work.

Only way to get nitrate to zero is to feed sparingly enough to allow denitrification to completely convert it. I feed 3-4 times daily most days. I’ll never see zero and want it that way. Same with phosphates. Keep it under 1 ppm but preferably under 0.25 ppm.

As far as I’m concerned. Fact I don’t perform water changes means I have a complete cycle. My filtration is keeping nutrients in check but not bottoming out. Don’t use sump or skimmer. No nutrient export other than changing out filter floss and no water changes or GFO or any chemical treatments outside of occasionally adding NoPox and NeoPhos when I tinker and get things out of what. Last tinker sent my nitrates to 40 ppm. Adding NeoPhos likely why I had a GHA outbreak yet that went away. Now I just have green algae rocks but have blacked it out since Sunday and fed once daily. Will test tomorrow. Might find out nitrates bottomed out. I’ll just feed heavily again. Problem solved. I’ll try not to tinker but this is a test tank so that lady promise likely not

 

[brandon429]

Garriga if you'd like to post a picture of your reef we'd value it.

nobody judges some algae on the rocks, that's what every reef dive in nature looks like/the zero algae look is unnatural and something we strive for that's a bit abnormal compared to any common actual reef dive.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Only way to get nitrate to zero is to feed sparingly enough to allow denitrification to completely convert it. I feed 3-4 times daily most days. I’ll never see zero and want it that way. Same with phosphates. Keep it under 1 ppm but preferably under 0.25 ppm.

As far as I’m concerned. Fact I don’t perform water changes means I have a complete cycle. My filtration is keeping nutrients in check but not bottoming out. Don’t use sump or skimmer. No nutrient export other than changing out filter floss and no water changes or GFO or any chemical treatments outside of occasionally adding NoPox and NeoPhos when I tinker and get things out of what. Last tinker sent my nitrates to 40 ppm. Adding NeoPhos likely why I had a GHA outbreak yet that went away. Now I just have green algae rocks but have blacked it out since Sunday and fed once daily. Will test tomorrow. Might find out nitrates bottomed out. I’ll just feed heavily again. Problem solved. I’ll try not to tinker but this is a test tank so that lady promise likely not

I am in the same boat with wanting nitrates not to be 0. My corals, nems and macro need food. I do skim, and do AWCs, but I also have a ton of fish, import very heavy and basically make my tanks sewer water when feeding lol. So for my tanks, heavy export is required.

But what I love about this hobby is that no 2 tanks are alike and all kinds of ways work for our glass box ecosystems. Yet at the end of the day, we can still share experiences and one experience may help someone else who has a similar tank to our tanks. The trick to this is we have to be accepting of others methods.

 

[brandon429]

@HomebroodExotics

regarding the first decent public discourse we've had in 19 months I'ma need some deeper though on that follow up answer. I provided you a direct link of several tanks using skip cycle means that directly match skip cycle setups from reef conventions

and asked you about expiry dates, can you please give a legitimate, nonveiled, interested in discussion feedback on my legit efforts to answer your question

again, here it is for your inspection and to message any entrant and ask them if their stuff expired.

A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

This is a testless cycling thread, we don't want ammonia testing here for any job if possible, because we are teaching reefers/readers that moving live rocks system to system does not restart the cycle: many in our community don't understand that rule and feel that any tank being setup simply...

www.reef2reef.com

also valid responses and thought channels: if that doesn't directly match how they set up convention cycles, what does/can you link it for us compare and contrast

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Only way to get nitrate to zero is to feed sparingly enough to allow denitrification to completely convert it. I feed 3-4 times daily most days. I’ll never see zero and want it that way. Same with phosphates. Keep it under 1 ppm but preferably under 0.25 ppm.

As far as I’m concerned. Fact I don’t perform water changes means I have a complete cycle. My filtration is keeping nutrients in check but not bottoming out. Don’t use sump or skimmer. No nutrient export other than changing out filter floss and no water changes or GFO or any chemical treatments outside of occasionally adding NoPox and NeoPhos when I tinker and get things out of what. Last tinker sent my nitrates to 40 ppm. Adding NeoPhos likely why I had a GHA outbreak yet that went away. Now I just have green algae rocks but have blacked it out since Sunday and fed once daily. Will test tomorrow. Might find out nitrates bottomed out. I’ll just feed heavily again. Problem solved. I’ll try not to tinker but this is a test tank so that lady promise likely not

@HomebroodExotics

regarding the first decent public discourse we've had in 19 months I'ma need some deeper though on that follow up answer. I provided you a direct link of several tanks using skip cycle means that directly match skip cycle setups from reef conventions

and asked you about expiry dates, can you please give a legitimate, nonveiled, interested in discussion feedback on my legit efforts to answer your question

again, here it is for your inspection and to message any entrant and ask them if their stuff expired.

I’m not really sure what you are asking. I don’t believe there is an expiration date or whatever you are talking about.

 

[brandon429]

I thought you were hinting earlier that convention cycles are at some sort of deficit or quality or expiration risk compared to a standard 60 day wait cycle> what did your question from prior page mean

I had positioned a convention skip cycle as 100% legit, doesn't need to be verified, will never starve or get weaker as long as water stays in the system. I gave them no possibility for outs. they are exactly as strong as a bottle bac cycle that can move 4 ppm of ammonia down in 24 hours, over and over.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I’d consider it more of a limit. Like when you hit 88mph you gonna see some stuff.

