To change ChemiPure Blue or not to change?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Alright, got home from work today and tested just a few moments ago.

NO3 - 14.0ppm
PO4 - .03pp

This is a 5.2ppm drop in nitrate and a .04ppm drop in phosphate after roughly 24 hours since replacing the ChemiPure Blue bag.

Thoughts anyone?

As a side note, I’m testing with Hanna checkers. The Nitrate HR and Phosphate ULR. Vials cleaned with microfiber and the Hanna cuvette cleaning solution.

Values for both vary in time without changing anything, and testing has its variability as well. Since I personally expect it did not do much in that time frame, I’d just keep watching, but it’s also certainly fine to pull it since the values are currently fine.

 

[reefiniteasy]

Values for both vary in time without changing anything, and testing has its variability as well. Since I personally expect it did not do much in that time frame, I’d just keep watching, but it’s also certainly fine to pull it since the values are currently fine.

I’ll leave it and test again tomorrow and report back. If there is a major, significant drop, I’ll probably pull it. As always, thank you!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’ll leave it and test again tomorrow and report back. If there is a major, significant drop, I’ll probably pull it. As always, thank you!

Sounds good. Keep us updated!

 

[reefiniteasy]

And the results are in… two days after replacing the ChemiPure blue bag and my phosphates are at 0.0ppm

NO3 - 17.5ppm
PO4 - 0.0ppm

I know what everyone says, I stand by my claim that ChemiPure Blue removes phosphate. From .07 to 0.0 in 2 days.

I removed the bag and put it back in its container with RODI and put in a bag of just Seachem Matrix Carbon. Will test again tomorrow.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

And the results are in… two days after replacing the ChemiPure blue bag and my phosphates are at 0.0ppm

NO3 - 17.5ppm
PO4 - 0.0ppm

I know what everyone says, I stand by my claim that ChemiPure Blue removes phosphate. From .07 to 0.0 in 2 days.

I removed the bag and put it back in its container with RODI and put in a bag of just Seachem Matrix Carbon. Will test again tomorrow.

Thanks for the update. I do not believe it bound phosphate directly, but removing it is certainly a fine plan.

 

[reefiniteasy]

Thanks for the update. I do not believe it bound phosphate directly, but removing it is certainly a fine plan.

You’re the expert so I’m sure it’s not binding the PO4 directly but I do wonder what is happening. I will test this evening and report back.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You’re the expert so I’m sure it’s not binding the PO4 directly but I do wonder what is happening. I will test this evening and report back.

There are several possible explanations that I can see:

1. I'm wrong for some reason and the product does directly bind phosphate
2. The binding of organics and preventing their breakdown and subsequent release of phosphate caused a phosphate reduction
3. It would have declined anyway.
4. The decline is small and may be test variability/error.

Here's my rationale/discussion for these possibilities:

1. Hard to know why I might be wrong since by definition I do not know it. I have tested many hundreds of other polymers specifically designed to bind phosphate. The great majority of those are not commercially available, but were designed and synthesized by me and my team to optimally bind phosphate. They were not tested in seawater, but a simulated small intestine fluid. I then tested the very best one of those in seawater and found no significant phosphate binding (due to the huge amount of competing chloride and sulfate). That experience makes me think a random ion exchange resin that they bought and put in ChemiPure Blue is unlikely to bind phosphate from seawater. I'd also add that if it was good at binding phosphate, why would they put GFO into a different version of ChemiPure (the Elite)?

2. Binding organics certainly happens, but the fact that nitrate actually rose instead of falling suggests this effect on nitrate and phosphate was minimal in the short time frame used. Most organics that release phosphate on breakdown will also release nitrate.

3. Don't know about what would have happened without the chemipure added, so it's a bit hard to say this would or would not have happened. Others have reported phosphate changing during the course of a day, although that can be hard to distinguish from test variability.

4. This is the most likely, IMO, for this short term drop in phosphate, because the Hanna you used only claims a +/- 0.015 ppm phosphate accuracy range. Thus an observed drop in phosphate from 0.03 to 0.00 ppm with the Hanna phosphate ULR may just reflect a steady value at 0.015 ppm.

Of course, the real cause of this observation might be any combination of some or all of these explanations.

 

[reefiniteasy]

There are several possible explanations that I can see:

1. I'm wrong for some reason and the product does directly bind phosphate
2. The binding of organics and preventing their breakdown and subsequent release of phosphate caused a phosphate reduction
3. It would have declined anyway.
4. The decline is small and may be test variability/error.

Here's my rationale/discussion for these possibilities:

1. Hard to know why I might be wrong since by definition I do not know it. I have tested many hundreds of other polymers specifically designed to bind phosphate. The great majority of those are not commercially available, but were designed and synthesized by me and my team to optimally bind phosphate. They were not tested in seawater, but a simulated small intestine fluid. I then tested the very best one of those in seawater and found no significant phosphate binding (due to the huge amount of competing chloride and sulfate). That experience makes me think a random ion exchange resin that they bought and put in ChemiPure Blue is unlikely to bind phosphate from seawater. I'd also add that if it was good at binding phosphate, why would they put GFO into a different version of ChemiPure (the Elite)?

2. Binding organics certainly happens, but the fact that nitrate actually rose instead of falling suggests this effect on nitrate and phosphate was minimal in the short time frame used. Most organics that release phosphate on breakdown will also release nitrate.

3. Don't know about what would have happened without the chemipure added, so it's a bit hard to say this would or would not have happened. Others have reported phosphate changing during the course of a day, although that can be hard to distinguish from test variability.

4. This is the most likely, IMO, for this short term drop in phosphate, because the Hanna you used only claims a +/- 0.015 ppm phosphate accuracy range. Thus an observed drop in phosphate from 0.03 to 0.00 ppm with the Hanna phosphate ULR may just reflect a steady value at 0.015 ppm.

Of course, the real cause of this observation might be any combination of some or all of these explanations.

The info you pack in here is incredible. Number 4 sounds reasonable. Your line of work sounds fascinating.

Here is more data.

the day after removing the ChemiPure Blue after PO4 hit 0 I measured again:
NO3 - 19.1ppm
PO4 - .03ppm

I just measured, as tomorrow is water change day and got:
NO3 - 23.8ppm
PO4 - .08ppm

For me, the ChemiPure seems to do something, what exactly, I’m not sure.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The info you pack in here is incredible. Number 4 sounds reasonable. Your line of work sounds fascinating.

Here is more data.

the day after removing the ChemiPure Blue after PO4 hit 0 I measured again:
NO3 - 19.1ppm
PO4 - .03ppm

I just measured, as tomorrow is water change day and got:
NO3 - 23.8ppm
PO4 - .08ppm

For me, the ChemiPure seems to do something, what exactly, I’m not sure.

Thanks for the update. when you are ready to put it back in after some more time, a before and after set of values would be interesting!

 

[reefiniteasy]

Completed my water change today and nitrate is at 17.5ppm and phosphate is at 0.0ppm. I find that odd that the tank would go from .08 to 0.0 through a water change alone. I’ve never seen that on my tank. The carbon is still in.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Completed my water change today and nitrate is at 17.5ppm and phosphate is at 0.0ppm. I find that odd that the tank would go from .08 to 0.0 through a water change alone. I’ve never seen that on my tank. The carbon is still in.

I expect the movement is most likely test error, but it may be real. A drop from 0.08 ppm to 0.00 ppm is not, however, due to theh water change.