 

[jda]

I am sure that most know this, but for those who do not, Brandon does not do any of this. He just writes and links. Most of the rest of us have no idea how to start a reef in a moonshine jug or mason jar, so we stay out of that business, but he does not know how to stay out of real reefing. Without any real experience, everything seems like a good idea and stuff when you work off the work of others. Basically, a textbook case of not knowing what he doesn't know... dangerous.

I just want people to enjoy the reefs and if you want to follow this, then cool. I am happy that anybody is happy, but it is important to know what you are following and listening to.

 

[RipVanWinkle]

I appreciate your posts Brandon, if you go on r/aquariums on Reddit 2 out of every 3 posts are noobs confused about cycling, buying all sorts of bacteria starters and other garbage. I think bottled bacteria is a horrible product. Can it work for experienced people who know what they’re doing already? Sure.

But what happens most often? People (noobs) are sold things like this and think they’re good to go immediately or they’ll sit and track their api test kit for weeks and weeks going what is wrong please help me!!

Personally I would never do any route besides straight up live rock, tank is immediately cycled and ready to roll day 1. Everything else seems frivolous, complicated, and lengthy.

 

[brandon429]

Rip thank you. I have yet to venture into Reddits but if I had to guess, they're troll free?



how would this thread do on the aita threads lol

Jda's posting style seems like a great fit, there.

 

[nereefpat]

I thought you were hinting earlier that convention cycles are at some sort of deficit or quality or expiration risk compared to a standard 60 day wait cycle>

I don't think convention tanks are a useful comparison to our tanks.

They can be set up with rock/sand/filters out of an already running system. The cycle already happened in other words.
They can also just be set up and torn down in a day or 2, without any ammonia building up. When I set up my tank transfer method tanks, I use 5-10 gallons of water, and I don't see measurable ammonia (0.25-0.5 ppm) until day 2 or 3. Or who knows, maybe the fish all die on the way home from the convention.

 

[GARRIGA]

Garriga if you'd like to post a picture of your reef we'd value it.

nobody judges some algae on the rocks, that's what every reef dive in nature looks like/the zero algae look is unnatural and something we strive for that's a bit abnormal compared to any common actual reef dive.

Got impatient and flipped the rocks over to expose white again. Coralline algae added. Progress is slow but methodical. First corals likely not added until I either get coralline established or impatience gets the best of me. Latter more likely. Plus I need new lights on a schedule so this doesn’t happen again. Looking at Reef Breeders Proton 16. Can raise it high which serves dual purposes by illuminating inhabitants and my work space. Just need to ensure there’s a full spectrum option. Not a fan of blue tanks. Not seeking neon glow in the dark 80s club black light memories.

 

[brandon429]

thats a neat way of conditioning the rocks thank you for posting. and as someone who has remotely handled a ton of sandbeds below, I can assure you that substrate is unique to this entire board well done. You will literally have pods on the bottom layers and the top, like an ant farm. I really like seeing that.


Jda was just about to post for us some sandbed insights he's directly managed too, but we beat him to it:

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

wait, strike that. he wasn't going to post a single thing/my bad. you can see we encounter just about every sandbed challenge known to man and lady, but that picture of yours above honestly stands out

are those seashells/what is that unique substrate G?

I think that sandbed will not develop sulfide pocketing and nitrate issues, it'll keep the detritus totally oxygenated vs stratified and prone to problems like we see for eight straight years above.

that's a truly unique and customized reef design still maturing, really like it.

potentially, a jar reef in the right hands is decent practice~ at least for sandbed prognostication.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Rip thank you. I have yet to venture into Reddits but if I had to guess, they're troll free?



how would this thread do on the aita threads lol

Jda's posting style seems like a great fit, there.

B...

Reddit is the home of Some of the most vicious and hilarious neck bearded trolls.

I don't have a link so I hope you'll just take my word for it. Reddit is not your place bro.

 

[RipVanWinkle]

Rip thank you. I have yet to venture into Reddits but if I had to guess, they're troll free?



how would this thread do on the aita threads lol

Jda's posting style seems like a great fit, there.

Reddits mostly casual, you will see people being directed here to R2R when ever something serious is trying to be discussed. Not a good platform for anything too meaningful.

 

[GARRIGA]

Got impatient and flipped the rocks over to expose white again. Coralline algae added. Progress is slow but methodical. First corals likely not added until I either get coralline established or impatience gets the best of me. Latter more likely. Plus I need new lights on a schedule so this doesn’t happen again. Looking at Reef Breeders Proton 16. Can raise it high which serves dual purposes by illuminating inhabitants and my work space. Just need to ensure there’s a full spectrum option. Not a fan of blue tanks. Not seeking neon glow in the dark 80s club black light memories.

After flipping the rocks over earlier today. Patients is often needed in this hobby but if you can accelerate the process then why not. Benefits of not having added corals until all kinks worked out. That’s the part of me about being patient. Fingers crossed I don’t see a few mushrooms I must have. For now the wrong light acts as my governor.

 

[RipVanWinkle]

B...

Reddit is the home of Some of the most vicious and hilarious neck bearded trolls.

I don't have a link so I hope you'll just take my word for it. Reddit is not your place bro.

Yeah but not in the reef sub or the general aquarium sub, the general sub is mostly noobs asking about cycling/what is wrong with my fish/people getting told their tank is too small for that fish and people simping for betta fish

the reef sub is mostly tank shots or coral ID